First time reading the Quran, My impression

a reply to: MstWntd
So I need another book to understand another book that makes a lot sense. Maybe I should try my hand at learning the original language then read the Qur'an. I provided a link to where I read it online it was a Muslim site. I went to a Qur'an that had a lot of hate an biases? I thought the Qur'an has never been changed so how can that be. I gave you the time frame from which I read the first few chapters and that was my first impression. I did put away my hate or else I wouldn't have even read what I did. So having people that love me is mercy from Allah? Maybe it is because I love others back that others love me, it is because of me not Allah. You have to love yourself before you love others.
To get more mercy I might have to be Muslim? Right there is the problem and that is what came across from the chapters I read. As I said in the op I took part of one day to read the chapters I did and it is a legitimate first impression it is not my fault this holy book came across that way. I didn't know you needed a mans book to interpret a book by god.
For frame of reference the god of Abraham, Moses and Jesus is not the same god, it is not Allah. It is according to you/Muslims but to everyone else no it is not.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101
I had to look it up. I read straight through to chapter 5 and I didn't get anything positive from any verses, except if I were muslim I would have Allah's praise and mercy. That is hardly up lifting coming from a non Muslim point of view plus with it being in bullet point form there isn't as you would say a moral to the story, nothing is being taught only told. It is better to be taught than to be told. Give a man a fish he eats for a day teach a man to fish he eats for a life time. So a long list of do's and don'ts don't cut it for me.

originally posted by: celticdog
a reply to: ISeekTruth101
I had to look it up. I read straight through to chapter 5 and I didn't get anything positive from any verses, except if I were muslim I would have Allah's praise and mercy. That is hardly up lifting coming from a non Muslim point of view plus with it being in bullet point form there isn't as you would say a moral to the story, nothing is being taught only told. It is better to be taught than to be told. Give a man a fish he eats for a day teach a man to fish he eats for a life time. So a long list of do's and don'ts don't cut it for me.

Would you want to live in a world without Do's and Don't (Rules)??

You speak about the Quran only containing rules but no teachings... let us assess this assumption of yours celticdog.

There are Do's and Don't all around us, throughout the world. There are rules everywhere you go, for good reason. But do these rules have meanings or teachings attached to them? In most cases they do not.

Why? The entities or people who made the rules and put them in place are not concerned whether the reader understands the reasoning behind the rule or not. They don't care, they know better and a consensus was established to put that rule in place by those who are wise and capable.

There may exist Do's and Don't for your own safety and for the safety of others around you. It us up to you as a human being to find the reasoning behind every rule for yourself. I.e. to teach yourself, to question it, to reach an understanding or enlightenment. Somewhere along the way, you may teach others about what you know or someone might teach you more about the reasoning behind a rule. Either way the rule stays in place unless someone more wise comes along and to improve or contend it.

Rules are present throughout history, and always will be. The reasons are obvious as to why. The Quran is not an infinite repository of knowledge, it is a book. Therein are guidelines complete with examples and context. It can only contain a finite amount of words, yet therein exists a rule for almost everything of consequence in life. Which is more than I can say for any other scripture.


Can you please explain to me your understanding of Zakat (Tax), I am keen to see if you really understood what it's for - from there you can be taught quite a lot. Most of which is common sense, either way it is a rule for good reason, please tell me otherwise.

a reply to: celticdog

You seem to be chasing your tail on this one..

I told you:
A) You didnt have tafseer ibn kathir so you basically read whatever you wanted to read and not what is understood, you basically got the pixel not the picture.
B) Your skills at misquoting the Quran highlighted how well you could have read it and how much attention you were paying to it
C) I clearly said that to receive mercy you dont have to be a Muslim, to receive more mercy you most likely do.

##SNIPPED##

a reply to: ISeekTruth101
There are basic concepts. Even the bible can be brought down to the golden rule. Having too many rules then it becomes burdensome. As for the zakat I would say giving of yourself, materially, time, money. And there you go got me something positive.

Good thread celticdog, I too have been meaning to read the Quran. I have a interest in religious texts of all sorts. I enjoy reading threads like this that have a nice balance of both sides, discussed in a respectful manner by pretty much all posters on both sides.

I'll still probably read the Quran, it is on my list. Sadly I don't imagine I'll take any more away from it than you did but it won't discourage me from reading it.

a reply to: celticdog

I am glad you found something positive... and it gets better:

To correct you on Zakat -

What you described is actually Sadaqah which is basically charity, this is optional as you know.

But Zakat (Tax) is an obligatory charity - a tax that everyone (who has the means) to share a specific percentage of their wealth with the poor. This is to spread the wealth among everyone. It is paid yearly.

I don't think any other tax in the word works this way, and is also obligatory.

Tax in general is paid by the population, for the the population. But not specifically given to the poor or needy.

And so you have a rule here, that is only burdensome to the very greedy.

a reply to: celticdog

WRONG.. zakat is giving 2.5% of your wealth in charity IF you have savings over a certain amount of gold.. Islam is a beautiful religion spiritually yes, but unlike the other religions it is best suited practically to deal with the issues of the world regardless of time and place. Since it is from Allah.. The Lord of Ibrahim (as), Musa (as), Isa (as) and Muhammad (as)..

And I can not believe how others are condoning your attempt to butcher a holy book.. [snipped]

a reply to: MstWntd
Hold on so I read the Qur'an from an Islamic site that is not good enough. I guess there are different versions of the book.


I guess you have a problem comprehending too because I said to have more mercy I have to be Muslim. That is the problem because you think being Muslim entitles you to more mercy and as you believe we all have the same god then I don't have be a Muslim to get the same mercy. All Christian prophets have the same god then Yahweh/Allah/Jehovah are one in the same.
I did say I only read up to chapter 5 and at first read I didn't like at all. You don't seem to comprehend that someone who has never read it before that is how it looks. And to me if it is that hateful sounding it can't be much of a book. And for the record I have same problem with bible.

With the Ad homonym attack you just conceded the argument/debate and proved my point. Thank you very much

a reply to: ISeekTruth101
So it is like a tithe you pay to a church. Most church do that but I don't where the funds go. Good to know and thanks for clearing that up..I can talk you but this mstwntd guy I don't know about him.

a reply to: MstWntd
I am pretty sure you would butcher someone else's faith since all you know is Islam. You don't seem to get the point I only read 4 chapters and that is what the thread is about and you think I have to know it all in one go. On face value that is what I got.

a reply to: celticdog

Yeah, not exactly like the church because you are free to choose how you give it away- so you know where it's going.

You can leave it with more capable hands that you trust or send it to a charity in bulk or even spread it around to different charities or the poor/ needy on the streets. Another part of the rule is that you can't give it to your immediate family, as that would be cheating and not really spreading the wealth.

I understand that the Zakat amount needs to be calculated precisely, so it takes into account any debts that you currently owe as well.

I am always open to having peaceful, and logical discussions. While you can't always sway or question other people's beliefs, we can discuss scripture and reasoning.

a reply to: celticdog

We have to do this again...

Hold on so I read the Qur'an from an Islamic site that is not good enough. I guess there are different versions of the book.

I clearly said "garbage in garbage out".. if you go to the Quran with hate and bigotry then that is what your going to find.. not just with the Quran but anything.. I also said that you're reading this without the proper understanding of the language it was delivered and the various levels of meaning behind the arabic words which do not get translated, hence I directed you to tafseer ibn kathir.. how you got "different versions of the book" is an affront productive thinking..

Later you got found to make a hate preaching statement.. which after some fact checking showed that you lied.. for which you have still yet to apologise for.. note at this point you do not have any credibility to come back with a view other than one that starts with "i am sorry"

I guess you have a problem comprehending too because I said to have more mercy I have to be Muslim. That is the problem because you think being Muslim entitles you to more mercy and as you believe we all have the same god then I don't have be a Muslim to get the same mercy.

A Muslim means "he who submits his will to Allah".. Christians submit their will to Jesus (pbuh).. (He, himself submitted his will to Allah.. hence he was a Muslim). You see Muslims are not specifically in the religion you know as Islam.. Whoever submits his will to Allah and is honest in his dealings can quite rightly be on the path of a Muslim..

All Christian prophets have the same god then Yahweh/Allah/Jehovah are one in the same.
I did say I only read up to chapter 5 and at first read I didn't like at all. You don't seem to comprehend that someone who has never read it before that is how it looks. And to me if it is that hateful sounding it can't be much of a book. And for the record I have same problem with bible.

I was not unlike you.. there was a time in which I had never read Quran, but when I did I had the right tools (tafseer ibn kathir, hadiths and the ability to read). Also I said this on here to someone else today, the Quran talks about heaven, hell, love, hate, life, death, mercy and war on a number of occasions. If you solely focus on the hell, hate, death and war then it speaks volumes about your character, intellect, beliefs and lack thereof.

With the Ad homonym attack you just conceded the argument/debate and proved my point. Thank you very much

You in all honesty lost the plot, debate, point and match when you quoted the Quran as a book for hate, gave a reference and was found to be lying. How you dont feel ashamed of that is beyond reasonable understanding. Like I said you shouldnt reply without an apology.

a reply to: celticdog

Oh please, if your going to start crying about how you didnt finish the book and you prematurely started to hate, then for the love of God dont start a thread bashing the Quran after reading only 4 chapters..

a reply to: MisterSpock
That is why I wanted to read it too. I wanted to see what it was all about and see the other side since I am only seeing or have seen the negative. I don't know I just found it hard to get through it was like reading the old testament in point form and trying to see that god is all good and merciful.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101
That's is the way it should be. Nobody knows everything and I am always reading to find new things. I find that it is very subjective and speculative. A health discussion is always good.

a reply to: MstWntd
Fine here's your apology. I am sorry for hurting your feelings and lying like the bad kafir that I am. Praise be to Allah the ever loving ever merciful.