BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo

BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo

In a move clearly intended by the Obama Administration to suppress the acquisition, ownership and use of AR-15s and other .223 caliber general purpose rifles, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives unexpectedly announced today that it intends to ban commonplace M855 ball ammunition as “armor piercing ammunition.” The decision continues Obama’s use of his executive authority to impose gun control restrictions and bypass Congress.

NRA-ILA

The recent revelations of Operation Choke Point used to impede banking services to firearm related businesses, the banning of imported 7.62X39 ammunition under same guise as the proposed .223 ban is just another step among many by the Obama administration to abridge the Second Amendment of the Constitution using any and all back door methods it can find.

The Second Amendment is not the only one under attack when one considers so-called net neutrality and executive orders pertaining to NSA-DHS domestic spying.

I am sure pro-anti gunners will chime in here about this facet of rights but the larger picture should be pointing to an across the board non-partisan concern over our constitutional rights being under full attack by the Obama administration using bureaucracy and executive orders as the means to avoid legal scrutiny.

a reply to: Phoenix

They're "thinking of the children" I say we should all think of our freedom. I'm not a gun owner and I can see the right to own one is under attack by corrosive forces and it's one of the few rights citizens have left that can be used to defend one/one's community against tyranny both domestic and foreign.

Of course the politicians won't give up their guns, their armed guards. The police will continue to be armed, the army, the criminals. If you follow the law in America you will be covered in red tape. S + F

Ammo sales about to skyrocket again......
The MIC must need some more ready cash.....
The banmed ammo is more common than dirt in the USA....good luck with that.....
Technically speaking the WW2 3006 ammo in ball ois far more armour piercing than 556.....maybe that's next on the list....
The Tree of liberty will die of thirst soon.....

a reply to: Yeahkeepwatchingme

I find it disingenuous to use the mildest term that ATF rules allow rifle caliber semi-auto pistols and then uses that particular use to then attempt a ban on the rifle ammo because it can be fired from a pistol making it fall under its armor piercing definitions.

I think I see its games here,

This goes forward there are many other calibers that could also be deemed as banned.

Reading the article in OP it appears almost anything other than .22 rimfire could be affected.

originally posted by: stirling
Ammo sales about to skyrocket again......


The MIC must need some more ready cash.....

That was sort of my very first reaction too, oh no here we go again........

But realizing how big a market share ball ammo serves both from surplus and newly manufactured this really will have a dramatic effect on fire arm owners access to ammunition.

The ban does not effect possession but rather bans sales, manufacture and importation of the ammunition.

In simple terms it would make the ammo in short supply and also very expensive.

If they can't ban the guns they'll ban the ammo - virtually same end result and an end run around the constitution.

a reply to: Phoenix

Watch out! That is a gross, incorrect misuse of the term. Under that logic any of the most common bullets could be banned in rifles or handguns.

I can't see that it makes sense. According to the Geneva Convention all armies must used such solid bullets. They do the least amount of damage to tissue and are cheaper than sporting ammo. Under a ban of them, civilian shooters will be using the more expensive but vastly more lethal sporting ammo.

So is the effort done to simply raise the price for bullets? That caliber, .222, is about the cheapest of all larger caliber bullets these days. --Could maybe the ammo company lobbies have had something to do with this to help eliminate cheap, imported ammo? Perhaps some sort of deal between them and the regulators?

a reply to: Phoenix

You are absolutely right. The major problems in the U.S., e.g. erosion of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, are problems common to all Americans. Yet, because of partisan politics, it's either all the other team's fault, or the solution isn't good enough because it didn't come from your side. And you know what happens because of it? Nothing. This right vs. left, blue vs. red, lib vs. conserv. nonsense keeps the masses preoccupied and bickering among themselves over petty issues while the criminals in government, who are all on team Wall St. no matter their official party affiliation, keep doing as they please and screwing us over. The levels of partisanship has reached epically pathetic levels.

Who cares under which administration the b.s. has occurred? We should all be pissed off at the government machine, not a specific political party, because both the republicans and democrats have #ed us raw the last 25 years.

Gah...

The chalupa in chief and his flunkies are the best thing to happen to gun and ammo manufacturers profit margins in a long time.

a reply to: FatherStacks

I agree wholeheartedly that politicians no matter the party are no longer beholden to the people or the constitution in the main.

This issue of banning .223 as armor piercing is good example of "feel good" laws and regulations turned against the people.

As I'm sure some partisans will later point out the regulation on armor piercing handgun ammunition dates back to the Reagan era and the current issue will be couched by them that way - I think that's in error.

The current administration is the one that's doing wholesale re-interpretations that are much more damaging to peoples rights under the constitution.

Every time I hear "there oughta be a law" or various governmental authorities put in place "feel good" laws to garner votes I cringe because I am old enough now to realize that sooner or later those seemingly benign laws and regulations will be abused.

Ok, some background on this:

The ATF wants to designate M855, M855A1, and SS109 variant 5.56x45 ammunition as "armor piercing" because the round itself has a steel core. None of those variants were designed specifically to penetrate armor of any kind. What is interesting is that standard 55gr lead core .223 and 5.56mm ammunition will defeat commonly worn soft armor vests anyway.

Steel core ammunition has been around a very long time. It was designed to prevent expansion which is illegal under the Geneva Convention for use in warfare. Armor piercing rounds are only to be used in anti-materiel applications and may not be used against human targets. If they BATFE re-classifies common 5.56mm ammunition as "armor piercing" then they would place the US in the awkward position of having to explain why the use of it in military applications does not constitute a war crime.

The BATFE is also "concerned" that AR-pistols using 5.56mm ammunition with steel cores would be in violation of current bans on "armor piercing" handgun rounds.

This reminds me of the "Teflon coated rounds gives them magical armor piercing capabilities" scare. Idiots who don't know a damned thing about guns or ammunition making rules on them.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
Gah...

The chalupa in chief and his flunkies are the best thing to happen to gun and ammo manufacturers profit margins in a long time.

Yes it seems that way but I tend to think its a secondary result to back government door bans. Naturally market forces come into play if artificial shortages are put in place by misguided regulations.

I had some pre 86' rifles that jumped six times in value for no other reason except governmental interference in the market place.

No difference here with the ammunition.

originally posted by: projectvxn
Ok, some background on this:

The ATF wants to designate M855, M855A1, and SS109 variant 5.56x45 ammunition as "armor piercing" because the round itself has a steel core. None of those variants were designed specifically to penetrate armor of any kind. What is interesting is that standard 55gr lead core .223 and 5.56mm ammunition will defeat commonly worn soft armor vests anyway.

Steel core ammunition has been around a very long time. It was designed to prevent expansion which is illegal under the Geneva Convention for use in warfare. Armor piercing rounds are only to be used in anti-materiel applications and may not be used against human targets. If they BATFE re-classifies common 5.56mm ammunition as "armor piercing" then they would place the US in the awkward position of having to explain why the use of it in military applications does not constitute a war crime.

The BATFE is also "concerned" that AR-pistols using 5.56mm ammunition with steel cores would be in violation of current bans on "armor piercing" handgun rounds.

This reminds me of the "Teflon coated rounds gives them magical armor piercing capabilities" scare. Idiots who don't know a damned thing about guns or ammunition making rules on them.

Sorry to quote the whole thing here but explained this way it further makes the case that the goal is not to fit a regulation but rather to make the regulation fit a goal.

That goal is to reduce the average citizens access to ammunition for the most common privately owned rifle in the country.

Bravo to you for framing this as a non-partisan issue. I wish more people could overcome our divisions and realize all of us are losing our rights.

Wasn't aware that ammo was such an issue.

Didn't make the main stream news fear mongering cycle.

The BATFE just makes it up as they go along.

Same GD thing they did when they banned smoke grenades cause they said they were explosives.

Nothing but a bunch of morons work at the BATFE.

GD political arm of the furher.


Zeig Heil!

originally posted by: Metallicus
Bravo to you for framing this as a non-partisan issue. I wish more people could overcome our divisions and realize all of us are losing our rights.

I've certainly been guilty of partisanship in the past and probably will be again on individual issues dealing with blind defenders of governmental activities as well as those who would add or subtract verbiage to the constitution to suit their politics.

We have a single issue in the OP and a seemingly larger and broader assault across the board which in my opinion IS a symptom of partisan division allowing incremental abridgement of rights in general.

All I can say is I'd defend your rights to the hilt and wonder if some would do the same for me, whether or not we agree on the result.

a reply to: Phoenix

Imo, you're a fellow human being, equally oppressed by the same system we're all oppressed by, I'd defend your rights. In the end our enemies aren't our fellow posters/people it's the ones keeping us ALL in chains.

originally posted by: projectvxn
Steel core ammunition has been around a very long time. It was designed to prevent expansion which is illegal under the Geneva Convention for use in warfare. Armor piercing rounds are only to be used in anti-materiel applications and may not be used against human targets. If they BATFE re-classifies common 5.56mm ammunition as "armor piercing" then they would place the US in the awkward position of having to explain why the use of it in military applications does not constitute a war crime.

There is an easy way around that issue. The .223 and 5.56x45 are technically different. Most ammunition sold for the AR is .223. All they have to do is apply the definition of armor piercing to .223 and not 5.56x45 to get around the Geneva restriction.

I don't understand what I read about the 7.62x39 ammo.
That's what I shoot. Are you saying its illegal now?

ermm...i'd assume you can get the primers still so all anyone needs is powder and a reloading kit and perhaps a crate of beer to pass the time while loading yourself a few thousand rounds and probably about as cheap as going to the store

sounds like someone should make a kit form with all the parts in a single box and make a mint

originally posted by: riffraff
I don't understand what I read about the 7.62x39 ammo.
That's what I shoot. Are you saying its illegal now?

No, it isn't illegal now. Not yet. The article is pretty much saying that the BATF, under the direction of Obama and executive order, wants to reclassify ball ammo as armor piercing. If that reclassification takes place, it would likely make a LOT of ammo illegal.