I am not an atheist by choice

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Nicely said, and an honest heart felt description of how you personally feel. I grew up catholic, attended private school, and also attended church everyday before the start of the school day. I was also an alter boy for 4 years and knew word for word all the private prayers the priest would say on the alter.

I Started to take notice of the hypocrisy in my own religion and others. As I did my own soul searching, and realized that religion has divided us, caused us to become judgmental, and has been the result of many killings and wars over the years and into the present time. it's what eventually opened my eyes and turned me away from religion.

I'm not an atheist, but I do believe in spiritualism and a supreme being and creator. Faith is exactly that. Nothing is concrete, and if our creator wanted us to follow one true religion, their would have been no doubts left open for interpretations. Considering there are over 20 some religions, I think it speaks for itself.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: BlueMule

Should I be seeking to "cure" my atheism though? I've finally begun to understand that there is nothing really WRONG with me as it is, but is there?

Atheism is a pattern of thought that is generally not conducive to psychic and spiritual development. Without that kind of development you won't reach your full potential. So it's holding you back. But I'm an easy going guy so I'm open to alternatives to the word cure.

👣

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Man, almost word for word (except the age of 'coming out'), this could be my story. Except my mom never lost her faith, and neither did my dad, nor my sister. I do have a cousin who walked away from the Mormon religion, but whether or not he's a true atheist, I have no knowledge because we haven't really discussed it.

My point is that I'm the only member of my family who doesn't believe. Like you, I spent my entire youth and early teenage years trying very hard to believe. I would sit in church and think about visiting all the holy sites in the Holy Land, I would cry when listening to sermons discussing the Passion, and I would daydream about how visible sun rays peaking through the clouds were escalators upon which angels would travel to and from Earth. Hell, my dad initiated and ran the AWANA program at my church, was a deacon in the church (a baptist church, mind you), and my mom was part of the choir, and I would hear her singing music from the likes of Sandi Patti (this was back in the 80s) every day of my young existence. I, too, was baptised at the age of 7--willingly. Because I wanted to believe.

But, like you, it never sprouted roots. I distanced myself from religion in high school, but not consciously--my dad was raising me on his own after the divorce, and he never made it a point to go to church. So I kind of forgot about it unless I went with my mom every other weekend. Then I joined the Army, and tried to rekindle that relationship with God--the one that I never really had to begin with--by becoming an usher in the Sunday church services during basic and advanced individual training. But still, it didn't stick.

Then I picked up a book by Zecharia Sitchin, and while I didn't buy into the whole Ancient Alien theory, per se, I was intrigued at the links between old-world religions, and how one borrowed upon the previous, which borrowed upon another, and then another, and so on back to the Sumerians (and, presumably, beyond into ancient tribes). I started researching the history of religions and the similarities and differences; when books in the Bible were actually written and by whom; at scientific explanations for things that were attributed to being miracles; at translations of original hebrew texts and how different they can be from modern versions, and so on and so forth. I have been doing this research for the past 16 years, and continue to do so with each new discovery.

I have come to the conclusion that religions are nothing more than creations by man in order to aid in creating laws and subjugation. I don't see religion necessarily as evil, but I do see how they have evolved into something much less pure than their original intent (some much more so than others). While I dismiss the divinity and supernatural-ness of the Bible, I don't dismiss the possibility that there is more to humanity than just one life and one body.

Is there a soul, or aura, or some interdimensional consciousness that exists in all of us? I can't say, but it's possible.

Is there an afterlife--no matter how similar or not to those described in modern religions? I can't say, but it's possible.

There are so many possibilities that coexist with life that we have yet to discover and quantify, and I don't close my mind off to the possibilities. But what appears to be the main difference between you and I, SR, is that I don't want to believe anymore, because I have concluded that what exists to believe in is not a realistic portrayal of what exists, and I'm certainly not going to subscribe to it just because its dogma holds my soul hostage in hell if I don't.

But, this was a very nice thread...thanks for sharing, and I'm glad I'm not alone in having been surrounded by believers, yet never being able to believe myself.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Just imagine God as being the greatest scientist imaginable.

One who created all this and has and will always have more unknowns than we have ever known.

Now imagine us as being an out of control expierment.

Since he is found with love in his heart he does not just hit the reset so easy.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I can relate to your story.
All I can say is try Humanism --it's a big boat. All humanists die martyrs, but as long as you can handle that, you're in.

It will help you sort out which religions/operatives/ideologies are a direct threat and which aren't.

Some have called me a Humanist. I think it resonates well with how I operate, honestly.

It really isn't necessary to believe in a 'creator being' to use spiritual laws to enhance your life.

Humanism tend to put humans first in the universe which is skewed as well.

Deep ecology where all nature is revered (not dieified) is a great place to start.

Personally I like secular buddhism (see Shambala, or Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche for excellent beginning texts).

I always wanted to 'believe' too - but could never reconcile 1) the way 'believers' acted and 2) the idea that 'we' are created in G's imagine when it's obvious that 'we' create our Gs in our imagine.

I always loved the pomp and ritual of religion and finding Tibetian Buddhism (with lots of pomp) without a G was a real eye opener.

Now my faith and belief in LIFE is a working part of my daily life.

Good luck to you on your journey - it really is the personal journey of your own experience that is importance not that you believe and fake someone elses.

If you're going to have a magical/spiritual/supernatural belief, then have good reasons for holding that belief.

Sure it would be comforting to have an overseer watching over you non-stop 24/7........or maybe not.

The honest but cold hard reality of this world has it's own comforts, but if you don't care whether or not the things you believe are true or not then I'd recommend going for one of the less rapey, genocidal god's religions.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Wow, it makes me feel a lot better to know I'm not the only one without the "faith organ". Thanks for sharing your story, really hit home.

originally posted by: BlueMule


Atheism is a pattern of thought that is generally not conducive to psychic and spiritual development. Without that kind of development you won't reach your full potential. So it's holding you back. But I'm an easy going guy so I'm open to alternatives to the word cure.

I disagree fervently with your statement "Atheism is a pattern of thought that is generally not conducive to psychic and spiritual development" and buddhists around the world would laugh at such an idea.

My personal experience is quite the opposite as well. Once I stopped trying to find this creator G that others talked about, admited I didn't even see how such a creature was possible, my spiritualily opened up and began to work.

I think the biggest part of that change was honesty.

It's very possible to live by spiritual principals without believing in a creator god. In fact, I think, it's easier.

Im with you on this one "god" is more like a title. I actually saw a video that gets into this the other day reply to: Blue Shift

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

As did yours...like I said.

And I wouldn't let anyone try to convince you that there's something wrong with you, as there's not any evidence that supports that claim. But as you appear to open to possibilites, remain open, and you never know what may smack you in the face and make sense when you least expect it--and if that 'something' turns out to be 'nothing,' that's okay, too. Just be the best, most positive influence in this world that you can be and I'm pretty sure that everything will work out in the end.

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I can relate to your story.
All I can say is try Humanism --it's a big boat. All humanists die martyrs, but as long as you can handle that, you're in.

It will help you sort out which religions/operatives/ideologies are a direct threat and which aren't.

Some have called me a Humanist. I think it resonates well with how I operate, honestly.

It really isn't necessary to believe in a 'creator being' to use spiritual laws to enhance your life.

Humanism tend to put humans first in the universe which is skewed as well.

Deep ecology where all nature is revered (not dieified) is a great place to start.

Personally I like secular buddhism (see Shambala, or Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche for excellent beginning texts).

I always wanted to 'believe' too - but could never reconcile 1) the way 'believers' acted and 2) the idea that 'we' are created in G's imagine when it's obvious that 'we' create our Gs in our imagine.

I always loved the pomp and ritual of religion and finding Tibetian Buddhism (with lots of pomp) without a G was a real eye opener.

Now my faith and belief in LIFE is a working part of my daily life.

Good luck to you on your journey - it really is the personal journey of your own experience that is importance not that you believe and fake someone elses.

Secular Buddhism sounds really interesting. Shambala you say? I'll look into it. Thanks!

I left the Mormon church at the age of 8 when I was baptised against my own wishes,,,,(didn't have a testimony)
They said it was ok id get it when these old dudes stuck their hands on my head and prayed one into me....
(It didn't stick I guess)....
From then on I knew the whole thing was a phoney power trip....became their worst enemy.....questioned the whole thing so much they took me out of sunday school for my age group, and stuck me with a bunch of older more indoctrinated kids....
I left the organisation a few years later when my dad died and mom couldn't make me go to church with out the old mans discipline.....
Ive had very little to do with my entire family since.....
You cant tell me my fancy underwear will save me from anything....
Simple bull# to bleed you of money and ensure obedience....
Anyone with an iq of over 50 could see through.....

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Also, I'm not sure it's technically an organ.

God Gene

originally posted by: stirling
I left the Mormon church at the age of 8 when I was baptised against my own wishes,,,,(didn't have a testimony)
They said it was ok id get it when these old dudes stuck their hands on my head and prayed one into me....
(It didn't stick I guess)....
From then on I knew the whole thing was a phoney power trip....became their worst enemy.....questioned the whole thing so much they took me out of sunday school for my age group, and stuck me with a bunch of older more indoctrinated kids....
I left the organisation a few years later when my dad died and mom couldn't make me go to church with out the old mans discipline.....
Ive had very little to do with my entire family since.....
You cant tell me my fancy underwear will save me from anything....
Simple bull# to bleed you of money and ensure obedience....
Anyone with an iq of over 50 could see through.....

I had a mormon friend in High School, well friend was a stretch during high school, but after a few years in the military he came to me and told me he understood how I feel, that his time on the front lines really changed the way he thought about faith and religion in general.

People are: prone to look to a higher authority (mommy daddy) and for meaning in existing in the first place... they are also generally terrified of death, lonely and love cliques (and specialized language and uniforms)...

people have stepped in to exploit these tendencies... some of those exploiters are primarily motivated by greed, some by the need for attention, some by a predilection for underage or same sex sex...

and that's mainstream religion, with exceptions, of course.

I was surprised to find evidence for intangible intelligence in this world, but it didn't drive me to religion for answers, as most of the answers "big religion" provided were/are silly.

It's a vaster, more nuanced universe than most atheists/agnostics would guess at... certainly larger than most dogmatically religious folks would venture... but that doesn't mean the anti-religious views are in error OR that some of the religious tenets aren't on the right track... it's the lack of room for error these stances have that bothers me.

As for your search... most answers will be a commercial for the writer's beliefs, like this one... perhaps you should craft your own as you seem capable of it... and are actively doing just that... so I hope it turns out well.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Also, I'm not sure it's technically an organ.

God Gene

So I'm not missing an organ, I'm just a mutant. LOL

Why couldn't my mutation give me superpowers instead of a stupid lack of faith?

I can tell you right now: There is NOTHING "wrong" with you. Reading this, I felt like I was reading something from my own head. I too was raised in a religious family, attended church twice a week, went to youth camps and even travelled to other states for mission trips. Everything you said I can relate to.

Wasn't till around the age 16-17 when I realized I would never gain the faith some people seemed to have. I too consider myself an atheist and not by choice, either.

Luckily, for me, people in my church community were pretty accepting of the idea of me not believing. They believe I will burn in hell for all of eternity but they know you can't force something onto someone who just can't accept the belief. They still love me, regardless, and still invite me to come back to church. Of course, you will always have those who will not associate with you because of how you are or how you feel. That will be something you will face throughout your entire life. No escaping it.

My opinion would be to just keep an open mind when it comes to any kind of belief. One day one may tug at you and you will find yourself extremely into it.

For me, I don't think I could ever believe in any thing. Mainly because there is NO REAL proof whatsoever that any of these religions are actually true. None. Until I SEE something that shows me otherwise, I will stay this way. I don't feel bad for it or think there is anything bad for being like this. Also, what's the pint in spending your life chasing after things that may or may not be true? LIVE YOUR LIFE!

Best thing for you t believe in above all else is yourself and what you are capable of doing for yourself. If you want to believe in anything believe in the effects of positive energy and negative energy. of keeping a positive outlook on life. Never let anything tear you down. Be happy with who you are and not what people want you to be. If someone can't love you or care for YOU then that person doesn't need you in their life.

You sound like a very intelligent person. You definitely sound open minded and non ignorant.

So just be and believe in yourself. You would not believe how much power you have within yourself.



a reply to: ScientificRailgun

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Im sorry to hear that your family and friends reacted in such a way, but faith is by choice. If you try to atain it by works, then you are substituting faith with works.

If you have a desire to believe, then what stops you? Simply believe that Jesus paid the debt of our sins, and you are saved.

Do you have trouble believing that Jesus existed? Do you have trouble believing that God exists? Ask God for the answers, and realize that those answers may not be what you want to believe.

Where is this church you speak of? I am always open to "curing" my atheism, if in fact there is a cure

a reply to: BlueMule

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

You may say to me: Why not believe just to be safe?

the same reason no one hangs garlic above their doors to ward off vampires.