Opposing the Ancient Astronaut Theory: Religion & Mythology

I believe that aliens are not only out there but have been on earth since the begining. I think they are just more advanced humans of different abilities.

a reply to: Tangerine

Not excited or screaming, just making the parts you seem to keep missing easier for you to find...

Still waiting for your pic selection....

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: Tangerine

Not excited or screaming, just making the parts you seem to keep missing easier for you to find...

Still waiting for your pic selection....

www.sinay.com...

Legends talk about aliens and heavenly gods visiting the earth, I think the ancients had reasons for saying that they were being visited by aliens and space gods, which is they most likely were being visited by space gods and aliens.

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

I believe that is a slight cop out for us.

The truth is:



"I want to believe." As far as paradigm and mental stability, I would have absolutely no problem accepting extraterrestrial life. However, existentially, we have more verifiable and circumstantial evidence pointing toward ancient human knowledge and modern advanced human blackops (no E.T. contact),... rather than that of ancient or modern extraterrestrial intervention.

While you state that ET visitations are not happening because of the amount of speculation...but the same can be said about black-ops. In order for those abduction cases to be linked to any black op...one would need to assume much:

1. your government is lying to you
2. your government is killing, torturing, abducting it's own citizens.
3. your government has technology which surpasses everything in the public domain and is keeping it a secret from everyone

Regarding your 3 numbered points,... we are dealing with humans. Humans have been known to lie, kill, torture, abduct, and keep upper-handed advantages secret. These are not assumptions.

According to Popular Mechanic's article; 6 Top-Secret Aircraft That Are Mistaken For UFOs

The CIA estimates that over half of the UFOs reported from the '50s through the '60s were U-2 and SR-71 spy planes. At the time, the Air Force misled the public and the media to protect these Cold War programs; it's possible the government's responses to current sightings of classified craft--whether manned or remotely operated--are equally evasive.

"Black Budgets" and "Black Projects" are very real. The imagines of the following aircraft were formerly classified black projects. Notice how these once top-secret aircraft resemble typical disk, round, triangular, and airship UFO reports.


(Vought V-173, 1942)




(Vought XF5U, 1947)



(VZ-9 Avrocar, 1959)



(SR-71 Blackbird, 1964)



(F-117A Nighthawk, 1981)



(B-2 Spirit, 1989)



(Boeing Bird of Prey, 1996)



(RQ-3 Darkstar, 1996)



(Lockheed Martin P-791, 2006)

"an Air Force flying saucer program that started in the mid-1950s and ended in 1961. In the upper right hand of each page was the icon of a flying disc stamped over a red arrow, the insignia of Project 1794.

Government Releases More Declassified Flying Saucer Docs

(Declassified; "Project 1794" Illustrations)








These aeronautic examples serve as verifiable proof that technology is developed and kept secret prior to public disclosure. Who knows how many past and present concepts, prototypes, and running projects remain Black and/or Top Secret.

Even the MH-60 Stealth Blackhawks were completely secret until one crashed during the 2011 Osama bin Laden raid.


(MH-60 Stealth Blackhawk)

a reply to: Tangerine

www.sinay.com...

HAHAHAHA... Funny how you took the pic but left the description attached to it behind. You know, the description that suggests the circular designs are "sun symbols"...as in something the artist saw....LMAO

Pictographs from Painted Cave near San Marcos Pass, Santa Barbara
County. These rock paintings were probably done by the spiritual leaders,
or shamans, of the Chumash. They might have been painted for a
ceremony. Some circular designs with rays or spokes look like sun symbols,
but the real meanings are not known.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: Tangerine

www.sinay.com...

HAHAHAHA... Funny how you took the pic but left the description attached to it behind. You know, the description that suggests the circular designs are "sun symbols"...as in something the artist saw....LMAO

Pictographs from Painted Cave near San Marcos Pass, Santa Barbara
County. These rock paintings were probably done by the spiritual leaders,
or shamans, of the Chumash. They might have been painted for a
ceremony. Some circular designs with rays or spokes look like sun symbols,
but the real meanings are not known.

You seem to not understand that symbolic representation of something requires imagination. Moreover, it's not known what the symbols, not all of which look remotely sun-like (you conveniently ignored those), represent the sun. Your claim is essentially that the people who created prehistoric rock art didn't have imaginations and were, instead, simple-minded literalists who could only depict in art exactly that which they observed. Has it occurred to you that they also had language which is symbolic and requires imagination? No, I'm guessing it didn't occur to you. I suggest that you personally visit and view several hundred rock art panels and then get back to me.

a reply to: Sahabi

Ancient technology once again resurfacing;
Shall we call it resurrecting the age of the Vimana?


Kenneth Arnold 1947 - the father of the term Flying Saucer;
(actually termed by the reporter interviewing Arnold, form Arnold's description the vehicle 'skipped along' the air surface like a saucer skipping along water.)
This is Kenneth Arnold's ORIGINAL depiction of what he witnessed.


Nazi Germany incorporated the help of the Horton brothers to create advanced flying machines.
Circa mid 1930's Horton 'Flying Wing'


Which influenced this design of the middle 1940's.
This is the world's 1st 'Blended-wing' design and it incorporates two
Jet-Turbine engines hidden in it's wing design.
During WW2 - the fastest plane flew at 359 miles an hour.
The Horton 229 flew at 610 miles an hour, able to evade radar detection due to
it's advanced design features.

Imagine flying a Spitfire and this blows by you!
No tail wing - No Rear-Rudder - No Propeller!
You just witnessed a true Unidentified Flying Object.


This object was commandeered at the end of WW2 by the Americans
and shipped back to the U.S.
Could this captured War-Toy be what Arnold saw?
..and in fact what ACTUALLY crashed in Roswell New Mexico in 1947 ???


Have we Back-Engineered our lost history?
Japanese Museum - 1st pic
American Museum - 2nd pic
Are TPTB showing us what we can't have; their private toys?



This technology would show irrefutable proof of a Free Energy
substance..therefore unavailable to the masses as the PTB need our $$$
and complacency to survive thereby selling the peasant masses outdated
harmful fossil fuel consumption.

This is the earliest Symbol associated to the word God - meaning;
A great roar of Light across the Waters.

...and yet it resembles closely what one would view as a Terrestrial Flying Object.


Much to digest..yet it is in the open for all to find.

Be well all.
E.NOCH

a reply to: Tangerine

Symbolic representation - where is your "testable whole evidence" proving that is what the drawings were? And lets not forget the article published by the National Academy of Sciences citing a very extensive list of industry professionals who conclude,"This finding lends support to hypotheses arguing that cave paintings might have contained less of a symbolic or transcendental connotation than often assumed."

I NEVER stated that prehistoric cave painters had no imagination, in fact I suggested in a previous post that they probably did. But cave painting and carving was not easy and it would be much more logical that they would attempt to create pictures of real things they witnessed firsthand rather than invent something entirely fictional and try to communicate that to someone. For what reason? What purpose did it serve? If it were art for art's sake the artist could draw things he actually saw that others would actually recognize and appreciate.

As for the images I ignored: I see several round objects. That could never occur in nature... Rocks? Stars? Planets? Fruit? There is one small image there that looks exactly like s slice of watermelon striped rind and all. People, caterpillars, snakes, squiggly lines...oh that's a tough one...lightening? A river? A path to a specific location? Chevron shapes. Feathers perhaps? Snake scales? Arrowheads? I don't see any shapes there that could not be observed in nature.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: Tangerine

Symbolic representation - where is your "testable whole evidence" proving that is what the drawings were? And lets not forget the article published by the National Academy of Sciences citing a very extensive list of industry professionals who conclude,"This finding lends support to hypotheses arguing that cave paintings might have contained less of a symbolic or transcendental connotation than often assumed."

I NEVER stated that prehistoric cave painters had no imagination, in fact I suggested in a previous post that they probably did. But cave painting and carving was not easy and it would be much more logical that they would attempt to create pictures of real things they witnessed firsthand rather than invent something entirely fictional and try to communicate that to someone. For what reason? What purpose did it serve? If it were art for art's sake the artist could draw things he actually saw that others would actually recognize and appreciate.

As for the images I ignored: I see several round objects. That could never occur in nature... Rocks? Stars? Planets? Fruit? There is one small image there that looks exactly like s slice of watermelon striped rind and all. People, caterpillars, snakes, squiggly lines...oh that's a tough one...lightening? A river? A path to a specific location? Chevron shapes. Feathers perhaps? Snake scales? Arrowheads? I don't see any shapes there that could not be observed in nature.

I would suggest that you get an education in prehistory and prehistoric art but you have already convinced yourself that you know it all. That leaves you with no option but to talk solely with yourself. Arrowheads in prehistory? LMAO

a reply to: Sahabi

Have you ever seen a fallen star quake the heavens?

a reply to: Tangerine

I was simply referring to the picture you selected. The picture you selected to prove your point. You know the one, by the Chomash. The one in the cave near San Marcos, Santa Barbara County. You, your education, and your professional friends must all be very familiar with the Chomash, right? I mean, after all, they have lived in that area for around 1,000 years. That's right, 1,000 years. Did they have arrowheads 1,000 years ago? I thnk so...LMAO

You profess such great knowledge and familiarity with so many professionals in the field, yet it takes repeated requests to get you to submit ONE piece of art that supports your opinion, in the face of professionals in the same field who suggest otherwise. Then when you do finally select one pic apparently you know very little about it and the text from the document from which you cherry picked that one picture doesn't even support your conclusion!

Fail.

a reply to: EzeqeelNOCH

Thank you, my brother, for mentioning the Kenneth Arnold sighting. I find it no mere coincidence that Arnold's UFO report is a perfect description of the Top-Secret "Flying Wing" concepts.

(Horten Ho 229, 1944)


(Northrop YB-49, 1947)


(Kenneth Arnold, June 24, 1947, first majorly publicized UFO report. Coined the term "Flying Saucer")

originally posted by: Titen-Sxull
a reply to: Sahabi

This is fantastic stuff Sahabi.

The thing about ancient astronaut beliefs is that in order to work they have to rob everything of its actual context and reinterpret it with ideas from modern UFO lore. Suddenly a fiery chariot in the story of Elisha becomes a UFO, a representation of the sun and moon in artwork becomes aliens visiting the crucifixion of Jesus and monuments essential to marking seasons and honoring gods become "impossible" without the help of extraterrestrials.

Mythology is so much more interesting in its proper context as are the achievements of our ancestors and I find it insulting when ancient alien believers tell us our ancestors weren't imaginative and intelligent enough to build a pyramid or dream up a pantheon of gods.

Hello there Titen-Sxull. In my opinion, your reply is right on. A.A. theorists often neglect the content and context of religious and mythological systems in order to fit their hypotheses.

Speaking of the proper context of mythology,... check out This Post by ATS member Ploutonas, as well as his thread; Lets try decode a Greek myth. Ploutonas gave us a wonderful glimpse into deciphering common mythology:

Let me tell you a secret. And if you can escape from the things bellow, then you are free. If you love reading, mythology... Once was Odysseus, the book stories his journey. In his way back he faced the sirens and they had special names, each one of them, was a different "spell", glamour...

Aglaoph – Glorious looks ( modeling, everybody is trying to look pretty, spending their time and energy into that, they made us not to accept our selfs as we are)

Lygeia – clean voice (law, teachers, politicians, priests, everything has to do with clean voice)

Lefkosia – white essence (drugs)

Thelxiepeia – attractive voice (that can be used in MME, also XxX), deception...

Molph – Melodic voice (we all know about the music industry).

Thelxinoh – beautiful mind (Hollywood, etc)

Peisinoh – convincing mind (MME, priests, etc)

and Thelxioph – attractive looks

These 8 ladies, did their best to keep him and his crew, away from his homeland and his wife, house.. kingdom.

Well these 8 ladies are the system we live on and Odysseus is the human race. And you must remember, if the religion system is built in a way, just be able to make you fear and control you... That doesn't mean, people shouldn't have beliefs, that there is no God, etc.. It is just, that they hide you the true god and they try to destroy your spirit. You see how easy for you to say.... " the religion system" they push you into atheism is it?


the knowledge exists and everybody have access.. Though must wake up and unite, all the rest are so easy..

In this topic, I will tell you what Odysseus did, when he finally arrived into Ithaki, his kingdom, That was filled with potential lovers for his beloved Penelope.

The most powerful competitors he had to face, (I will place them by order, according to our books).

Antinoos, Evrymaxos, Amfinomos and the last one was Agelaos.

Our ancients loved to speak with aligory and merge words.

Anti-noos - the one who is against knowledge, manipulates knowledge, change truths, blur the human minds. Anti (is the opposite) and noo-nohsh (is knowledge, information).

So Odysseus choose first Antinoos with an arrow in his neck! Why in his neck? Not be able to speak, communicate, not be able to lie and manipulate humans anymore.

The next Odysseus target is Evrymaxos - Evry (wide) maxos (the one who fights with any means, the cruel warrior).

The third is Amfinomos. Amfi-nomos. The one who controls the law and manipulates it and acts against real justice.

And the last one is Age-laos - (Ago means, I direct, controll) and laos (population of a country) The one who controls the government, the leader, the one who controls populations with the help of Antinoos (media). They control the sheep's.

This is the order Odysseus choose, to kill his enemies and made it, to take back his kingdom and finally found peace and returned into his wife. I hope you liked it. If you need some explanation about the words, how Anti-noos means what I ve said, just ask me to give you references from vocabularies..

originally posted by: Sahabi

originally posted by: Titen-Sxull
a reply to: Sahabi
...

The thing about ancient astronaut beliefs is that in order to work they have to rob everything of its actual context and reinterpret it with ideas from modern UFO lore. Suddenly a fiery chariot in the story of Elisha becomes a UFO, a representation of the sun and moon in artwork becomes aliens visiting the crucifixion of Jesus and monuments essential to marking seasons and honoring gods become "impossible" without the help of extraterrestrials.

Mythology is so much more interesting in its proper context as are the achievements of our ancestors and I find it insulting when ancient alien believers tell us our ancestors weren't imaginative and intelligent enough to build a pyramid or dream up a pantheon of gods.

...
]

The Ancient Aliens stuff is a belief system unsupported by any testable evidence and it depends on believers not being educated in mythology, art, prehistory etc..

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Hello again Vroomfondel.

"Did they take the time and effort to commit their imaginings to cave paintings and intricate sculpture? I don't think so."

Renowned archeologist, Brian M. Fagan (Professor emeritus), has detailed, that in order to properly understand any aspect of human prehistory, we must carefully consider Culture, Culture-History, Context, Time, and Space. When we examine prehistoric art from the sole perspective and interpretation of "Art," we blind ourselves to the overall cumulative expression of said art.

The first appearance of cave art coincides with a new concern with body ornamentation......

Late Ice Age people mastered the ability to think in specific visual images, using them as well as chants, recitations, and songs to share and communicate images and ideas.....

The surviving Cro-Magnon art of Europe and Eurasia is but a minor portion of their artistic output, for the artists almost certainly used many perishable materials—clay, wood, fiber, bark, hides, and bird feathers. Without question, too, they used red ocher and other pigments as body paint, for decoration...... On cave walls, the artists engraved and painted animals and occasional humans, also schematic patterns: lines, elaborate panels, and complex shapes. The same artists engraved antler, bone, and ivory with consummate skill.

[Cro-Magnon art sites] were ritual shrines, not only for local groups, but for people from far wider areas, too. Other locations were sacred places used occasionally for major ceremonies. These are illustrated dramatically by Le Tuc d'Audoubert Cave in Ariège, France, where two carefully modeled clay bison lie in a remote, low-ceilinged chamber far from the entrance...... Ancient human heel marks can be seen around the figures in this remote and dark chamber..... There are several instances in which the footprints of both adults and children are preserved in damp clay, perhaps left by small parties of initiates who attended ceremonies in remote subterranean chambers.

Upper Paleolithic art defies easy interpretation, for the symbolic messages it communicates come from a world that is remote from our own..... Did the artists paint for art's sake, as some art historians and archeologists allege? Or were they symbolically killing their prey before setting out on the chase? Such explanations are too simplistic, for we can be sure that the motivations for the art extended far beyond mere environmental and subsistence concerns.

Today, we know a great deal more about symbolic behavior and the art that goes with it..... Shamans, priests or spirit mediums are important members of forager and subsistence farming societies all over the world..... Perhaps, argue some experts, much of the cave art was involved with shamanistic rituals, the animal figures being images of spirit creatures or the life force for the shamans.

Some of the art may also have been associated with initiation rites, the journey through dark passages adding to the disorienting ordeal of initiation. Almost certainly, the art was a way of transmitting environmental and other knowledge from one generation to the next.

(Chapter 4: Diaspora
Section: "The World's First Art")
World Prehistory, A Brief Introduction
Brian M. Fagan

The context and culture of prehistoric cave artists is one steeped in imagination, symbolism, creativity, and inventiveness, influenced by a backdrop of shamanistic ritualism, ceremony, and belief.

"Has anyone ever seen a cave painting that they knew was fictional? I haven't. Every single one I have ever seen was something real."

Jewelry, body ornamentation, tools, pigments, and glues which predate many prehistoric cave art sites are creations of pure ingenuity and creativity. Inexplicable prehistoric art is not outside the realm of imagination.


Oldest Jewelry Found in Morocco Cave
(National Geographic, June 7, 2007)

Oldest Jewelry? "Beads" Discovered in African Cave
(National Geographic, April 15, 2004)

Ancient Jewelry
(Ancient Jewelry University)

Stone Age Superglue Found -- Hints at Unknown Smarts?
(National Geographic, May 11, 2009)

Oldest Glue Discovered
(Archaeological Institute of America)

Ancient glue points to intelligence

a reply to: Sahabi

Excellent post. However, the text says,

Upper Paleolithic art defies easy interpretation, for the symbolic messages it communicates come from a world that is remote from our own..... Did the artists paint for art's sake, as some art historians and archeologists allege? Or were they symbolically killing their prey before setting out on the chase? Such explanations are too simplistic, for we can be sure that the motivations for the art extended far beyond mere environmental and subsistence concerns.

The problem here, as stated in the text, is that we are looking at Upper Paleolithic art and trying to define it in a new millennium thought process and understanding. We cant ever hope to explain paleolithic behavior in modern standards or by comparison to behavior in present times. In today's world artists have the luxury of taking time to visualize and create cogent inspiring works. In paleolithic times man was so preoccupied with survival that the luxury of free time was a concept he was probably not familiar with. It is conceivable, however, to think he took the time to describe to others the target and method of successful hunting, something that would further enable survival. Taking that into consideration, it would suggest that cave paintings were inspired more by purpose than the desire for creative expression.

I don't doubt that ancient man had the desire to express himself, I just question whether he had the wear-with-all, knowhow and time...