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French President: Failure for Ukraine peace will result in war
page: 3share:
originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad
If a user wishes to mock the United States by sarcastically "chanting" "USA!USA!USA!" they need to remember that Russians chant mindless jingos to.
As does every nation on this earth. Do you think that chanting USA is an insult? And why equate Russians to soccor hooligans when every nation also has them?
At least the Russians were fighting the Welsh. In my videos the fans were tearing their own cities apart.
edit on 7-2-2015 by sosobad because:
(no reason given)
The problem has become so very important for all sides that the meetings need to have results . It's either get along or ???
" Merkel Fears Devastating Defeat Of The Ukrainian Army By German Economic News" www.informationclearinghouse.info...
"[German Chancellor] Angela Merkel seems to anticipate the economic and military collapse of Ukraine. Berlin’s civil service is naturally working hard on a peace plan. To avert fiasco, Merkel must now discuss a truce with [Russian President] Vladimir Putin. This war could end well for the rebels."
"Poroshenko wants to make it clear that the last chance has come to save Ukraine against a dramatic military defeat and economic collapse. On Thursday, the Ukrainian central bank had its key interest rate rise by five percentage points to 19.5 per cent, and the local currency UAH fell by almost half of its value.
Therefore, it seems that Merkel and Hollande were now advised to speak immediately with Putin on a solution to the conflict."
"In return for a ceasefire, separatists would be granted broad autonomy in eastern Ukraine, and covering a larger area that than previously planned. The demarcation line that is based on the Minsk Agreement will now be unsustainable. According to the SZ, territorial gains by the separatists will necessitate adding up to 1500 square kilometers to the proposed autonomous region.
Sources were not disclosed, but the SZ is usually well informed in such matters."
" Merkel Fears Devastating Defeat Of The Ukrainian Army By German Economic News" www.informationclearinghouse.info...
"[German Chancellor] Angela Merkel seems to anticipate the economic and military collapse of Ukraine. Berlin’s civil service is naturally working hard on a peace plan. To avert fiasco, Merkel must now discuss a truce with [Russian President] Vladimir Putin. This war could end well for the rebels."
"Poroshenko wants to make it clear that the last chance has come to save Ukraine against a dramatic military defeat and economic collapse. On Thursday, the Ukrainian central bank had its key interest rate rise by five percentage points to 19.5 per cent, and the local currency UAH fell by almost half of its value.
Therefore, it seems that Merkel and Hollande were now advised to speak immediately with Putin on a solution to the conflict."
"In return for a ceasefire, separatists would be granted broad autonomy in eastern Ukraine, and covering a larger area that than previously planned. The demarcation line that is based on the Minsk Agreement will now be unsustainable. According to the SZ, territorial gains by the separatists will necessitate adding up to 1500 square kilometers to the proposed autonomous region.
Sources were not disclosed, but the SZ is usually well informed in such matters."
a reply to: the2ofusr1
Sure...Ukraine is about to completely collapse.
It's a shame that some people will believe this Russian state propaganda.
Sure...Ukraine is about to completely collapse.
It's a shame that some people will believe this Russian state propaganda.
Well we are long overdue to a big European gang bang of war.
History ALWAYS repeats itself.
History ALWAYS repeats itself.
Peace plan is going to fail !
- Merkel and Hollande are open to peace
- DRP and LRP are open to peace
- Russia is open to peace
- Warmongers in Washington are not open to peace
- Kiev has been given the order to torpedo the peace
Order from Kiev: "break Donetsk at any cost"
Russian military needs to be drawn into the Ukraine at all cost !
- Merkel and Hollande are open to peace
- DRP and LRP are open to peace
- Russia is open to peace
- Warmongers in Washington are not open to peace
- Kiev has been given the order to torpedo the peace
Order from Kiev: "break Donetsk at any cost"
The massive heavy artillery shelling on Donetsk has resumed. In several districts of the city natural gas lines and electric substations are now out of service. Dozens more homes are without power and heat. Dokuchaevsk and Gorlovka are under intense fire. Many wounded, mostly peaceful citizens. At the Donetsk Peoples Republic (DNR) they have no doubt that Kiev is intent on aggravating the situation to the limit, and on striking the most vulnerable.
Explosions are constantly heard, with fresh craters from the incoming shells. Close by, the roof of a house that people were still living in. The outskirts of the town are being systematically destroyed by artillery fire. There are dead and injured: the wounded are constantly being brought into hospitals, most with shrapnel wounds.
“Incoming. Unmistakeably from the Ukrainian side. Yesterday the rockets were flying in from the area between Yasnovatya and Makeevka. You could see the projectiles flying in. Multiple rocket launchers definitely, all with exhaust trails, all plain to see.” —Vladimir Alekseev.
The Ukrainian firing zone is constantly increasing. Reports of new bombardment come in every hour.
Source
Russian military needs to be drawn into the Ukraine at all cost !
a reply to: BornAgainAlien
Do you six have any source of information outside of Kremlin controlled propaganda mills?
Do you six have any source of information outside of Kremlin controlled propaganda mills?
i never understood why separatists in syria are good separatists and separatists in ukraine are bad separatists.
a reply to: DJW001
You might like to think that we will think the way you would like us to think but, when it is a known fact that the CIA is known to plant stories in western MSM ,we can be sure that it is only western propaganda . There was a recent story supporting this fact but there is a older story as to how it works .
" By Carl Bernstein
October 20, 1977 In 1953, Joseph Alsop, then one of America’s leading syndicated columnists, went to the Philippines to cover an election. He did not go because he was asked to do so by his syndicate. He did not go because he was asked to do so by the newspapers that printed his column. He went at the request of the CIA.
Alsop is one of more than 400 American journalists who in the past twenty‑five years have secretly carried out assignments for the Central Intelligence Agency, according to documents on file at CIA headquarters. Some of these journalists’ relationships with the Agency were tacit; some were explicit. There was cooperation, accommodation and overlap. Journalists provided a full range of clandestine services—from simple intelligence gathering to serving as go‑betweens with spies in Communist countries. Reporters shared their notebooks with the CIA. Editors shared their staffs. Some of the journalists were Pulitzer Prize winners, distinguished reporters who considered themselves ambassadors without‑portfolio for their country. Most were less exalted: foreign correspondents who found that their association with the Agency helped their work; stringers and freelancers who were as interested in the derring‑do of the spy business as in filing articles; and, the smallest category, full‑time CIA employees masquerading as journalists abroad. In many instances, CIA documents show, journalists were engaged to perform tasks for the CIA with the consent of the managements of America’s leading news organizations.
WORKING PRESS — CIA STYLE
To understand the role of most journalist‑operatives, it is necessary to dismiss some myths about undercover work for American intelligence services. Few American agents are “spies” in the popularly accepted sense of the term. “Spying” — the acquisition of secrets from a foreign government—is almost always done by foreign nationals who have been recruited by the CIA and are under CIA control in their own countries. Thus the primary role of an American working undercover abroad is often to aid in the recruitment and “handling” of foreign nationals who are channels of secret information reaching American intelligence.
Many journalists were used by the CIA to assist in this process and they had the reputation of being among the best in the business. The peculiar nature of the job of the foreign correspondent is ideal for such work: he is accorded unusual access by his host country, permitted to travel in areas often off‑limits to other Americans, spends much of his time cultivating sources in governments, academic institutions, the military establishment and the scientific communities. He has the opportunity to form long‑term personal relationships with sources and—perhaps more than any other category of American operative—is in a position to make correct judgments about the susceptibility and availability of foreign nationals for recruitment as spies.
“After a foreigner is recruited, a case officer often has to stay in the background,” explained a CIA official. “So you use a journalist to carry messages to and from both parties”
Journalists in the field generally took their assignments in the same manner as any other undercover operative. If, for instance, a journalist was based in Austria, he ordinarily would be under the general direction of the Vienna station chief and report to a case officer. Some, particularly roving correspondents or U.S.‑based reporters who made frequent trips abroad, reported directly to CIA officials in Langley, Virginia.
The tasks they performed sometimes consisted of little more than serving as “eyes and ears” for the CIA; reporting on what they had seen or overheard in an Eastern European factory, at a diplomatic reception in Bonn, on the perimeter of a military base in Portugal. On other occasions, their assignments were more complex: planting subtly concocted pieces of misinformation; hosting parties or receptions designed to bring together American agents and foreign spies; serving up “black” propaganda to leading foreign journalists at lunch or dinner; providing their hotel rooms or bureau offices as “drops” for highly sensitive information moving to and from foreign agents; conveying instructions and dollars to CIA controlled members of foreign governments.
Often the CIA’s relationship with a journalist might begin informally with a lunch, a drink, a casual exchange of information. An Agency official might then offer a favor—for example, a trip to a country difficult to reach; in return, he would seek nothing more than the opportunity to debrief the reporter afterward. A few more lunches, a few more favors, and only then might there be a mention of a formal arrangement — “That came later,” said a CIA official, “after you had the journalist on a string.”
Another official described a typical example of the way accredited journalists (either paid or unpaid by the CIA) might be used by the Agency: “In return for our giving them information, we’d ask them to do things that fit their roles as journalists but that they wouldn’t have thought of unless we put it in their minds. For instance, a reporter in Vienna would say to our man, ‘I met an interesting second secretary at the Czech Embassy.’ We’d say, ‘Can you get to know him? And after you get to know him, can you assess him? And then, can you put him in touch with us—would you mind us using your apartment?”‘
Formal recruitment of reporters was generally handled at high levels—after the journalist had undergone a thorough background check. The actual approach might even be made by a deputy director or division chief. On some occasions, no discussion would he entered into until the journalist had signed a pledge of secrecy.
“One of the things we always had going for us in terms of enticing reporters,” observed a CIA official who coordinated some of the arrangements with journalists, “was that we could make them look better with their home offices. A foreign correspondent with ties to the Company [the CIA] stood a much better chance than his competitors of getting the good stories.”
Within the CIA, journalist‑operatives were accorded elite status, a consequence of the common experience journalists shared with high‑level CIA
You might like to think that we will think the way you would like us to think but, when it is a known fact that the CIA is known to plant stories in western MSM ,we can be sure that it is only western propaganda . There was a recent story supporting this fact but there is a older story as to how it works .
" By Carl Bernstein
October 20, 1977 In 1953, Joseph Alsop, then one of America’s leading syndicated columnists, went to the Philippines to cover an election. He did not go because he was asked to do so by his syndicate. He did not go because he was asked to do so by the newspapers that printed his column. He went at the request of the CIA.
Alsop is one of more than 400 American journalists who in the past twenty‑five years have secretly carried out assignments for the Central Intelligence Agency, according to documents on file at CIA headquarters. Some of these journalists’ relationships with the Agency were tacit; some were explicit. There was cooperation, accommodation and overlap. Journalists provided a full range of clandestine services—from simple intelligence gathering to serving as go‑betweens with spies in Communist countries. Reporters shared their notebooks with the CIA. Editors shared their staffs. Some of the journalists were Pulitzer Prize winners, distinguished reporters who considered themselves ambassadors without‑portfolio for their country. Most were less exalted: foreign correspondents who found that their association with the Agency helped their work; stringers and freelancers who were as interested in the derring‑do of the spy business as in filing articles; and, the smallest category, full‑time CIA employees masquerading as journalists abroad. In many instances, CIA documents show, journalists were engaged to perform tasks for the CIA with the consent of the managements of America’s leading news organizations.
WORKING PRESS — CIA STYLE
To understand the role of most journalist‑operatives, it is necessary to dismiss some myths about undercover work for American intelligence services. Few American agents are “spies” in the popularly accepted sense of the term. “Spying” — the acquisition of secrets from a foreign government—is almost always done by foreign nationals who have been recruited by the CIA and are under CIA control in their own countries. Thus the primary role of an American working undercover abroad is often to aid in the recruitment and “handling” of foreign nationals who are channels of secret information reaching American intelligence.
Many journalists were used by the CIA to assist in this process and they had the reputation of being among the best in the business. The peculiar nature of the job of the foreign correspondent is ideal for such work: he is accorded unusual access by his host country, permitted to travel in areas often off‑limits to other Americans, spends much of his time cultivating sources in governments, academic institutions, the military establishment and the scientific communities. He has the opportunity to form long‑term personal relationships with sources and—perhaps more than any other category of American operative—is in a position to make correct judgments about the susceptibility and availability of foreign nationals for recruitment as spies.
“After a foreigner is recruited, a case officer often has to stay in the background,” explained a CIA official. “So you use a journalist to carry messages to and from both parties”
Journalists in the field generally took their assignments in the same manner as any other undercover operative. If, for instance, a journalist was based in Austria, he ordinarily would be under the general direction of the Vienna station chief and report to a case officer. Some, particularly roving correspondents or U.S.‑based reporters who made frequent trips abroad, reported directly to CIA officials in Langley, Virginia.
The tasks they performed sometimes consisted of little more than serving as “eyes and ears” for the CIA; reporting on what they had seen or overheard in an Eastern European factory, at a diplomatic reception in Bonn, on the perimeter of a military base in Portugal. On other occasions, their assignments were more complex: planting subtly concocted pieces of misinformation; hosting parties or receptions designed to bring together American agents and foreign spies; serving up “black” propaganda to leading foreign journalists at lunch or dinner; providing their hotel rooms or bureau offices as “drops” for highly sensitive information moving to and from foreign agents; conveying instructions and dollars to CIA controlled members of foreign governments.
Often the CIA’s relationship with a journalist might begin informally with a lunch, a drink, a casual exchange of information. An Agency official might then offer a favor—for example, a trip to a country difficult to reach; in return, he would seek nothing more than the opportunity to debrief the reporter afterward. A few more lunches, a few more favors, and only then might there be a mention of a formal arrangement — “That came later,” said a CIA official, “after you had the journalist on a string.”
Another official described a typical example of the way accredited journalists (either paid or unpaid by the CIA) might be used by the Agency: “In return for our giving them information, we’d ask them to do things that fit their roles as journalists but that they wouldn’t have thought of unless we put it in their minds. For instance, a reporter in Vienna would say to our man, ‘I met an interesting second secretary at the Czech Embassy.’ We’d say, ‘Can you get to know him? And after you get to know him, can you assess him? And then, can you put him in touch with us—would you mind us using your apartment?”‘
Formal recruitment of reporters was generally handled at high levels—after the journalist had undergone a thorough background check. The actual approach might even be made by a deputy director or division chief. On some occasions, no discussion would he entered into until the journalist had signed a pledge of secrecy.
“One of the things we always had going for us in terms of enticing reporters,” observed a CIA official who coordinated some of the arrangements with journalists, “was that we could make them look better with their home offices. A foreign correspondent with ties to the Company [the CIA] stood a much better chance than his competitors of getting the good stories.”
Within the CIA, journalist‑operatives were accorded elite status, a consequence of the common experience journalists shared with high‑level CIA
a reply to: the2ofusr1
Ia assume you prefer the Russian system of controlling the media openly? It's still propaganda, and certainly no better than what is available in the United States and Europe. Here, we are free to research and evaluate the truth of what we are told. That is not necessarily an option elsewhere. Why don't you try going on a Russian language site and tell them that they are being brainwashed by FSB lies. See how long you will be permitted to post there.
Ia assume you prefer the Russian system of controlling the media openly? It's still propaganda, and certainly no better than what is available in the United States and Europe. Here, we are free to research and evaluate the truth of what we are told. That is not necessarily an option elsewhere. Why don't you try going on a Russian language site and tell them that they are being brainwashed by FSB lies. See how long you will be permitted to post there.
originally posted by: anticitizen
i never understood why separatists in syria are good separatists and separatists in ukraine are bad separatists.
You have it exactly backwards! The separatists in Ukraine are the good guys, the separatists in Syria are terrorists. Ask BornAgainAlien to explain why.
a reply to: DJW001
You see ,I normally read reporters from the west that have their sources .The MSM has lost all credibility and most of the people I listen to are American ,Canadian ,or European but not part of the MSM . They know the CIA propaganda score and are very good at what they do . peace
You see ,I normally read reporters from the west that have their sources .The MSM has lost all credibility and most of the people I listen to are American ,Canadian ,or European but not part of the MSM . They know the CIA propaganda score and are very good at what they do . peace
NATO is a complete joke and has neither the technology nor the stomach for a direct war with Russia.
Meanwhile Ukraine is forcing conscripts to join or be thrown in prison or worse.
Putin has been playing his hand well and knows american politicians will finally be crucified for starting a war they can't win in weeks with Russia.
Meanwhile Ukraine is forcing conscripts to join or be thrown in prison or worse.
Putin has been playing his hand well and knows american politicians will finally be crucified for starting a war they can't win in weeks with Russia.
a reply to: DJW001
Didn`t you have friends/family in the Ukraine ?
You might want to read this urgently and warn them ASAP !
Doomsday Watch: Ukrainian government to seize personal savings
Didn`t you have friends/family in the Ukraine ?
You might want to read this urgently and warn them ASAP !
Doomsday Watch: Ukrainian government to seize personal savings
Ukrainians, I am not trying to frighten you. But they are planning to nakedly rob you. All of you. If you still have any deposits left, withdraw them as soon as you can. Otherwise you may be too late.
Source
Being as I'm living not far away I try to follow the news on Ukraine, but the Russian fan boys here are making it hard to stomach with the constant
spamming wild theories.
It's odd if nato and the USA are ready to head to war over the Ukraine, somebody forgot to tell a large part of the usaf and nato. I've go friends and family in both and nobody is sitting on go... It takes time and reams of paperwork to deploy a unit.
I think we will have some folks here that should be embarrassed about all the fear mongering they have been doing.
It's odd if nato and the USA are ready to head to war over the Ukraine, somebody forgot to tell a large part of the usaf and nato. I've go friends and family in both and nobody is sitting on go... It takes time and reams of paperwork to deploy a unit.
I think we will have some folks here that should be embarrassed about all the fear mongering they have been doing.
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