Elephant in the room : We will discover Aliens before they discover us

If we discover an intelligent signal wouldn't that make us out to be more intelligent than we believe ourselves to be? Considering ourselves Gods? Or children of God?

Science has come up with all these excuses why we won't be visited...then in the same breath forecast ET discovery.

Am I the only one catching this???

Seems odd IMO...

Also please link the exo-ocean information....I'd like to know how they determine if an exoplanet has water/oceans. Or is that only assumed because it is in the Goldi-Locks zone?

Jade Star, you mention astronomers and such regularly discuss exo-planets that could be listening in on us, and observing us....My question is why is this not public knowledge or talked about more? I've read your Zeta thread, very nice.

To me, the grand conclusion, we have not been visited, but we will discover ET life in the next 10-50 years.

That is such a bias way of thinking.

When will headlines news state, "The science community thinks it is very likely we are being observed, and have been visited...however we have no direct evidence, but this research would indicate it is very likely."

However that is not the case! We have never been visited, and our timelines won't match up, and on our own we will discover ET life in the next decade or so. Wait, what?

originally posted by: game over man
If we discover an intelligent signal wouldn't that make us out to be more intelligent than we believe ourselves to be? Considering ourselves Gods? Or children of God?

Not really. No more than inventing the light bulb did. If anything it would probably humble us even more since there's a very good chance that signal would be coming from and older civilization with more technological capability than we have.

Inverse square law. Signals fade over distance. Other than our most powerful military and planetary radars most of our radio and TV would be undetectable by us using the same equipment on a planet more than 4 light years away.

So if we receive a signal and its not coming from Alpha Centauri then someone up there might have some VERY powerful transmitters we have not yet built or even be capable of building (if the signal came from a very distant place).

Science has come up with all these excuses why we won't be visited...then in the same breath forecast ET discovery.

Am I the only one catching this???

Seems odd IMO...

Because while aliens might exist, there is no guarantee that interstellar travel or the motivation for such travel is common or that they'd come here to visit us in a way we would notice.

Why do you assume we'd be that interesting and worth the risk of contamination?

They could just as easily be observing us and you through that nanoscale sized probe crawling on your screen. Imagine how many nanoscale sized probes you could fit in a spacecraft the size of a soda can.

Perhaps to find the aliens, we should be looking under advanced microscopes as well as advanced telescopes?

Also please link the exo-ocean information....I'd like to know how they determine if an exoplanet has water/oceans. Or is that only assumed because it is in the Goldi-Locks zone?

Ok there are a couple ways we detect these water worlds.

The first is indirectly.

If you know the radius of a planet and it's mass you can estimate it's density. Water has a very specific density: 999.97 kg/m³

We've measured planets with a density of water which means they are mostly made up of water.

The other way we can detect water worlds is by directly imaging them and measuring their light. Different molecules reveal themselves in the spectra of infrared and optical light.

In the video below the astronomers hunt young water worlds in the infrared and show you how it's done:



See also this thread in the space forum: ATS: "How do they take pictures of exoplanets?" "How do they know that planet has water?" (VIDEO)

Jade Star, you mention astronomers and such regularly discuss exo-planets that could be listening in on us, and observing us....My question is why is this not public knowledge or talked about more?

Probably because most people are interested in stuff like the Kardashians, and not so concerned with the possibility that the Cardassians may be listening in on or looking in at us from advanced space telescopes.

You and I of course are fascinated by this but your average person doesn't really follow astronomy as closely as they follow astrology and their horoscope

[quote[I've read your Zeta thread, very nice.

Thank you.

To me, the grand conclusion, we have not been visited, but we will discover ET life in the next 10-50 years.

That is such a bias way of thinking.

I am open to any credible evidence beyond stories that we've been visited. Stuff which can be studied in a lab, knowledge about our universe from "abductees" revealing something so far unknown to science but which can be confirmed by science, any of that would do. So far, no luck and I've done a ton of reading of the literature and just received two books from Stanton Friedman who was kind enough to send them on his own dime after he read the Greys and Betty Hill Starmap threads.

When will headlines news state, "The science community thinks it is very likely we are being observed, and have been visited...however we have no direct evidence, but this research would indicate it is very likely."

When there is ample evidence for it. Evidence need not be direct evidence. It could indirect evidence. The first planets discovered around other stars were detected indirectly through the motion the planet exerted on the star.

Indirect evidence which might support such a headline could be something like the outcome of the search announced in this Forbes's article talking about search for alien artifacts on our moon.

If we found the equivalent of an alien screwdriver or alien screw (manufactured metal with an isotopic ratio indicating it wasn't from our earth or even solar system) then that could be indirect evidence to support such a headline.

So far nothing, but who knows what the news tomorrow will bring.

However that is not the case! We have never been visited, and our timelines won't match up, and on our own we will discover ET life in the next decade or so. Wait, what?

Pretty much.

Alien life doesn't necessarily mean alien intelligent life.

Our forrest on Earth have broadcasted to the universe that Earth had life for the last 2.5 billion years.

When you read headlines saying "Scientists confident that we could detect alien life in the next 10-30 years" they mean detecting alien microbes, forests or the equivalent, not necessarily ET the ExtraTerrestrial.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: game over man
If we discover an intelligent signal wouldn't that make us out to be more intelligent than we believe ourselves to be? Considering ourselves Gods? Or children of God?

Not really. No more than inventing the light bulb did.

Now we could detect an intelligent signal far off into space, but what if one was detected near by?

I see where you are going with the comparison how it would change the world over, the way you phrased it, it's no big deal?

Detecting one near by would mean the ET are more advanced than us because they traveled close by. However we feel that we will be the ones reaching out, with no response, and reasons why there has never been a response, and reasons why there won't ever be a response, but reasons why we will one day find our own and we will be sending the response.

Seems so twisted...

There is no prediction of when we will receive contact from an intelligent civilization, but we have predictions when we will contact one.

^Probably should have used that as my OP, but that is my elephant in the room.

originally posted by: game over man
Now we could detect an intelligent signal far off into space, but what if one was detected near by?

This has always been one of those scenarios that I would fail to understand. There are stars with potential within 50 light years of earth. Assuming they are on the same path we are at close to the same level of technology then we should be detecting their signals.

I think it would be weird finding intelligent life hundreds of light years away yet not close.

a reply to: JadeStar

Just read your whole post! Very informative thank you.

2nd

ETA:

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: game over man

I have been spiritually researching the subject and the final answer i got is that humans and aliens are not socially compatable.

It would only create a war in which one side would be wiped out.

originally posted by: Puppylove

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: game over man

I have been spiritually researching the subject and the final answer i got is that humans and aliens are not socially compatable.

It would only create a war in which one side would be wiped out.

What a ridiculous assumption. If there are multiple kinds of aliens they'd be varied, making any claim as fact on all possible species that may exist and applying it to all of them is ludicrous.

In fact, is probably why if there are aliens, we haven't been conquered. If they are interacting, they will be varied and disagree on a lot. We exist most likely because of multiple species checks and balances, if there are multiple aliens involved.

I'm sure if there are other aliens, there's at least some species that would get along fine with us socially if allowed to.

Just caught this post. Instantly reminded me of music and chant, so intense it leads to an out of body experience. If ET truly have the social non capability, then could an intense moment of music or chant connect you to these beings? When we are in this state they like us, or atlas acknowledge us? Ancient songs and chants directed towards spiritual beings as well as music throughout the centuries?

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: game over man
If we discover an intelligent signal wouldn't that make us out to be more intelligent than we believe ourselves to be? Considering ourselves Gods? Or children of God?

When will headlines news state, "The science community thinks it is very likely we are being observed, and have been visited...however we have no direct evidence, but this research would indicate it is very likely."

When there is ample evidence for it. Evidence need not be direct evidence. It could indirect evidence. The first planets discovered around other stars were detected indirectly through the motion the planet exerted on the star.

If we found the equivalent of an alien screwdriver or alien screw (manufactured metal with an isotopic ratio indicating it wasn't from our earth or even solar system) then that could be indirect evidence to support such a headline.

So far nothing, but who knows what the news tomorrow will bring.

So an Ancient Alien Theory or a legit UFO sighting...thats a conundrum/paradox because the same group looking for that evidence rules out all evidence. The science community is relying on this data to confirm visitation. The believers say "Thanks!" The science community says "Sorry! No evidence!" However the science community wants Ancient Alien and UFO evidence!


What I'm asking is why isn't there a scientific explanation for the LIKELY possibility that ET has visited us?

It's a taboo subject for serious people...

The science community won't touch the subject...that is why we have this elephant in the room, that humans will discover ET before ET discovers us...

We won't even go there...and that is because science is ruled by Western Culture, which believes in Christianity...and doesn't believe in any other God.

The cultures across the world who have believed in ET since ancient times, are oppressed from being involved at a high level with astronomy and space travel.

That is why we have this belief we have not been visited. Because it is controlled by Christian forces.

a reply to: game over man

What I'm asking is why isn't there a scientific explanation for the LIKELY possibility that ET has visited us?

It's a taboo subject for serious people...

The science community won't touch the subject...that is why we have this elephant in the room, that humans will discover ET before ET discovers us...

There have been serious studies and serious people who have (or do) examined all the data available to them.

The thing is, none of them have been able to be secure in their data to the point where it becomes valid information. For example, there are ongoing analyses of UFO databases. The problem is that we don't know how many reports are accurate or honest and they will skew results. We don't know which ones were misperceptions that someone else would have been able to identify if they'd been the witness.

Here are a few people with PhDs who have looked at the UFO phenomena and been unable to make the assertion that we're dealing with extraterrestrial intelligence/s.

Michael D Swords
Paul R. Hill
J. Allen Hynek
Jacques Vallee
Dave Clarke
Eddie Bullard
Peter A Sturrock
Massimo Teodarani
Richard Haines
Bernard Haisch
James E MacDonald

Most of them are supportive of the idea that UFO sightings reports have an unknown origin. Still, they cannot go all-out and shout 'It's aliens!'

Science isn't ruled by Christian forces. Once upon a time, science was saved by early Islam when western Europe fell apart in the 'Dark Ages.' Northern Europe is largely atheist and contributes plenty to science without any help from religious beliefs. Most scientists are agnostic at best and atheist in general. In the list above, Swords is a practising Catholic which makes him exceptional. If science is 'ruled' by anything, it's popular opinion, funding constraints and politics. Same as us lol!

Anyway, I could be wrong here and that's fair enough. It just seems that if dedicated researches can't form conclusions about UFOs, it's unfair to criticise wider science for not being interested.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Can't we combine our intelligence of the Universe with this scientific conclusion of the unknown?

Why not?

No one is up to it, because it's taboo...

a reply to: Xcathdra
I don't think it is that strange that we have not detected signals yet from nearby stars. I don't think it is a given that there is intelligent life in any of these systems at the level of humans. I am pretty convinced humans are not at the top of the intelligence scale in the Milky Way. But, I don't believe there are just millions and millions of civilizations either. I am guessing when we do start discovering complex life on other worlds, we are going to find a lot of plants, fish, amphibians and reptile like creatures. It will be exciting, but, perhaps not emotionally rewarding.

We may also ultimately find out that interstellar travel is not possible. If that is the case, hopefully there is a way to communicate with other intelligent beings quickly, if we can find them. An interstellar internet would open a new chapter in our world almost as much as being there.

I think its pretty clear our governments will control the flow of info on ET and claim discovery should they ever decide to announce anything.

ETs flying around in their UFOs could announce themselves at any point but have obviously decided not to.

In the future if humanity finally breaks free of Earth as a whole and travels the stars we will eventually contact those UFO occupants and ultimately find out they were here in secret and why they remained so. We will also find out just why our own governments denied their existence as well.

Until then the current scientific dogma on the subject will prevail in the court of public opinion.