Christians, are violent old testament verses relevant to your beliefs today?

a reply to: InSatanIsisServes

neo-platonic? first we much understand the original schism of the eastern and western church... looking at history the Byzantine (original Greek orthodoxy) enjoyed a much longer reign even through the European dark ages. After all, it is the Greeks who brought Christianity to Rome.

Revelation 19:11-21

Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.

Mark 16:18

They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

The old testament is history, that is how it was explained to me...

Christians fight fire with fire, the only difference is their fire is tempered with righteousness. From my observations anyway.

I don't know much about Christians but I don't think pacifism would work too well for them?

Ecclesiastes...

originally posted by: InSatanIsisServes
I believe the times between the Old and New Testament were more about the power structures in place in Israel at the time. It was not possible to spread the word of Christ without an appeasement top the prevailing religious thought. The true spiritual ancesters of the New Testament are the Essene and Neo-Platonic philosophies

that which paved the way was not Neoplatonic Mysticism, it was Hellenistic Philosophy.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

---

the definitive proof that Eastern Orthodoxy is the original flavor and not Roman Catholicism would simply be Thomas Aquinas, who achieved Sainthood in Catholicism, his miraculous teachings were of the Greek Aristotelian persuasion. All of this before the reformation which is an amazing factual truth in itself.

www.dhspriory.org...

Also... that which gave rise to the reformation, or should I say the final nail was the translation of the Bible into the vulgar English Language. This was done by a man named William Tyndale, who used the original "Greek" and "Hebrew" text.

The Latin Vulgate was corrupt... Martin Luther took care of all that for future Christians though and they are called Protestants.

The original settlers of the Americas north of Mexico where the first generation of English speaking peoples to have an uncorrupt translation of the Holy Bible (Circa 1585 and 1600's) In Europe and Americas they were called the Puritans.

en.wikipedia.org...

Eastern Orthodox Christians are among the wealthiest Christian denominations in the United States.[6] They also tend to be better educated than most other religious groups in America, having a high number of graduate (68%) and post-graduate (28%) degrees per capita.[7]

www.ocf.org...

Following the Holy Fathers, Orthodoxy uses science and philosophy to defend and explain the Faith. Unlike Roman Catholicism which does not build on the results of philosophy and science.

^this is quite un-greek of Catholicism imo, considering the original and oldest Biblical text are in fact written Greek and Hebrew.

Windword and others on this thread.

Hebrews chapter 9 goes to great lengths to illustrate the testaments from a different perspective than is done in Galatians chapter 4.

A testament is a promise..a convenant..again a promise. A will and testament.

Historically the event which makes the will or testament or promise or covenant in effect is the death of the testator.

This is known world wide. That for a testament to go into effect ..the testator must die.

And the author of Hebrews 9 goes to great lengths to explain this about the two testaments.


And furthermore...a testator can change this testament as often as they want while they live..and the testament which goes into effect is the last will and testament when the testator dies.

Ironically ..again...many Believers do not know this relationship or understanding of testaments and particularly the New and Olde Testaments.

For it is obvious that no one died under the Olde Testament. Furthermore ..in the Olde Testament the Hebrews were told that a change was coming in the Testament because of their stiff-necked disobedience...their defilement ...of the Law of Moses.



I am indeed a follower of Paul... Vethumanbeing. For I know that Paul was the very last person the Apostles would have chosen or even believed would be converted by God. The very last.
And furthermore..Paul is the perfect person to be converted and carry the Gospel to the Gentiles. For Paul knew much more of the Olde Testament than the other Apostles. As a former Pharisee..he knew it backwards and forewords and by God's Grace..understood clearly the difference in what happened at the Cross and between the New and Olde Testaments.

He also by Galatians Chapter 4 knew that the Olde Testament was in bondage with her children. And that Believers were not to be under that bondage....but to know the Olde Testament as their schoolmaster..to know what came before. We are not to be ignorant of the Olde Testament.

The Olde Testament is relevant because we are to know what came before us and why.

Also Vethumanbeing...I know that in like manner to Jesus...Paul was not liked by his own people...the Jews and particularly the Jewish Leadership. What Paul knew and taught was a threat to the scam the Jewish leadership were pulling off to keep and maintain their power and control..while playing lip service to the Law of Moses....and in secret.

Being formerly of the Pharisee "Craft" Paul would intimately know this pattern and be able to teach others of how this works...in Light of the New Testament.

This is why to those who can see, hear, and understand...pattern recognition is important to see the method of this world verses Gods Way. There are two different systems in operation here. One not known by most people...hidden and concealed. God's Way ..and the other a counterfeit system...attempting in many variations to overlay on top of God's Way as if it was God's Way. To bring Believers back into Bondage...under Hagar and Ishmael...and away from Sarah and Isaac and his seed.

I do not travel to the east...up seven steps...but I know what it means..and have known for over 20 years now. I can see and hear it in certain speeches by public officials..on the radio and on television...in the newspapers.

I've seen it operating in courts as well and where most haven't a clue it is going on.

I've seen it carefully hidden and concealed on the boob tube..particularly on certain programming. The Country western awards comes immediately to mind.

One can see it in public education and among the posters here on ATS and other threads. Most haven't a clue that they area carrying on someone else's program or that it even exists.

The higher one goes into public education the more intense and slippery this pattern is hidden to all but those who can see , hear, and understand. And many of these people are now in positions of leadership. Not difficult to see it transpiring.

Thanks for the posts of all,
Orangetom

windword,

....And, what I post is for readers as well, readers who deserve to hear from the other side of the coin. I think it's destructive and dangerous to teach that there is no goodness in mankind and no goodness on earth, and I'll always argue against such ideology. Besides, It's not supported biblical.

I don't normally care to do this ..a lot of quotes..but here goes...

none.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Job 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.

Job 15:14,16 What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, …

Job 25:4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that …

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: …

Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, …

Mark 7:21,22 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, …

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but …

1 Corinthians 6:9,10 Know you not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of …

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, …

Ephesians 2:1-3 And you has he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins…

Ephesians 5:3-6 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not …

Colossians 3:5-9 Mortify therefore your members which are on the earth; fornication, …

1 Timothy 1:9,10 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for …

2 Timothy 3:2-5 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, …

Titus 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, …

1 John 1:8-10 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth …

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, …

Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and fornicators, and murderers, …

As I have stated..in quoting "Democide" You do not have to go back that far into history to see men's violent streak taking place..for much of it is taking place right now..today...in the last 100 years...among men of science, intellect, wisdom, sophistication, illumination, and enlightenment.

Once one knows this...in times of science...it makes your time warp technique look silly. Same too with your blame game and guilt manipulations. The differernce here and on this thread..is that you ran into someone who does not buy into the argument on which you are trying to default on the readers.

What is happening today..does not speak well for the natural goodness of mankind or men. And the readers need to know and see this pattern taking place out here.


As I tried to state...you attempt and expect to default through ..on mans definition of good. I will stick to God's definition of Good.



Prezbo369 ,

All we have in common is our lack of belief in gods.......are you able to digest and comprehend this?

I have known this from the first of my posts on this thread.

Why wouldn't someone be able to argue those claims? is this your attempt at shutting down any descending voices?

The fact you dodged the questions completely says everything about the true strength of your 'faith'....

And also:

More fake astonishment.....WOWOWWOWW!!!

p.s. why do people choose to write their name at the end of every single post? seems very narcissistic....

I offer here and have stated in previous posts that I will offer a different view and understanding of how things are out here ..and always have been. Not shut down dissenting voices. ( I believe you meant dissenting...not decending)

For that would go against the T&C here.

By your posts and posting method ..you have some skill in debate. The last part of your quote above does not do you credit or service and illustrates a level of decompensating. You can do better than that in a debate forum.

It is I who is supposed to be hanging on your puppet strings..and losing my temper out here..swearing and using "advanced language skills" in illustrating my points. Not you two. It is I who is supposed to be decompensating.

It appears that you two are accustomed to dealing with sugar...not salt.

Thanks to all for their posts,
Orangetom

a reply to: AinElohim


Wow!!! Great post AinElohim. That is is the Eastern Orthadox line from which the Word is carried to the world is precisely what I learned after a lot of study.

It is surprising as well as pleasing to see that someone else knows it as well.

The assumption which is often made is that Rome automatically by default represents all of Christianity. I can see this pattern quickly when reading about religion in magazines like Time..they make this very assumption...Rome is all of Christianity...by default.

I do not believe this once I learned of the existence of the churches which did not adhere to Rome..and that it was many of these surviving churches which Rome tired to purge and get rid of them in the Inquisition.

I am not into Plato as I know that Plato is the carefully "crafted" format by which socialism and communism and the anti god religions are being promoted today...and without ever mentioning socialism and communism. This verses Socrates and Aristotle.


I am also aware of the various versions of the Word which are in existence and of their becoming more common once the printing press became available.

Here about 30 miles northwest of me is Jamestown, Virginia where they used the Great English Bible after their arrival in 1607.

I am also very aware of what the Puritans did for us and this nation ..with their Civil War in England, Oliver Cromwell, and the Beheading of Charles 1st in 1649...more than a hundred years before the founding of this nation.

These Puritans left us a very important precedent which was known to the founders here..in deciding to turn on their king. They, the Puritans, brought this knowledge/precedent over with them as well as left it's mark on history.

Someone world wide..and in public education today does not want this history ever known or taught to young people today.....EVER!!! For this history could never have occurred under Rome and Plato...not possible.

Yes..indeed..Koine Greek and Hebrew.

Great posts,
Thanks,
Orangetom

a reply to: orangetom1999

Oh! I get it Orangetom. You think that the only applicable value in the Bible, other than all the verses that condemn mankind, is what Paul wrote. Paul, who never met Jesus and clearly claims that every single bit of information he presents about "Christ" came from "revelation". In other words, Paul heard voices in his head and claimed them to be divine.

A "Will and Testament" is written or dictated by the person who is to die, BEFORE, they die. A Will and Testament that's channeled by a medium after death isn't a legal Will and Testament. You should know that!

None of what you've listed, in two posts of biblical quotes, NOT ONE on those quotes are from your savior Jesus Christ. And you seem to think that those quotes trump what your GOD and your SAVIOR have said in your Holy Book! And, by the way, the New Testament begins with the divine impregnation of the virgin Mary, not with Saul of Tarsus' supposed conversion.

God didn't require a blood sacrifice from a perfect (sacrificial lamb) human being, being unjustly murdered because of fear and ignorance. God forgives because of obedience and good works. That is promised throughout the Bible, Old Testament and New.

Jesus the Nazarene didn't teach the message of condemnation. He said "Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven." Jesus didn't die for our sins, he taught that when we forgive others, our sins are forgiven. He taught that in order to "inherit" the Kingdom of God, one must do good works, and he taught that the Kingdom of God is within. How can the Kingdom of God be within, if we are all evil inside? Someones lying here!

a reply to: AinElohim

the definitive proof that Eastern Orthodoxy is the original flavor and not Roman Catholicism would simply be Thomas Aquinas, who achieved Sainthood in Catholicism, his miraculous teachings were of the Greek Aristotelian persuasion. All of this before the reformation which is an amazing factual truth in itself.

Aristotle's logic has been proven to be less than perfect and Thomas Aquinas was a bigot who wrapped his hate in religious justification.



Whereas Plato and the Neoplatonic philosophies are what truly shaped the Christian theme of the LOGOS.



For example, Plato thought that all of creation was made up of 4 different "atoms".

Plato insisted that the cosmos was not eternal but was created, although its creator framed it after an eternal, unchanging model.

One part of that creation were the four simple bodies of fire, air, water, and earth. But Plato did not consider these corpuscles to be the most basic level of reality, for in his view they were made up of an unchanging level of reality, which was mathematical. These simple bodies were geometric solids, the faces of which were, in turn, made up of triangles. The square faces of the cube were each made up of four isosceles right-angled triangles and the triangular faces of the tetrahedron, octahedron, and icosahedron were each made up of six right-angled triangles.

Aristotle rejected "atomic theory", in favor of a "purposeful" creation.

Sometime before 330 BC Aristotle asserted that the elements of fire, air, earth, and water were not made of atoms, but were continuous. Aristotle considered the existence of a void, which was required by atomic theories, to violate physical principles. Change took place not by the rearrangement of atoms to make new structures, but by transformation of matter from what it was in potential to a new actuality. (This theory is called hylomorphism.) A piece of wet clay, when acted upon by a potter, takes on its potential to be an actual drinking mug. Aristotle has often been criticized for rejecting atomism, but in ancient Greece the atomic theories of Democritus remained "pure speculations, incapable of being put to any experimental test. Granted that atomism was, in the long run, to prove far more fruitful than any qualitative theory of matter, in the short run the theory that Aristotle proposed must have seemed in some respects more promising

SOURCE

So, from what I understand, Plato believed that the universe was an imperfect model of a perfect reality. Plato's reality was constantly changing, but was based on a perfect, unchangeable reality.

Whereby, Aristotle thought that the creation was deliberately created, like a potter makes a mug from clay. In Aristotle's view, change occurs because of God's purposeful will.

Christian creationist and intelligent design advocate, William Lane Craig, uses Aristotle's argument to prove his theory that the universe has a purpose, and that God created the universe for a purpose. He ignores the Platonic viewpoint that the universe arose as a byproduct of God's perfection, and has no real purpose.

So Plato, when he saw, say an elephant, he said that is only an elephant temporarily. The elephant is only a temporary imperfect expression of a basic perfection. Soon that basic expression will be expressed as something else. Aristotle said that the elephant was an elephant because God made an elephant, and that the elephant has a purpose.

I think science shows that Plato was more correct. The elephant is a temporary arrangement of atoms, that exists in an evolutionary process, that arises as a byproduct of a perfect reality.

Both philosophers believed in a creator, but saw the method and the nature of creation differently. Plato was proven to be correct, although there are many more than 4 elements, we now know that fire, air, water and earth are not basic elements.

How does Aristotlean thought reflect in the Christian / Pauline theology on say, original sin? If God purposefully created his creation, why is sin part of creation?

a reply to: orangetom1999

Not only Inquisition but the Crusades against Constantinople by the western empire.

It becomes quite clear considering the Byzantines referred to the latin west as unlearned barbarians.

The seven churches of Asia are addressed in the opening books of Revelation, I will have to look into it but I don't remember reading anything about Latin Catholicism beyond the original mentioning of the Pope in the Geneva Bible.

1560 version to a great extent only in Revelation. For example, the beast from the bottomless pit in Rev. 11:7 is explained as "the Pope, which hath his power out of hell and cometh thence."

And even more so clear where the cult of Islam got their monotheistic ideas from, the only god the Arabs didn't have in the Kaaba at the time was the only god that wasn't there among their 360 polytheistic idols. The one true God who was not an idol, the God of Abraham.

windword,

Oh! I get it Orangetom. You think that the only applicable value in the Bible, other than all the verses that condemn mankind, is what Paul wrote. Paul, who never met Jesus and clearly claims that every single bit of information he presents about "Christ" came from "revelation". In other words, Paul heard voices in his head and claimed them to be divine.

LOL LOL LOL....Wow!! Your really stretching here. You are giving me to asking how far you are going down the decompensating road. NO matter.

I stated we are to know the Olde Testament...as it is intended as our schoolmaster. And If I recall..some of the quotes in the previous post I made were from the Olde Testament.

You have a serious problem with what you post ...many of the Apostles were put to the stake or cross or execution for what they taught and did not recant. You can also find this in John Fox and his book of Martyrs. For they went to the stake not recanting. And this includes Paul.

There are lots of things to know in the Olde Testament....by pattern ..if not also by details.

Ever heard of a British General named Orde Charles Wingate?? What he did was train the Israelis in their early days to fight scientifically. But he was also a serious Biblical Scholar..and as a result of his study of the Bible and its application to the land then known as Palestine...he was able to apply scientific methods and understanding and also Biblical teachings of the Olde Testament Battles to teach the Haganah how to fight and how it applies to that terrain from the Bible battles.
Ord Wingate is remembered and honored today by Israelis for what he taught them and by this the nation survived those early difficult times.

The point is that there is way more to the Word/Bible than that for which you provincially post here.

A "Will and Testament" is written or dictated by the person who is to die, BEFORE, they die. A Will and Testament that's channeled by a medium after death isn't a legal Will and Testament. You should know that!

Problem is ...no one but you is so claiming. If I want mediums ..I go down to Virginia Beach about 35 miles south of me and visit the Edgar Caycee museum. Or the various palm readers who have set up shop about town.

None of what you've listed, in two posts of biblical quotes, NOT ONE on those quotes are from your savior Jesus Christ. And you seem to think that those quotes trump what your GOD and your SAVIOR have said in your Holy Book! And, by the way, the New Testament begins with the divine impregnation of the virgin Mary, not with Saul of Tarsus' supposed conversion.

Wow!!! I did not state that the New Testament began with Saul's conversion. Nor Mary's impregnation. I said it was the death of the Testator which was to usher in the New Testament.

God didn't require a blood sacrifice from a perfect (sacrificial lamb) human being, being unjustly murdered because of fear and ignorance. God forgives because of obedience and good works. That is promised throughout the Bible, Old Testament and New.

Wow again...more Wow!! You do know that in line with shadows and types...the Hebrews observed certain of the lambs to see if they were without blemsh. They are today planning and practicing to clone a red hefer ..without blemish..to sacrifice when they get the temple mount back ..right???

The idea is that it was only for a time..until it was decreed that it would be over...only a shadow and type until the perfect lamb would come for the sins of his people...just in like manner to the High Priest who would enter the temple with the blood of the lamb without blemish and sprinkle it on his footsteps to cleans the way to the holy of holies in the temple. The New Testament would be ushered in upon the death of the Testator...without blemish..an innocent lamb.

We are forgiven because He chose us and covered us with His Blood....nothing else. When we stand before Him He had better see the Blood covering us..not our works.

We do works because we are His. Not to get saved. You are teaching and preaching here the doctrine of the pagans ..once saved...almost saved.

Hebrews tells of this Olde Temple sacrafices not being sufficient to wash away the sins of the people..but were only a shadow and type of things to come.

Jesus the Nazarene didn't teach the message of condemnation. He said "Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven." Jesus didn't die for our sins, he taught that when we forgive others, our sins are forgiven. He taught that in order to "inherit" the Kingdom of God, one must do good works, and he taught that the Kingdom of God is within. How can the Kingdom of God be within, if we are all evil inside? Someones lying here!

We forgive others because we are His...after Him..not to get saved. Indeed someone is lying here.

The Kingdom of God is within because of Him Living in us. That is what it means to Believe..to be living. This means not just in the pumper...but in Life..and that is also one of His names...Life, Blood, Savior..Peace..Faith.
As the olde ones teach....we are accepted in the blood..but He does the accepting. Made acceptable..by His will ..not ours.

To say Peace be with you is to say Jesus be with you. To Believe...to be living..not in the world but after Him.

Not in works..but much much more than that.


Orangetom

a reply to: orangetom1999

Look, I don't care what you believe or how you justify it. I will ALWAYS argue against anyone who promotes self hatred and the theme that mankind is void of "goodness" and that there is no goodness in life or in the world. That is not what the Bible teaches, up until you get to the rabid ravings about original sin and innate human evil based on the hallucinations of Paul.

11For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

You can do your mental gymnastics all you want, but you're not impressing me in the least. You continue to ignore and omit the teachings of the your savior and the words of your God promising acceptance and telling us to be "good".

The words and teachings of the biblical Jesus the Nazarene stand on their own. No expansion, twisting or explaining by the the self appointed apostle, who contradicts the teachings of the Jesus, in favor of his vision of "Christ", is just worthless ramblings of a clever 1st century con-man.

a reply to: InSatanIsisServes

It is not Ellines who brought Christianity, it is Agio Oros lol

Did you know that Agio Oros in Ellas, is a different state? You need your passport to travel there, thats why they dont pay tax as well.

Did you know that the first sunday of the 40 days before Easter, is a big celebration for Christianity and they recall the ANATHEMA.
You know who is the condemned? Ellines ofcourse. They hate Ellin and this celebration is ANATHEMA to all ellines.

My country had many wars, we even had an age that it was prohibited to call us with our original naming (Ellinas) it was a banned word, they hate us, so much. Thats why the old generations, who grow up in missery and wars, they believed whatever you told them.

What happens now is, globalists (abominations) are against christianity, because we have the cross as a symbol. The cross as a symbol belong to DIAS - Zeus. They took it in ancient years and used it, to humiliate the symbol, with sacrifices (crucifixions) and their magick and it ended be the symbol of Christianity later on. So, we ellines even if we are, or NOT Christians, we always have our cross, everywhere and thats why they mostly hate christians. They dont hate the israeli flag that is a religius symbol, they dont hate the moon that is a religius symbol, they hate the cross, anything has to do with the cross.. If christians abandoned their cross forever, snakes would love jesus. They fear and hate the cross, our father. And the cross saved hummanity for up to date, thats why a war is coming.

The majority of the population in my country today are christians true, but what matters most, is your heart and the personality you are, what kind of human you are. Not where you believe at, because thats how they taught you to be and act. So there is no blame there. We respect each other beliefs and choices and the only disagreement we may have, is the prophecies. You know, they use prophecies in order to scare people, drain from them and we dont let them. We argue allot in that thing. Because their thing, is not our thing.

a reply to: windword

all subjective windword...

who's book or perfect solid is correct?

Whereas Plato and the Neoplatonic philosophies are what truly shaped the Christian theme of the LOGOS.

yes I do see that applies to our particular flavor of reality... but what about others in this world?

Plato is dictatorship applied to governmental systems.

www.e-ir.info...

a reply to: AinElohim

It's true that Plato, as well as other philosophers, thought that society should be dictated by philosophers and not politicians or average minded people. But, Plato's Republic doesn't represent his work on atomic theory or his theory of the "pure" being reflected through and manifesting in this realm as imperfect.

The Christian ideology of the LOGOS comes directly from platonic philosophy.

a reply to: windword

the republic is frightful in a secular nation, it can go wrong in a flash... eg; Stalin, Mao, ect.

the average person is infinitely smarter than a room full of the smartest people in the world.



only God has that right, and it is how we keep our governments in check.

I value the individual (individualism) and Objectivism.

Objectivism is just Aristotle which is woven with individualism...

In my opinion Rand has her flaws, I can never agree with someone 100% unless it was like the second coming or something.

There is a fine balance to everything I think and no one political ideology ever seems to work, or if it has worked in history is was either oppressive in one form or another or it didn't last long.

I like the idea of an ongoing democracy tempered with objective individualism.

a reply to: AinElohim

only God has that right, and it is how we keep our governments in check.

Which god and whose god?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: AinElohim

AinElohim:
only God has that right, and it is how we keep our governments in check.

windword: Which god and whose god?

Which ever one you choose to create for yourself as your personal self definition define it, nurture it give it a definition and ORDER IT into your consciousness (it created you and believe it or not you can create IT). One of Gods problems is that no one seems to think it exists. Everyone wants proof of its existence. It has a problem, the notion (by you) to have to prove Itself to Itself (the proof is that you as Gods expression exist within a very complex ecosystem that you as humans are parasites praying upon the balance (humans are NOT NEEDED). The Human was a gift to Itself, the highest form of creation God could imagine ITSELF TO BE AS A MATERIAL ENTITY 3D on earth (you have opposable thumbs). What is your gripe? Don't blame Religious Dogmatic systems (by convience) to thwart your inward path to knowing your personalized IKEA creator (available now at a discounted rate).

originally posted by: AinElohim
a reply to: windword

the republic is frightful in a secular nation, it can go wrong in a flash... eg; Stalin, Mao, ect.

the average person is infinitely smarter than a room full of the smartest people in the world.

only God has that right, and it is how we keep our governments in check.

Wow!!! That is precisely the conclusion to which I came...not so much by reading Plato...I have avoided it but take the word of certain preachers/ministes who have not lead me wrong through years of reseach..particularly through the lecture series on "The Ever War."


midnight-emissary.com...

Now this minister teaches on Philosophy, logic, reason, and teaches both Christianity and also Occult religious system and thus through a view of the Word..such that the reader or listener can see this through the prism of history and how it shaped the world and continues to so do today. How it shaped public education through philosophers like Descartes, Hume, Spenoza and others taught today as the way to go. Also the difference in Aristotle and Plato.

What he teaches is what you just posted...in that the Socialist, Communist, pattern of today ..strong state control is based on Plato's philosophy and beliefs through "The Republic." and Aristotle is cast to the side...along with the Word.

There is a lot of religious material in this lecture series..but a lot of worldly philosophy by which to compare what is in the Word.

This minister follows the Textus Receptus pattern not the patterns from Rome or Alexandria so popular in the new versions.



By the way..I just posted this on another thread and am going to link it here for you. You might find it interesting..definitely different.

But it is what the teaching of this minister and others before him have taught me about the Word and how to view the world around us through it and where it would lead us.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Thanks,
Orangetom

If you believe the bible is the word of god, then you would have to take it all. Take the evil genocide, slavery, mass rape, infanticide etc...of the old testament, along with the even more evil infinite torture of the new testament.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: AinElohim

only God has that right, and it is how we keep our governments in check.

Which god and whose god?

yes my nation is secular, but it is no secret which God the founders learned their individualistic values from, and committed the principal directly into the founding documents of my nation. I have heard it said that Christ wanted no church in his name?

the Deceleration of Independence and the Constitution of the USA are theistic documents...

you can go down to the Capitol Rotunda and look up inside the dome wondering which God the 'founding' father of my nation looked to.

George Washington was the first subscriber featured in the Brown's Family Bible, one of the first Bible's printed in the USA... the subscriber list in the beginning reads like a who's who of the founding fathers.