Christians, are violent old testament verses relevant to your beliefs today?

originally posted by: rokkuman

what exactly are we supposed to think of people who do not condemn old testament slaughter of women and children according to you?

I don't really care what you think.
You asked a question I gave an honest answer with reasons why I gave said answer, that you chose not to address at all, because you don't believe in God as I understand him.
Because you don't believe in God the way that I do, of course you don't think he might know something that you don't.
You were just waiting for a christian to say something you could insult them with.
I get it you hate religion.
I don't care if you hate religion or God or me or anything else to be honest.
Fact is a troll thread is a troll thread. *shrug*

a reply to: Punisher75

Fact is a troll thread is a troll thread. *shrug*

your not the first christian to dismiss threads criticising the barbaric biblical religion as "troll threads" and you certainly wont be the last. *yawn*

originally posted by: drevill

The violence is a war and you can compare to to any war. When you understand the premise you understand the action.

so slaughtering women and children in wars is acceptable because you think God ordered it?

so then you shouldnt have a real problem when IS kill women and children because they too believe God ordered it.

But I guess you are going to tell me that killing women and children is acceptable only if your God orders it.

originally posted by: rokkuman
a reply to: Punisher75

Fact is a troll thread is a troll thread. *shrug*

your not the first christian to dismiss threads criticising the barbaric biblical religion as "troll threads" and you certainly wont be the last. *yawn*

Good non answer.
So tell me in what way was this thread not a troll thread?
You have so far been pretty unable to say anything without trying to be inflammatory beginning at your first post. where you begin with, "Your so called "holy bible" drips with the blood of men, women, children, infants and old people slaughtered by Old Testament warlords."

The scare quotes are a nice touch around Holy Bible.
So you see its not a dismissal... if it were I would not have responded in the first place, its a simple observation.

a reply to: Punisher75

So tell me in what way was this thread not a troll thread?

I dont think many people take seriously your allegation that asking questions about bible violence amounts to making troll threads.

You have so far been pretty unable to say anything without trying to be inflammatory beginning at your first post. where you begin with, "Your so called "holy bible" drips with the blood of men, women, children, infants and old people slaughtered by Old Testament warlords."

thats because its 100% true. you even admitted you would not condemn it. completely repulsive and disgusting to say the least.

originally posted by: rokkuman

thats because its 100% true. you even admitted you would not condemn it. completely repulsive and disgusting to say the least.

In what way does my unwillingness to condemn God on page 12 of a thread have anything to do with the OP on page 1?
Its cool man I get it trolls are gonna troll.

originally posted by: Punisher75

originally posted by: rokkuman

thats because its 100% true. you even admitted you would not condemn it. completely repulsive and disgusting to say the least.

In what way does my unwillingness to condemn God on page 12 of a thread have anything to do with the OP on page 1?

you are unwilling to condemn violence of killing women and children as recorded in the bible.
I get it you christians think killing helpless women and kids is acceptable only if its "biblical". christians only pretend to be innocent peaceful sheep when deep down..... well this thread has shown what christians are deep down.

originally posted by: rokkuman

you are unwilling to condemn violence of killing women and children as recorded in the bible.
I get it you christians think killing helpless women and kids is acceptable only if its "biblical". christians only pretend to be innocent peaceful sheep when deep down..... well this thread has shown what christians are deep down.

And this has what to do with the OP not being a troll thread again?

originally posted by: Punisher75

originally posted by: rokkuman

you are unwilling to condemn violence of killing women and children as recorded in the bible.
I get it you christians think killing helpless women and kids is acceptable only if its "biblical". christians only pretend to be innocent peaceful sheep when deep down..... well this thread has shown what christians are deep down.

And this has what to do with the OP not being a troll thread again?

obviously christians are going to call threads questioning bible brutality troll threads. guess they feel thats easier than having to seriously question and revaluate their beliefs centered around their so called holy book that contains sick verses like this one

Numbers 31:17
Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

what a disgusting book and you say you refuse to condemn this kind of violence?

originally posted by: rokkuman


obviously christians are going to call threads questioning bible brutality troll threads. guess they feel thats easier than having to seriously question and revaluate their beliefs centered around their so called holy book that contains sick verses like this one

Numbers 31:17
Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

what a disgusting book and you say you refuse to condemn this kind of violence?

LOL Dude I addressed the passages you gave, then gave the reason I will not condemn them.

So I am not real sure why you seem to think that I don't know what the text says. Not a single time have I tried to avoid the text at all.
No I am not ashamed to say I trust that God knows the future and I have faith that he knows why he made the choices he did when he gave the orders to kill those people.

However none of that changes that the thread was designed to inflame people.
Let me try to make this as crystal clear as I can.

I do not have any doubts that the text says what it clearly says.
I do not doubt that God ordered the death of men women and children.

HOWEVER, nor do I doubt that God had a good reason to do so.
And if that don't disgust you enough I don't really care one way or another if he had a good reason or not.
Why?
Because he is God and I am not.
He can do whatever he wants with his creation.
He can Create and he can destroy at his leisure if he wants. Because we belong to him. He is the potter we are the clay. I do not know if I can make myself any more clear.
Simply put, I will not, nor can I Judge God.
Why ?
Because he decides what is objectively right and wrong, and when its right and wrong, not me.

You made a Thread and I assume you wanted honest answers. I gave them.
Now just be honest and admit you made the thread to troll.
You wont.
Why?
Because trolls gotta troll.

a reply to: Punisher75

You made a Thread and I assume you wanted honest answers. I gave them.
Now just be honest and admit you made the thread to troll.

I made the thread to know if old testament verses are relevant to the christian religion that is advertised falsely as a religion of 'love the enemy'.

Your so called "honest answer" was that you refuse to condemn the barbaric slaughter of women and children.
honest yes but also bone chilling.

originally posted by: rokkuman

I made the thread to know if old testament verses are relevant to the christian religion that is advertised falsely as a religion of 'love the enemy'.

Your so called "honest answer" was that you refuse to condemn the barbaric slaughter of women and children.
honest yes but also bone chilling.

No you began the thread using the tried and true scare quotes around the words Holy Bible and ended your first post with
"I guess barbaric violence is only acceptable if your team does it, right?"

I.E. it had nothing to do with wanting to know anything, but had everything with wanting to make a statement.
Stop being so intellectually dishonest, and just admit and accept your being a troll.

originally posted by: Punisher75

originally posted by: rokkuman

I made the thread to know if old testament verses are relevant to the christian religion that is advertised falsely as a religion of 'love the enemy'.

Your so called "honest answer" was that you refuse to condemn the barbaric slaughter of women and children.
honest yes but also bone chilling.

No you began the thread using the tried and true scare quotes around the words Holy Bible and ended your first post with
"I guess barbaric violence is only acceptable if your team does it, right?"

I.E. it had nothing to do with wanting to know anything, but had everything with wanting to make a statement.
Stop being so intellectually dishonest, and just admit and accept your being a troll.

of course a believer in a 2000 year old book of twisted tales would call anybody questioning their book a troll.

its doesnt change the fact that your disgusting so-called "holy" bible teaches God ordered the slaughter of women and children. whats even worse is that you stop short of condemning such brutality. just wow.

and yes I stand by my statement ""I guess barbaric violence is only acceptable if your team does it" that I addressed towards christians because it is 100% true. as proved by your posts saying you will not condemn it.

originally posted by: rokkuman

of course a believer in a 2000 year old book of twisted tales would call anybody questioning their book a troll.

its doesnt change the fact that your disgusting so-called "holy" bible teaches God ordered the slaughter of women and children. whats even worse is that you stop short of condemning such brutality. just wow.

and yes I stand by my statement ""I guess barbaric violence is only acceptable if your team does it" that I addressed towards christians because it is 100% true. as proved by your posts saying you will not condemn it.

Yea see and this post goes on to continue the trolling, with the whole "disgusting so-called "holy" bible" stuff because we all know that is not meant to inflame an argument or anything.

It's Cool man, you don't have to admit you are trolling, it's your game play it like you want.
I gave you a few chances to man up and admit it but you either can't or won't.
I am just gonna let you be, I try to keep my conversations to people who at least want to be honest but you don't seem to be able to do that sadly.
Anyway,
Have a nice day.

originally posted by: Punisher75

originally posted by: rokkuman

of course a believer in a 2000 year old book of twisted tales would call anybody questioning their book a troll.

its doesnt change the fact that your disgusting so-called "holy" bible teaches God ordered the slaughter of women and children. whats even worse is that you stop short of condemning such brutality. just wow.

and yes I stand by my statement ""I guess barbaric violence is only acceptable if your team does it" that I addressed towards christians because it is 100% true. as proved by your posts saying you will not condemn it.

Yea see and this post goes on to continue the trolling, with the whole "disgusting so-called "holy" bible" stuff because we all know that is not meant to inflame an argument or anything.

every sane person would call the "holy" bible disgusting because of its violent content theres no two ways about it. just because christians refuse to condemn that vile book doesnt mean the rest of us with our heads in place shouldnt call it for what it is - disgusting.

I am just gonna let you be, I try to keep my conversations to people who at least want to be honest but you don't seem to be able to do that sadly.

and I will keep my conversations to people who have the humanity and decency to condemn violence. given your refusal to condemn bible violence you dont fit the bill and I certainly dont need the likes of you even wishing me a "nice day".

a reply to: rokkuman

I don't think Islam is the truth. If I thought that my own faith would be pointless. that said, I believe everything happens according to Gods will and game plan. I don't have to like it, just trust him.

Re the women and children. I am married and have three kids under 6yrs. The worst feeling for an parent is the fear of losing a child and then a spouse, or some hurt being done to them. However. I trust in the Lord to reunite them to me in a glorious Kingdom with no fear and sorrow etc.

In answer to your question. If God wills it, then so be it. I can't help asking why or not liking things though.
Islam is not following the living God and Allah is not the God of the bible. In my opinion.

originally posted by: rokkumanoriginally posted by: veteranhumanbeing
originally posted by: rokkumanoriginally posted by: veteranhumanbeing
originally posted by: rokkuman

Rokkuman:
While I am most aware of the threat posed by radical Islam its most laughable whenever Christians point fingers at islamic violence. Its a complete pot/kettle moment. This is thread addresses self righteous christians who point fingers at islamic violence when their own so called holy book advocates genocidal violence and the slaughter of children. since you brought up koran you might be surprised to know that the koran does not have any instructions to kill women and children thereby making the koran more "peaceful" than the bible.

VHB: I do not know of any passage in the Bible that calls for the complete 'elimination'/jihadist action upon any/all of those (except women and children) who do not subscribe to Judeo/Christian ideology/tenants.

Rokkuman: Then you dont know the bible enough. The bible records God ordering the Israelites to kill the women and children of the enemy who happened to worship someone else.

Why would YOU assume I do not know the Bible ENOUGH. You are telling me some God (as devised by itself) says "kill these persons" (that are not of my creation some other God created them). Seriously? The "Israelites" killed whom's women and children exactly; which enemy? I thought mono theism was the "NEW CRAZE" (now we have a duality in God form duking it out using races of humans to show strength). THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD (and it shows no favoritism) PROOVE IT OTHERWISE (an Allah/YWHY/Jehovah duality).

VHBYou realize the Koran is teaching this: kill all people who are not Muslims;

Rokkhuman:yes. we agree on something!

my point is that the bible is even more violent and so bible reading christians are hypocrites for parading as innocent sheep when in reality their so called holy book is filled with brutality that is not found even in the Koran.

No, WE DO NOT AGREE on SOMETHING/ANYTHING AT ALL. I believe in NEITHER DOCTRINE (both are ripe for misinterpretation) and here is what you are missing/kissing with your exuberance. There is an allowance for miss understanding within these testamonials; as both are vague and left to the imagination/understanding/poetry/metaphor of those reading the texts ON PURPOSE (god is looking for the most discriminating/not the most murderous).There is a huge problem here; anyone can interpret the scripture/tenants to be what they wish/imagine them to be and that apparently includes having to listen to the voice of the most intelligent camel within the herd that "speechifies them" (the guy that can read; has the Koran in hand).

originally posted by: Punisher75
originally posted by: rokkuman

rokkuman

f course a believer in a 2000 year old book of twisted tales would call anybody questioning their book a troll.
its doesnt change the fact that your disgusting so-called "holy" bible teaches God ordered the slaughter of women and children. whats even worse is that you stop short of condemning such brutality. just wow.and yes I stand by my statement ""I guess barbaric violence is only acceptable if your team does it" that I addressed towards christians because it is 100% true. as proved by your posts saying you will not condemn it.

Barbaric? as in only you as a dictator can vote; THAT IS ONE VOTE ENOUGH to re-elect you. Moslem/mankind is basically enslaved in the Sharia Law tradition and men can only appear in public only if 'shrowded' and you think this is NORMAL? The women can have many husbands as they can afford; (men cannot walk in the streets openly) only if showded and accompanied by their man servants (to be fair every husband must be treated equally; as in each one gets a Mercedes; just cannot drive them; have chauffeurs to ferry them around to the shopping malls). What century do you live in? You realize ENTROPY IS or that which will prevail KNOWN AS PROGRESS HAPPENS (YOU HAVE NO OPTION/ALTERNATIVES)(YOU HAVE NO CHOICE). Let me tell you this, you as a civilization are not PROFITABLE; your idea form is A DEAD END(a waste of time/been there done that in innumerable historical conflicts NOTHING NEW TO TELL OR LEARN FROM) a minor footnote in history.

originally posted by: rokkuman

Your so called "holy bible" drips with the blood of men, women, children, infants and old people slaughtered by Old Testament warlords. Im sure you Bible experts know the verses Im talking about so don't ask me for citations. While I am most aware of the threat posed by radical Islam its most laughable whenever Christians point fingers at islamic violence. Its a complete pot/kettle moment.

"But biblical violence happened in the past"

If it is purely a "past" thing, then what are those nasty verses from the past doing in your Bibles in this age? Or do you retain then because they are somehow relevant to your theology? If so, then don't bother telling me the details because Christians and Muslims fall in the same category.

If those verses are not relevant to you then I dare you to rip out them out of the Bible since you don't need them anymore in the 21st century. Then, at least have the integrity to admit that bible violence and genocide was a bad thing. But nooo you're going to justify it or tell me that its a good thing because God ordered it or something.

I guess barbaric violence is only acceptable if your team does it, right?

Oh...boy..here we go again. The very same kind of pablum so often posted here with predictability and the standard time warp technique of guilt conditioning and guilt manipulation.

Our own President just tried this one at the Prayer Breakfast the other day as something wise and intellectual. Very few people were dumb enough to buy into it...on both the left and right.

You do not have to go way back into history to find evidence of very violent events and mass killings.

I have posted this numerous times now on ATS when I tire of this standard issue guilt conditioning showing a drastic lack of historical perspective.

Here from Democide...death by democracy...by R J Rummel..Phd.

en.wikipedia.org...

Here this quote from the article...you do not have to go back that far into history..in recent history there is evidence of violence among scientific, intellectual, educated gnostic wise men...sophists...the time of science.

His research shows that the death toll from democide is far greater than the death toll from war. After studying over 8,000 reports of government-caused deaths, Rummel estimates that there have been 262 million victims of democide in the last century. According to his figures, six times as many people have died from the actions of people working for governments than have died in battle.

Far more people have been killed in the time of science and intellect running things than in times past and at a much faster rate than in history past. And this is only in the last 100 years.

This view and understanding is not taught to people today in order for the standard guilt politics and anti religious beliefs to default through unquestioned and unchallanged. Once you see this kind of article it makes a mockery of science...education and intellect so boasted about by the "Enlightened" on these boards.

What is so astonishing to me is that even Ministers today do not teach this to their flocks and thus leaving them totally unarmored out here amongst the two legged wildlife of this world. It ought not to be so but it is indeed.

The technique so popular and standard issue among the intellects on these boards is to pick some event or history way past and then bring it up to today and hold Believers accountable for it...just as the President did at the prayer breakfast the other day. I call this the "time warp technique." They stick the listener/reader back in a time warp of history and then hold them accountable for it.

For those of you who do not know much history ..here is the key to the nonsense the President spewed out as if it were intellect and enlightenment ..it was neither.

Very few people know this about the Inquisition and the Crusades.

There is no such instruction for a New Testament Church to make conversions by burning people at the stake or by the sword. None. Any church which so carries on is not using Christian principles but using counterfeit doctrine..and thereby switched to a counterfeit god..a liar and deceiver. For no such instruction exists.


While I do not believe the Crusades were for the reasons advertised in the history books...there is also no reason to go back to the middle east nor Jerusalem after 70 ad and the destruction of a whole nation and temple...and people. Nothing holy about that place after 70 ad nor today. Nothing.

What is not told to us unless you look it up in history ...is that the Muslims were on the move into Europe in the late 600s and into the early 700s AD. They were stopped in their invasion at a place called Tours, France by Charles the Hammer or also known as Charles Martel.

The Muslims were invading Europe for the purpose of conquest some 400 years before the first Crusade. Astonishing to me that someone would cry wolf as such about the Crusades while avoiding totally the other history. Did the President tell you this history while preying on your guilt??? Think it through ..it fits.

en.wikipedia.org...

Do not ever let an unbeliever push you into a corner over the Inquisition or the Crusades now that you know this information.

I offer this free..no cover charge. Book mark these sites or links for future reference. You are going to need them on sites like this one with such pseudo intellects hanging out their wares and counting on your ignorance to get away with theirs.

And don't let them back you into a corner with such second hand guilt programming and guilt default techniques.

Hope this helps some of you.


Another thing..violence is a staple of the holly wood crowd while decrying violence and gun issues. They sell this stuff in movies aplenty to totally unarmed and unthinking people...sex and violence...a steady diet of this pablum.
And people watch this stuff with a devout religious zeal...a steady diet of it.

When you know this ..it makes posts like the OP incredibly dumb. What is even dumber..is that Washington DC has it's head up the backside of Hollywood and Hollywood has it's head up the backside of Washington DC.

Are any of you catching on yet..as to how dumb it is to decry violence and morality under such conditions ??? Even by leadership. They are both looking for votes and willing to sell the public to pablum to get these votes.

One has to go to public schools to become so dumb that they miss out on this recent history and pablum trying to pass for intellect. It is none of these. It is professional chaos management ..guilt manipulations.

Hope this helps some of you out here who can still think for yourselves and have not been overtaken by a television and movie education in guilt manipulations..guilt default settings and practices.

Thanks,
Orangetom

a reply to: orangetom1999

HERE HERE; APPLAUSE (clapping/smacking hands together producing sound) a voice of reason; Blue Ribbon given.