How to Bog Down Russia in Crimea and Ukraine - All Ideas Welcome!

This thread is dedicated to brain storming ways of repelling the foreign Russian occupation of Ukraine and Crimea. In my opinion, if they are not stopped, World War 3 will begin here. It is a flashpoint conflict in a powder keg region because it will lead to outright mass scale conventional war between the World Powers (NATO, Russia and possibly China), none of that soft proxy war guerrilla style of combat that we have been witnessing in Syria for example. The unknown variable of nuclear weapons will be introduced and that will compound the difficult situation, either resulting in a protracted conventional war or a quick exchange of tactical nukes on the battlefield which could spread to North American and European cities. My friends, we are approaching the brink of something unimaginable.

The Crimean Tatars are an indigenous people of Crimea. They are a Turkic people who have traditionally lived in the Ukraine and Crimea for centuries upon centuries after being forcibly expelled from their traditional lands in what is now Russia. The Ottoman Empire along with its vassal the Crimean Khanate, were staunch allies of the British empire during the devastating wars against the Russians who suffered serious defeats but in the end were able to wrestle away the Crimean Khanate (modern day Crimea, Ukraine, south Russia and Moldova) from the Ottomans in the early 19th century.

There is deep historic animosity between Crimean Tatars and the Russians. Tatars are a large group of Turkic people that reside all over the world, and even though they have been forcibly integrated into Russian society as of today, they have long memories and still mourn their subjugation and harassment at the hands of both the Russian Tsars and the Bolsheviks/Communists.

With the right support, commitment and planning, we can definitely enlist Crimeans as trusted allies, even more so than the Kurds who have traditional enemies that complicates their regional ambitions. The only enemies of the Tatars, and Crimean Tatars specifically, are Russians. There are nearly 250,000 Crimean Tatars only in Crimea, and as of recently their harassment is starting to reach a new threshold as their media outlet, ATR, has been ransacked and all journalistic and broadcasting activities shut down. This might be enough to push them into action, but without global support, they don't want to be massacred in a defenseless position.

Plan of action:

1. Turn Crimea into Afghanistan for Russia. This will complicate their campaign in Ukraine and take a lot of burden off of the Ukrainian military and volunteers.

2. Establish a Crimean Tatar lobby with headquarters in a NATO country. A similar approach has been taken with East Turkestan in China. This will give the Crimeans an identity that isn't molded by Russian interests.

3. Large scale rioting and protests in Crimea. This will only happen when the Crimean Tatars know they are being supported by the West.

4. The Ukrainian Navy will have to open up a route through to Crimea. This is necessary in order to land troops and equipment for the Crimean separatists.

This in my opinion is the best way to complicate matters for Russia, and they know it is their soft underbelly and that is why they annexed it RIGHT AWAY with a massive naval presence. The Russian navy needs to start being hit in the Black Sea. If we allow the Russians to freely project power in the Black Sea, then we might as well hand them all of Ukraine like they want. The Turks have a naval presence in the south of the Black Sea. They need to take their eyes of ISIS and Syria for 2 seconds and start thinking about the much more pertinent threat to the north.

What do you guys think?

a reply to: Mehmet666Heineken

I think we should brain storm how we can get the US back to focus on its own country/nation instead of other people's offairs or getting involved in things.

Anyway, only way for Russia to back off Crimea would be if Crimean's do something about it. Any other nation or country intervening would mean war.

You want to START WW3 in order to stop WW3??

The west has already destroyed the Russian economy. The west starting a coup in Ukraine is how this all started and now you want to do it again in Crimea? Why? So the west can hurt Russia and then abandon Crimea like they did Ukraine after the west got all it wanted?

originally posted by: Kuroodo
a reply to: Mehmet666Heineken

I think we should brain storm how we can get the US back to focus on its own country/nation instead of other people's offairs or getting involved in things.

Anyway, only way for Russia to back off Crimea would be if Crimean's do something about it. Any other nation or country intervening would mean war.

I understand your perspective. And you made an EXCELLENT point about "the Crimeans need to do something, anyone else interfering would mean war"...

For one, I'm not a US citizen and this is a global issue. You are welcome to brain storm how to get the US back to focus on its own problems in another thread!

-Mehmet666Heineken

Sure is a risk for a nuclear war, and for what? because of that stupid country Ukraine? Yea that sure seems to be worth it!
I think we should all go on the streets, everyone and protest against all those stupid world leaders we have.
But of course that most likely will not happen and nothing we can do it seems.

Brzezinski elaborated, “…in early times, it was easier to control a million people, literally it was easier to control a million people than physically to kill a million people. Today, it is infinitely easier to kill a million people than to control a million people. It is easier to kill than to control….”.

Btw this guy was born in Ukraine!

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
You want to START WW3 in order to stop WW3??

The west has already destroyed the Russian economy. The west starting a coup in Ukraine is how this all started and now you want to do it again in Crimea? Why? So the west can hurt Russia and then abandon Crimea like they did Ukraine after the west got all it wanted?

Excellent point and yes I am aware that it is a bit of a juggle to avoid world war 3 even though it might get started because of Crimea. However we should keep it as covert as possible and use Ukraine as we already are to strike the Russians. We need to give their navy some teeth like the Russians are giving their separatists teeth.

originally posted by: Mehmet666Heineken

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
You want to START WW3 in order to stop WW3??

The west has already destroyed the Russian economy. The west starting a coup in Ukraine is how this all started and now you want to do it again in Crimea? Why? So the west can hurt Russia and then abandon Crimea like they did Ukraine after the west got all it wanted?

Excellent point and yes I am aware that it is a bit of a juggle to avoid world war 3 even though it might get started because of Crimea. However we should keep it as covert as possible and use Ukraine as we already are to strike the Russians. We need to give their navy some teeth like the Russians are giving their separatists teeth.

I think I would rather be allies with Russia. What is the benefit of NOT being allies with Russia?

a reply to: Plugin


So we let the Russians have their way? We leave the Ukrainians alone because Russia might spank us?

a reply to: Mehmet666Heineken

Though yes the US going back to its country would be a good thing for US citizens, it would also be a damn good thing for the rest of the world. But yeah my comment on the us was only an opinion and not one to be discussed in the op

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: Mehmet666Heineken

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
You want to START WW3 in order to stop WW3??

The west has already destroyed the Russian economy. The west starting a coup in Ukraine is how this all started and now you want to do it again in Crimea? Why? So the west can hurt Russia and then abandon Crimea like they did Ukraine after the west got all it wanted?

Excellent point and yes I am aware that it is a bit of a juggle to avoid world war 3 even though it might get started because of Crimea. However we should keep it as covert as possible and use Ukraine as we already are to strike the Russians. We need to give their navy some teeth like the Russians are giving their separatists teeth.

I think I would rather be allies with Russia. What is the benefit of NOT being allies with Russia?

How realistic is being allies with Russia at this juncture ? They clearly don't like the West/NATO...otherwise they wouldn't prop up Assad, empower Iran, and conduct long range bomber patrols over peaceful countries in a threatening manner!

a reply to: Kuroodo

No worries, your points were well taken in any case! Though if the US/NATO start withdrawing from their vested interests, who will fill the power vacuum? Terrorists, Russians and Chinese !

originally posted by: Mehmet666Heineken

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: Mehmet666Heineken

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
You want to START WW3 in order to stop WW3??

The west has already destroyed the Russian economy. The west starting a coup in Ukraine is how this all started and now you want to do it again in Crimea? Why? So the west can hurt Russia and then abandon Crimea like they did Ukraine after the west got all it wanted?

Excellent point and yes I am aware that it is a bit of a juggle to avoid world war 3 even though it might get started because of Crimea. However we should keep it as covert as possible and use Ukraine as we already are to strike the Russians. We need to give their navy some teeth like the Russians are giving their separatists teeth.

I think I would rather be allies with Russia. What is the benefit of NOT being allies with Russia?

How realistic is being allies with Russia at this juncture ? They clearly don't like the West/NATO...otherwise they wouldn't prop up Assad, empower Iran, and conduct long range bomber patrols over peaceful countries in a threatening manner!

The US propped up Assad. The US empowered Iran and conducts drone strikes all over the world.

You did not answer my question. Why is it better to NOT be allies with Russia?

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: Mehmet666Heineken

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: Mehmet666Heineken

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
You want to START WW3 in order to stop WW3??

The west has already destroyed the Russian economy. The west starting a coup in Ukraine is how this all started and now you want to do it again in Crimea? Why? So the west can hurt Russia and then abandon Crimea like they did Ukraine after the west got all it wanted?

Excellent point and yes I am aware that it is a bit of a juggle to avoid world war 3 even though it might get started because of Crimea. However we should keep it as covert as possible and use Ukraine as we already are to strike the Russians. We need to give their navy some teeth like the Russians are giving their separatists teeth.

I think I would rather be allies with Russia. What is the benefit of NOT being allies with Russia?

How realistic is being allies with Russia at this juncture ? They clearly don't like the West/NATO...otherwise they wouldn't prop up Assad, empower Iran, and conduct long range bomber patrols over peaceful countries in a threatening manner!

The US propped up Assad. The US empowered Iran and conducts drone strikes all over the world.

You did not answer my question. Why is it better to NOT be allies with Russia?

I don't see any case of the US propping up Assad. For one, the Syrians have been staunch enemies of Israel. Secondly, the US just sent 1000 special forces and advisors to train FSA and the "moderate rebels" as they are called in the MSM, to fight against BOTH ISIS and ASSAD ! As for Iran, Obama is engaging in talks with them but Iran is not considered an ally by the US or any NATO country.

Why is it better to not be allies with Russia - in a perfect world, it would be great. We were headed along this path for quite a while UNTIL RUSSIA invaded Georgia. They don't want to be allies, so the better question would be, why does Russia not want to be NATO's ally?

Crimea was historically part of Russia under autonomous rule like the US and Puerto Rico. The crimeans were not stupid enough to fall for the new puppet govt propoganda, they knew that if Yanukovich fell, so would their pensions and basic infrastructure. So they joined Russia. This is what the East has found out, and what Western ukraine will soon find out too. The west/EU does not care for you little peons, they want your resources, of which a lot happen to be located in Donetsk and Eastern Ua....

a reply to: Mehmet666Heineken

Well, sure!.
You rather have a nuclear war?

Putin did some things like helping Assad and stopping most likely the US attacking that country with that ''Red line (the so called gas attack), from then on relations seems to get worse with the US.
The government was overthrown in Ukraine with most likely a coup orchestrated by the US intelligence which started all this problems and the dividing of the country in 2 pieces!
The US builds a nuclear shield in Poland since years as well, it doesn't take much to get Russia/Putin nervous.
Also what about the west/US bringing total chaos with lots of wars and elimination leaders from middle east country's, helping terrorists with arming and funding to fight Assad. So why no voices about stopping such actions/wars???
Millions killed in the Middle east.
But we are the good guys...

So now we have an economical war with Russia, sure that will solve things and brings us closer to a solution!

You don't want to start an uprising in Crimea until you get the situation in Ukraine under control. Currently Ukraine is training and training as many people as they can draft. The US has sent advisers to help with defense and soon more to help with training. After the training is well underway you can flood Ukraine with the correct weapons to stop the Russians. One major weapon they need is the Javelin anti-tank weapon.

This is the proper way to bleed Russia in a war against Ukraine, not an uprising in Crimea.

Until you get Ukraine under control you can't effectively help Crimea. Of course the US will help the Tatars, when the time is right and they are sure they want to die fighting Russia.

originally posted by: stevenbond
Crimea was historically part of Russia under autonomous rule like the US and Puerto Rico. The crimeans were not stupid enough to fall for the new puppet govt propoganda, they knew that if Yanukovich fell, so would their pensions and basic infrastructure. So they joined Russia. This is what the East has found out, and what Western ukraine will soon find out too. The west/EU does not care for you little peons, they want your resources, of which a lot happen to be located in Donetsk and Eastern Ua....

Mr. Bond, I digress. Crimea was only a part of Russia after the Russo-Turkish wars and that too for a short period of time. It was a spoil of war for them, not historically theirs. It legally should still belong to Ukraine or they should declare independence. Why the Russians think Crimea is their long lost motherland is something I will never understand.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

"You don't want to start a war in Crimea until Ukraine is under control"

This is a great point that I overlooked. I was of the opinion that opening up hostilities in Crimea NOW would effectively work like a pincer movement against Russia's advance. Your point though, makes a little more sense now that I entertain the prospect.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
I think I would rather be allies with Russia. What is the benefit of NOT being allies with Russia?

There is no such thing as a 'Russian Ally'. Ukraine was about as close a country can ever be to Russia and they are now getting invaded and ripped apart by their long time 'Russian Ally'.

You are either a subject of Russia or you are it's enemy. That is the Russian mentality. If you think you are their ally then you are delusional.

a reply to: Plugin

You point out that Russia feels threatened and is acting out in paranoia. The NATO missile shields in Eastern Europe coupled with a loss of a traditional Moscow friendly regime in Ukraine are good points. Perhaps NATO has acted aggressively. Do you think there is still room left to negotiate on the table? After witnessing what the Russians did to Ukraine/Georgia, and the economic sanctions against them, I'm of the opinion that we are way past that point.