Duke reverses decision allowing Muslim call to prayer from campus chapel

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

Personally I don't think the Call to Prayer should be coming from a Chapel...

That seems abit intrusive.

Seems kind of weird to me. The big issue is that Church was built with donations from christian groups to promote Christianity, it is not a public building built with public money. If it is a huge deal then I think Muslim groups should build a Mosque there and they can do what they want then.

originally posted by: WeRpeons
a reply to: ~Lucidity

Hell no! Why give them an additional reason to congregate and recruit more radical thinking Muslims! Would it be right if Christians went to a Muslim mosque and ask them to ring their church bells on Sunday? This expectation that Christians have to accept and respect a religion who are engaged in killing innocent people and trying to force their beliefs and ways onto non-Muslims is outrageous! I don't even like Jehovah Witnesses coming to my door and trying to preach to me their beliefs!

I agree, I shouldnt have to have any religions bs in my vacinety....but I dont make the rules or social constructs we live by in the west....I just live here.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
And regardless, there is the separation of Church & State within the US and the (now obvious lie) that we are supposed to be living in religious pluralism. Not only that, but be proud of it.

Sad that one of the institutions that's supposed to held to a higher standard, a University, would cave to a few phone calls from some bigots.

~Tenth

Where did you come up with the fantasy that we're "supposed to be living in religious pluralism?"

The Constitution simply prevents the government from creating laws that prohibit the free exercise of religion. It doesn't say there must be hundreds of religions or one religion.

A private university that exercising their religious freedom by banning certain religions is the manifestation of what you call the separation of church and state. The HIGH standard is freedom to exercise their religious beliefs.

Holding their ground and not caving to popular opinion IS the highest standard in terms of religious freedom.

originally posted by: infinityorder
a reply to: ~Lucidity

I just have to ask a simple question.

Why is it so many in the west, the most prosperous civilization in history mind you, want to add aspects from obviously failed cultures, that fail specifically because of the aspects being pushed?

Islam is what makes the middle east the biggest crap hole on earth.

Why are some of you so intent on bringing it here?

Some of you? Who are some of you? Intent on bringing here?

Many people who are Muslims were born in the countries they live in, including here in the U.S. Many came to escape the horrors of the extremists themselves or the wars of choice carried out by other nations in theirs. Many simply came here for the very same reasons you or your ancestors probably did...to escape persecution or war, to get an education or healthcare, or just to look for better life for themselves or more importantly, their children. To be able to just live as they choose,in peace.

Religion and race are tools used by the powerful to oppress and control many and benefit very few. Once we get that we cannot paint all people with the same brush, maybe we'll understand more.

originally posted by: Jamie1

A private university that exercising their religious freedom by banning certain religions is the manifestation of what you call the separation of church and state. The HIGH standard is freedom to exercise their religious beliefs.

Holding their ground and not caving to popular opinion IS the highest standard in terms of religious freedom.

Right, and by the same standard, a private university that welcomes religious freedom, for all religions, is also exercising their freedom to do that. This seems to be the category Duke falls in.

They caved, but only because they feared reprisal and violence and for the security and safety of their students. And the catalyst that stirred this up was not the gesture itself but those who objected to the gesture.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

originally posted by: infinityorder
a reply to: ~Lucidity

I just have to ask a simple question.

Why is it so many in the west, the most prosperous civilization in history mind you, want to add aspects from obviously failed cultures, that fail specifically because of the aspects being pushed?

Islam is what makes the middle east the biggest crap hole on earth.

Why are some of you so intent on bringing it here?

Some of you? Who are some of you? Intent on bringing here?

Many people who are Muslims were born in the countries they live in, including here in the U.S. Many came to escape the horrors of the extremists themselves or the wars of choice carried out by other nations in theirs. Many simply came here for the very same reasons you or your ancestors probably did...to escape persecution or war, to get an education or healthcare, or just to look for better life for themselves or more importantly, their children. To be able to just live as they choose,in peace.

Religion and race are tools used by the powerful to oppress and control many and benefit very few. Once we get that we cannot paint all people with the same brush, maybe we'll understand more.

They come to the west to escape the horrors of the same culture they want to establish here......

This does not make sense.

All islamic cultures are a failure......as proof of this concept, name a single islamic culrure out of the many on earth that isnt a failure......come on, just name one islamic country that is not a crap hole compared to virtually every western country on the planet.

Iran...syria...any of the stans...yemen...iraq.....uae....saudi arabia....

Name a single western nation even close to as bad as the best islamic nation you could think of.

The problem seems obvious, our way of life is better than any if theirs.

Why would you want them to bring their way of life here to screw it up for us more than we have already?

The islamic world has absolutely nothing to offer the western world culturally.

Their culture as a whole is a complete failure in every single aspect.

Ours is far from perfect, that much is obvious...all them bringing theirs here has or will do is make things worse here.

Come to america, worship whatever god you want....but be american, not an extension of what you left because it obviously sucks.

Look at the mexicans...they come here, they are proud of their culture but they integrate and learn our ways.

Sure they still have their ways, but they are undoubtedly american after a few years.

Life in mexico sucks, they come here learn our ways, they flourish in comparison to their old life.

They dont try to this into a satellite mexico, because they know mexico sucks.

a reply to: infinityorder

Or maybe you just fear it's the same based on a few sensationalistic stories blown way out of perspective and the fearful overreactions of people who focus on them. Conditioning is a powerful thing.

a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71

Personally shocked and slightly appalled to have found a position that you and I are in agreement on.

Note: I was a Christian growing up. Attended church on Sundays, went to Sunday school in the church basement with all the other kids and the pastors wife, went to a Christian primary and elementary school for the first years of my schooling. I enjoyed it, for the most part, but I'm agnostic. And I can't foresee myself reverting to Christianity anytime in the future, frankly.

My opinion on a Christian church belltower issuing the Muslim call to prayer: LOL, NO.

Ask an Imam, any Imam, to ring church bells on a Sunday in a Middle Eastern nation and see how that turns out.

Though I'm not a practicing Christian, I tend to 'like' the religion of Christianity. I love stepping outside on a Sunday and hearing the various church bells around town. The Muslim 'call to prayer' is a different breed of thing entirely. Less musical ring-dinging and more like mindless drones being called to the hive.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Mind if I ask you a personal question? And I'm asking not to be rude - my Islam-related views have taken a markedly dark turn to late as a result of my penchant to react, perhaps overreact, emotionally to things. I've seen it, not liked it, and am addressing it.

I was interested, reading your post when your conversion to Islam -- my question is: Do you consider yourself a convert or a revert?

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

originally posted by: tothetenthpower

I would be completely supportive of banning the church bells too fyi.

Me too Sir, me too. I'm only supporting the Muslims rights to do so, based on the fact that they allow the Christians to do it too.

~Tenth

Duke has a Divinity School with lots of interfaith components and outreach. There's even a Duke Islamic Studies Center with a variety of courses on Islam. This gesture was I'm sure meant as a gesture of friendship and healing. Leave it to loudmouths to focus it back to hate and fear.

So, if Duke is truly interfaith, then where are the Buddhist, the Hindu, the Sikh, the Athesit, the Satanist etc etc allowances on call to prayer being made?

Consistency is the key here. Someone has already pointed out that this is a Methodist university and it has a big chapel, so I would understand if they have church service once a week with the bells. I would also accept call to prayers if it were a Muslim university.

But it's not.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

Here’s how the story played out: Christy Lohr Sapp, the Associate Dean for Religious Life at Duke, approached Imam Adeel Zeb, the school’s Muslim chaplain, and suggested that the Muslim community could issue their call-to-prayer from the chapel tower on Fridays.

This wasn’t some rogue outsider handing the chapel over to heathens. Lohr Sapp teaches theology at Duke’s Divinity School and is on the chapel staff. No one foresaw any backlash. Lohr Sapp published a glowing op-ed in the News & Observer about “this small token of welcome” that would “provide a platform” for “a voice that challenges media stereotypes of Muslims, a voice of wisdom, a voice of prayer and a voice of peace.

Given that Muslims take great delight in burning Christian churches overseas, I think that giving over a church for Muslim prayer is insulting. I don't ever recall hearing a Mosque giving itself over to Christian prayer.

Once again it's about consistency.

I'm sure Duke University probably got a phone call from the White House.

Remember, Duke is one of the top 10 universities getting the most government money.

10. Duke University > Total federal R&D grant money: $585 million > Pct. R&D spending from government: 57.3% > 2012 endowment: $5.56 billion Duke University’s medical school alone spent a nation-high $831 million in research and development. More than 57% of the university’s total research budget came from the federal government, with the majority of those funds coming from HHS. Duke also relies on other sources for its funding. The university received more than $215 million from businesses in fiscal 2011 to fund research and development, more than any other school in the country.

Also, remember, Obama loves the call to prayer. Mr. Obama described the call to prayer as “one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.”

Yep. I'm sure they got a little phone call reminding them what they better do.

originally posted by: queenofswords

Also, remember, Obama loves the call to prayer. Mr. Obama described the call to prayer as “one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.”

That is a sad observation from Mr Obama then. He has obviously never sat in a hilltop in the wilderness and listened to the sounds of nature readying for the night.

The call to prayer is just another human made invasive noise. And to balance that, I find church bells irritating too.

originally posted by: infinityorder
a reply to: ~Lucidity

I just have to ask a simple question.

Why is it so many in the west, the most prosperous civilization in history mind you, want to add aspects from obviously failed cultures, that fail specifically because of the aspects being pushed?

Islam is what makes the middle east the biggest crap hole on earth.

Why are some of you so intent on bringing it here?

thought provoking, would make a good topic

a reply to: markosity1973

Please read the at the links I provided earlier.

a reply to: ~Lucidity

A disunited country is easy prey for take over.

Two counteries that that are united is Japan and Izrahell. A strong nation is not a candidate for surrendering its sovereignty

originally posted by: learnatic
a reply to: ~Lucidity

A disunited country is easy prey for take over.

Two counteries that that are united is Japan and Izrahell. A strong nation is not a candidate for surrendering its sovereignty

I'm not quite sure what you mean by disunited, but I agree with the rest of your statement.

Islam is the only faith I know of (other than Christianity of course) that is so vocal and so pushy. We've got used to dealing with the pushy christians, but Islam is a game changer because it's followers have shown us they are not afraid to be violent to try and force their point.

I see no reason for us to concede a single square inch of our way of life to them until they can prove they are ready to become like us as opposed to changing us into them, which is their global agenda.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: infinityorder

Or maybe you just fear it's the same based on a few sensationalistic stories blown way out of perspective and the fearful overreactions of people who focus on them. Conditioning is a powerful thing.

Really...that pathetic response is the best you have?

Name one, just one Islamic nation out of many that is actually better than any western nation....just please name one.

You cant because the entire culture is a fail.

The fact all of islamic culture is a failure should clue you in to the facts.

Islamic culture needs to change, or die off.

This is evolution, it is evution, the the weak..ie..the less fit, die, and are replaced by the superior.

Tell me outside of retarded pc bs, the west is not superior in every aspect of life.

Islam obviously equals fail.

Our ways equal a much much much better life, though still lacking in absolute freedom.

The west is not the end all, we are just the next step, islamic culture was 5 steps ago.

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: learnatic
a reply to: ~Lucidity

Islam is the only faith I know of (other than Christianity of course) that is so vocal and so pushy. We've got used to dealing with the pushy christians, but Islam is a game changer because it's followers have shown us they are not afraid to be violent to try and force their point.

I see no reason for us to concede a single square inch of our way of life to them until they can prove they are ready to become like us as opposed to changing us into them, which is their global agenda.

Good points there mate