Islamophobia: Over-reaction or Sensible Response

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
a reply to: kaylaluv

By what you just said, your fear of "irresponsible and unstable people with guns" is irrational.

How so? It's people I fear, not guns or a religion. I said it's NOT irrational to fear certain people who harm others. It IS irrational to fear an inanimate object or a religion, because an inanimate object or a religion can't harm you in and of itself.

Meanwhile in real World

Ah, I misread your post.

I don't disagree with you. To fear every single Muslim because of a threat posed by fewer than 50% would be foolish.

Perhaps the term 'Islamophobia' is being bandied about a little too freely then? It seems that anyone on ATS who speaks to the threat of Muslim extremism is quickly labeled an Islamophobe.

I'm probably a sufferer of that newly invented disorder ''islamophobia''. Why?

a) I see the contempt and hostility towards people outside their religious group in ''your average muslim''. It's not just about the supposed extremists, it's about the feelings and ideas many common 'every day' muslims seem to harbour. I don't see us truly getting along. I think the West made a mistake with the immigration.

b) I don't believe islam's being 'hijacked'. Who are so many of us to tell people about their own religion? Is there a greater ethnocentrism? Surely they must be exactly like us with perhaps somewhat slightly different rituals, and if they bluntly tell us that's not the case, we simply enlighten them a bit on how their religion works! [/sarcasm]

Let's just listen to what plenty of the muslims and their clerics say here and in the muslim world.

c) I make a distinction between religion and the individual. That not every muslim is a terrorist does not mean that there isn't a problem. Besides, we tend to overlook other issues by focusing too much on the outward violence. How about spousal abuse, polygamy, abuse of children, female genital mutilation, the way they speak of other peoples especially jews and so on? Community-wise there're plenty of very serious issues attached to the increasing influence of islam and I don't like that. Even more, I think it's in nobody's good to keep going with the ''not every muslim''-mantra when there're massive issues on a large scale. All in all, I think islam is behind most of these issues (within these groups, where they're very high) and definitely not helping to solve them.

d) I fail to see (which may be, exactly as I say it, my failure) what good or positive it adds to our society.

e) It's rather normal imo to grow suspicious when a religion is creating such a bad image of itself. If you condemn deeds by Israel, is that Israelophobia or just the result of your observations? Surely, not every jew/Israeli does [whatever it is]! Case closed?

f) Islam is literally, by actual violence and verbal threats, threatening us. That this threat is significant and realistic is obvious, just take the last couple of weeks into account. They're not Kim Jong Il or Kim Jong Un, offering mostly threats full of insults without ever doing much.

g) Is my islamophobia a problem when I don't harm or threaten anyone or their belongings, don't treat muslims differently and help them out like I do with others?

h) Unease with islam extends beyond just bombs. It significantly changed society and is still doing so. Besides, what worries me now is not just islam but also the effect recent events had on society in general. I hope the tension doesn't rise too much, especially not if it ends in killing people.

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
Ah, I misread your post.

I don't disagree with you. To fear every single Muslim because of a threat posed by fewer than 50% would be foolish.

Perhaps the term 'Islamophobia' is being bandied about a little too freely then? It seems that anyone on ATS who speaks to the threat of Muslim extremism is quickly labeled an Islamophobe.

Let's try this one more time.

It IS irrational to fear an inanimate object or a religion. A gun can't shoot itself. A religion can't fire a gun or set off a bomb. Do you disagree with that?

It is NOT irrational to fear people who harm others. A unstable or irresponsible person can shoot another person. A terrorist can shoot or blow someone up.

It IS irrational to fear all people who have guns, because most of those people are sane and responsible with their weapons.

It IS irrational to fear all people who follow Islam, because most of those people are peaceful people who have not and will not hurt anyone.

EDIT: I just saw you changed your post.

I think that people who bash the whole Muslim religion, or say that it is Islam that is the problem, is an Islamophobe.

a reply to: Pitou

Now I'm not a psychologist or a Progressive politician, but that doesn't sound like it fits the literary definition of Islamophobia. i.e. fear of all Muslims.

It surely fits the contemporary definition though.

Think I'll stick with the actual meaning of the word myself, so I find you not guilty.

Deleted

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
Fear is a normal human emotion. It can be a self-

When an irrational fear becomes too powerful to ignore, we call it a phobia. Merriam-Webster on the word phobia: an exaggerated usually inexplicable and illogical fear of a particular object, class of objects, or situation


Which category does modern Islamophobia fall under -- rational fear based on a real threat, or grossly-exaggerated and illogical phobia?

Dithcuth.

The ship has really sailed here. The days are long past were we need to pounder the questing when it comes to radical Muslims. Its like even asking the question if there are really any radical crazy Islamists at all, its that ludicrous. Considering the evidence before us only a fool would discuss this issue in the old worn out frame of thinking and considering "Islamophobia" as a misguided position. At this point it is fair enough to ask any Muslim if they are anything like the radicals. Just ask these guys.

Nothing of this world to fear except fear itself. Or something like that.

The irony is that the reason radical Islamic groups are hellbent on the destruction of the west is because they fear it. Their fear has led to hate, and that hatred used to motivate attacks.

Should we call it "westophobia"?.... They fear freedom most of all. Their faith and religion is all about control. Western society and culture threatens them by merely existing.

Tragically islamophobia could lead to similar broad hatred toward Islamic societies and cultures. In many ways it already has. In the end, our similarities may overshadow our differences.

Evil doesn't care, its agenda is to spread hatred, and will stop at nothing to accomplish its objectives.

Evil is winning... On both sides.

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
a reply to: MALBOSIA

In the simplest terms: you live in a warped reality, amigo.

Where are these millions of violent Christians you speak of? Between your parietal lobe and cerebellum?

You seem to imply that if you've met a few Muslims, you've met them all. Sounds like prejudical generalization to me. Or maybe just naivete.

Sounds like you have a pretty strong case of Islamaphobia yourself. I wouldn't call you naive, since your avoidance of the history of 20-21st centuries falls more in the ignorant category.

You say that the actions of a few Muslims doing bad things should paint the entire religion rather than the acts of kindness from so many many more. You cherry picking reasons to hate and that is nobodies problem but your own.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

If you are determined to draw your own conclusions from thin air, I won't waste time clarifying my statements.

Suffice it to say, you are way off base. Try re-reading my posts.

a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

Well I said it was irrational fear. I know fear doesn't go away in a combat situation, but that is rational fear. You are in immediate danger at that point. All of THIS in this thread. This is irrational fear. There is no credible threat to anyone on these forums of being hit by a terrorist attack.

By the way, shark attacks are STILL low even if you are in the ocean. There's less than 100 a year worldwide. So your point is ridiculous. But in any case, we aren't in the Middle East. Most of us are in 1st world countries, and the statistics say that terrorist attacks are unlikely in the 1st world. That was my whole point.