woman hostage shot at least twice by police during Sydney café seige

This morning on Yahoo Spain there was an article that stated cateroricaly that one of the female hostages killed in the Sydney café seige had received at least two shots from police who stormed the place.

The information came from the coroner.

The page has now been taken down. Can anyone else find a link please.

So much for intensive training.

a reply to: andy1972

Its war man...people move...things are chaos....its sad but hostages get shot. It is reality. I don't care how much training you have accidents can happen. Look at the best defensive baseball players ever...they still made errors...and they weren't playing for their lives.

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

That's a lame excuse. If I shoot the wrong person defending my life or if the round passes through and strikes an innocent, I go to jail or face a civil suit at the very least. There should be no double standard. Their training is much more extensive than a civilian, yet we are held to a much higher standard of responsibility.

a reply to: DAVID64

And the hostages didn't get that training, now did they? All they know is that there's a lot of noise, and guns going off, and they're terrified. Terrified people don't sit still and wait for police to do their thing, they panic. You can train 23 hours a day, and still make a mistake. Just look at the Seal hostage attempts. Hostages die, or they fail, and they're considered some of the best, most trained troops in the world. You simply can't train for every single little thing.

a reply to: Zaphod58

My reply was more directed toward the fact of the double standard. I understand people get shot because they panic and move around, when they should hit the floor and stay there. I just think "heat of battle" should be just as applicable in a civilian shooting as it is in a hostage situation. But we, as civilians defending our lives, face much stricter scrutiny. We have not been trained how to handle that type of stress, yet we are held to a higher standard of responsibility, when it comes to shooting the wrong person.

a reply to: DAVID64

Because if police and other responders had to worry about going to jail for something beyond their control like a hostage getting in the way, they couldn't do their job. A person defending themselves is deliberately shooting at a specific person. A SWAT officer in a hostage situation is aiming at someone else, and didn't deliberately shoot the hostage. It's not a double standard. If the officer had aimed and shot the hostage for no reason, it would be a different thing, but if the bullet went through another person and hit them, or they moved into the way, there was nothing the officer could have done.

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: rockpaperhammock

That's a lame excuse. If I shoot the wrong person defending my life or if the round passes through and strikes an innocent, I go to jail or face a civil suit at the very least. There should be no double standard. Their training is much more extensive than a civilian, yet we are held to a much higher standard of responsibility.

I disagree. In a self defense situation or hostage scenario, even average citizens have protections from prosecution for accidental injury or death. It's all about the intent to help.

And I'd like to see your response to someone monday-morning quarterbacking an operation that saved YOUR life, or what you expect them to do when you're the one taken hostage.

For all we know, if it had gone down bad, there could have been 50 bodybags piled up that day.

The bad guy is dead, and HE put these people at risk, no one else!

originally posted by: rockpaperhammock
a reply to: andy1972

Its war man...people move...things are chaos....its sad but hostages get shot. It is reality. I don't care how much training you have accidents can happen. Look at the best defensive baseball players ever...they still made errors...and they weren't playing for their lives.

Agreed. There's only so much that training can account for. In the real world, situations don't play out the way you expect, pressure and stress are at their maximum, perfect and/or easy shots generally don't exist, and accidents sometimes happen as a result of it all. That's just the unfortunate reality of situations like this one and no amount of training will eliminate it.

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: rockpaperhammock

That's a lame excuse. If I shoot the wrong person defending my life or if the round passes through and strikes an innocent, I go to jail or face a civil suit at the very least. There should be no double standard. Their training is much more extensive than a civilian, yet we are held to a much higher standard of responsibility.

Well I can tell you from experience it doesnt work the way you say ....go back to watching movies cause this is the real world. I've seen times where they dressed the hostage in the same uniform...the same camo...plus hostages dont know whats going on...you could have them run right at you. Nobody wants to kill a hostage ever...but in situations like this...# happens.

Ok I read your other post and I understand some of the things you are saying...the court system and rules and crap like that are completely messed up. That is a whole other topic and one we probably both agree on.

Well from someone who actually has been inside there......the inside was mainly marble. Marble floor, marble walls, marble columns. The police did a fabulous job. Those bullets would have been ricocheting everywhere.

a reply to: bellagirl

She was apparently hit by a ricocheting bullet, but this is the first I've heard of her being hit twice.

originally posted by: NuclearPaul
a reply to: bellagirl

She was apparently hit by a ricocheting bullet, but this is the first I've heard of her being hit twice.

Katrina Dawson killed by police bullet

It would appear she was killed by bullet fragments in the heart from a police fired round while she layon the floor..The perils of high velocity rounds in small spaces.