US wants to tell Palestine not to address the UN, neither today nor in the future.

a reply to: Soapusmaximus

Without a doubt the land was taken through conquest, which was the norm at the time, as it was throughout all human history until the end of ww2.

So yes it was legally owned by brittain, by the old worlds standards, which was the law at the time the land was claimed by brittain.

I mean by some of these guys standards every nonnative american in america should shot at and bombed by the native americans, and it is ok. Because this is their land.

But we are here now, so we need to address reality not want.

The isrealis arent leaving, neither are the palestinians.

Isreal stops attacking them, they keep attacking, isreal tries to have peace talks they keep attacking, on the rare occasion they stop attacking to have peace talks, they are preparing for their next attacks.

Either both need to stop, or just wipe eachother out and get it over with.

a reply to: infinityorder

Ok I get it...your antisemitic...you can have your own beliefs and opinions, but not your own facts.

Nothing Voyger2 posted was antisemitic. The old they spoke out against Israel and pointed out the laws they are breaking is because they are antisemitic doesn't work anymore.

Name one country or people on this planet that have never taken others land.........I will be waiting a long time on that one, as there are none.

This is true but since WW2 international laws have been made that stops this from happening.

They then gave it to the jews, which was perfectly legal, as it belonged to them, it was their property to do with as they pleased.

True the land was given to them was legal. But all the land that has been stolen since 1948 is illegal and should be given back to the Palestinians because it violates international law.

You act like it is the palestinians land, and the isrealites should leave. Where would they go?

Helen Thomas said it best tell them to go back where they came from. People are shocked when they hear this because they would say you mean go back to Germany? Jews are not persecuted in Germany and if you look at all the Israelis that are leaving Israel and moving back to Germany then it should be ok for the rest to move back.

Not even mentioning the fact, it is not their land and was not their land, it is now isreals land, and was brittains land before that.

You skip over the fact that they have not stayed within the borders they were given.

I support them because they are a sovereign nation defending their people, which is their right.

Israel is defending land that they have stolen. If you are going to support a people for defending their land then you should be supporting the Palestinians.

a reply to: infinityorder

Isreal stops attacking them, they keep attacking, isreal tries to have peace talks they keep attacking, on the rare occasion they stop attacking to have peace talks, they are preparing for their next attacks.

Israels occupation of the West Bank and turning Gaza into an open air prison is a constant attack on the Palestinians. The only time Israel tries to start peace talks is when America pressures them to do so the rest of the time it is the Palestinians that want the peace talks but Israel wants nothing to do with it because they don't want peace. Israel makes far too much money from the constant "threat" of the Palestinians.

Who would have thought it...

A Zionist entering the thread to discredit the Palestinians & follow the Hasbara rhetoric of victimhood...



As for the OP...

It's the old "shut up & accept it" stance...

Too bad for the Zionists that no one gives a toss what they think or advise others to do!!!

a reply to: infinityorder

So yes it was legally owned by brittain, by the old worlds standards, which was the law at the time the land was claimed by brittain.

You're talking about the Balfour Declaration...
Which specifically says that it is all to be done so long as it does not affect the Indigenous population of Palestine!!!

That hasn't been the case so any attacks on stolen Palestinian land are not only righteous, but justified by International Law.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Who would have thought it...

A Zionist entering the thread to discredit the Palestinians & follow the Hasbara rhetoric of victimhood...



As for the OP...

It's the old "shut up & accept it" stance...

Too bad for the Zionists that no one gives a toss what they think or advise others to do!!!

There is a zionist in the thread?

I must of missed that post.

If you mean myself...lol I am as far from a zionist as it gets, I have zero jewish heritage and am agnostic.

My religion is science and unbiased truth.

Not the bs most of these posters are spewing.

The palestinians were not cordoned off until their attacks in isreal reached a fevered pitch.

Am I the only one that remembers the weekly bombings and other horrors taking place all over isreal before they were forced to react?

No other nation would be demanded to allow this to continue.

At present isreal has been hit by 4005 rockets and 31 mortars just in 2014....that is by your friendly neighborhood palestinians on civilian targets in isreal, just from the gaza strip.

If they opened the border back up there would be bombs on crowded buses and packed cafes again just like before.

I feel like I am taking crazy pills talking to supposedly enlightened ATSers about this.

But for contrast after nonstop rocket and motar attacks isreal had to respond to protect their people resulting in an estimated 4900 bombs of various size and accuracy.

Poke a bear with a stick dont play victim if they poke back....really hard.

This is of course ignoring all the tunnels dug into isreal, with the openly stated intention of using them to cause mass civilian casualties on isreali civilians.

Come on....this is not the dali lama vs china.

The palestinians want peace like the rest of the arab world does with isreal. Peace will only come when all the jews are dead..as clearly stated by the gaza leadership.

How can you even defend this crap?

Isreal is not planning or hoping and doesnt even want to kill arabs. The arabs cant say the same.

Though it does seem egypt has grown a brain and plans on peaceful coexistance.

So let me get this straight. The Palestinians have a fairly moderate leadership now that is favoring courts and votes and negotiations and peace processes and some of you guys still want to stop that? We as a nation want to stop that, saying things like.."they are circumventing the process..." etc. What process? There is no hope for Palestine doing things the way things have always been done. Israel doesn't want peace. Why shouldn't the Palestinians join the UN? Name one reason that would be bad?

And then when you guys and the US and the thugs we have in control, stop all peaceful avenues for the palestinians to ever get anywhere...you'll wonder why they resort to violence?

Wow.

a reply to: infinityorder

I have zero jewish heritage and am agnostic.

Like many Zionists then, you'd fit right in!

Poke a bear with a stick dont play victim if they poke back....really hard.

A mantra for the Palestinians & all who support them through the indignation of a Terror State!

This is of course ignoring all the tunnels dug into isreal

It was ok when it was Jewish tunnels in Warsaw!

Little things like this are what show those with an open eye the similarities between the Zionists & the Nazis.

Isreal is not planning or hoping and doesnt even want to kill arabs.

So when Israel Airstriked a Beach killing a group of children playing Football, was that not planned or wanted?
Because Airstrikes need to be planned ahead.





All you have to do, to come to a righteous & dignified conclusion, is work out which of the two kills Children in multiple attacks & calls it "proportionate defence"...

When you answer this question, it becomes patently obvious what has really occurred in this battle, & who the aggressors are!

a reply to: voyger2

Neither group is actually interested in any kind of peace.

It's time to let these people just go at it,because they will never stop hating each other.

Perhaps the civilized parts of the world could come together to erase the nations comprised of religious murderers.

This idea came to me while watching (on tv) fellow Americans throwing themselves out of windows as opposed to being burned alive in the Twin Towers.

The middle east is ALWAYS going to be a war zone because the middle easterner's want a never ending battle.

a reply to: voyger2

"American Taxpayers Demand 2016 President to End All Foreign Aid to Middle East"

When you see that headline, you will the end of the 70 year conflict..

originally posted by: amazing
So let me get this straight. The Palestinians have a fairly moderate leadership now that is favoring courts and votes and negotiations and peace processes and some of you guys still want to stop that? We as a nation want to stop that, saying things like.."they are circumventing the process..." etc. What process? There is no hope for Palestine doing things the way things have always been done. Israel doesn't want peace. Why shouldn't the Palestinians join the UN? Name one reason that would be bad?

And then when you guys and the US and the thugs we have in control, stop all peaceful avenues for the palestinians to ever get anywhere...you'll wonder why they resort to violence?

Wow.

Those are all valid points, I favor the palestinians getting a seat at the UN, for all the good it will do them, they still deserve a seat at the world table.

The kurds do as well imho, but that isnt likely to happen either.

So we are where we are at...sucks all the way around.

Totally Shocking a U.S/ Israel hating muslim Shocking I tell you . Both countries should cut of aide to these VIOLENT psychopaths.

a reply to: infinityorder

Get over it.

Until you realize that after 1948 UN Partition Plan, Israel stole every bit of land in violation of International Law and still is doing it.

Until you realize that Israel violates several Human Rights, perpetrates Genocide and other War Crimes, there is no doubt that they (Palestinians) have every right to resist and defend themselves the away they can against Tyranny, Oppression and Genocide, under Jus Cogens: A peremptory norm, that gives the right of self defense against genocide,war crimes, waging aggressive war, apartheid,torture or any fundamental international law that is being broken (as the Human rights).

Palestinians are fighting in every field they can to survive. We all know that by the legal means, "they" (US/Australia/Israel) are doing everything they can to stop Palestinians to achieve justice on the International Courts and at the United Nations, with threats to cut funds to whom supports this, even using legal prosecution or sanctions against them.

How can the "democratic and civilized countries" deny the pursuit for justice, by legal means, to anyone? Is this the away to Peace? Is this the way the US sees it as in accordance with both parties? Why they want to deny the right to go to International Courts? Who gains who looses? There is no possible Peace without Justice.

Jus Cogens Law & Legal Definiton

Latin meaning "compelling law." This "higher law" must be followed by all countries. For example, genocide or slave trade may be considered to go against jus cogens, due to peremptory norms.

Jus Cogens - Wiki:

A peremptory norm is a fundamental principle of international law that is accepted by the international community of states as a norm from which no derogation is permitted.

The number of peremptory norms is considered limited but not exclusively catalogued [..] Generally included are prohibitions on waging aggressive war, crimes against humanity, war crimes, maritime piracy, genocide, apartheid, slavery, torture.

As an example, international tribunals have held that it is impermissible for a state to acquire territory through war.

One positive right considered to be a peremptory norm is the right to use self-defense

Under Article 53 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, any treaty that conflicts with a peremptory norm is void

edit on 6/1/2015 by voyger2 because: (no reason given)

originally posted by: infinityorder
a reply to: voyger2

Ok I get it...your antisemitic...you can have your own beliefs and opinions, but not your own facts.

Name one country or people on this planet that have never taken others land.........I will be waiting a long time on that one, as there are none.

Hey look, this guy just justified the alleged Holohoax.

Good job rationalizing your own people's alleged genocide.

Bonus points for throwing in the anti-semite card.

All I hear us US. Well if you read, Australia also blocked it.

a reply to: Crumbles

You are right, Australia, doesn't get better on the picture. But, from the negative votes, only US haves Veto power.

Under Article 27 of the UN Charter, Security Council decisions on all substantive matters require the affirmative votes of nine members. A negative vote or "veto" by a permanent member prevents adoption of a proposal, even if it has received the required votes

veto power

Yes, all you ear is US and now you know why.

a reply to: voyger2

In this repspct the USA is being an asshole... Its a real poor show to this kind of politics in this day and age.. We need something different..

originally posted by: infinityorder
a reply to: voyger2

You do understand even the other arab neighbors dont want anything to do with the palestinians right?

You do understand these idiots have attacked isreAL NONE STOP for de ades right?

You do understand palestinians had open access to isreal back in the day right?

You do understand the idiot treaty wanted isreal to return land they won in war, a war they didnt start, a war where everyone of their neighboring arab countries sneak attacked them from all sides at the same time, trying to cause a new and final holocaust right?

None of your points are worth the words I have wasted explaning history to you.

You do understand that the UN never had the right to "give" Israel to the Zionists right?

You do understand that the zionists of this world for 100s of years have been bantering about their hardship in media and to weak politicians based on their PSYCHOTIC fictitious religious texts with the only purpose of fulfilling a made up prophecy...right?

You do understand that even now, in modern times, you can look up ANY jewish Facebook page and seen Jewish people themselves talk about how they are different than everyone else, how their kids definitely should not marry outside judaism and so on and so on.... in short, they are actively maintaining their own separation from the society that is the world.
When you distinguish yourself from someone else, you automatically put focus on yourself as being different and with that all that comes along in both good and bad.

WHO THE F CARES ABOUT HIS OR HER RELIGION THIS MUCH??????? I DON*T GET IT!

You are all humans regardless of what freaking label you have been brainwashed to put on yourselves... you are no worse or better than me or the guy next to me. You will go to the same place as me when you die, no matter what you do or say..... right?

So... if jews... *cough* zionists.... weren't so damn hell bent on being different than everyone else, maybe there wouldn't be such big issues.

All that bull# about needing your own country to be safe... bull#... maybe it was true 200 years ago, but come on. There are lots of countries in the world where jews are free to live and walk around as you please, going by your nepotistic lives where you first and foremost do business with those you are as "different" as yourselves, instead of just trying to assimilate and be part of something bigger.

It's funny though... zionists and jews are completely nepotistic... maybe you don't say it our loud, but it's so obvious.
Imagine it the other way around, OH MY F'ING G.... Look at that guy! He's a anti-Semite...!

Idiocy. Religious brainwash and self-righteousness...

In short, jews / zionists were never entitled to ANYTHING more than anyone else. NOTHING.

I don't give a damn thing about what your so called holy texts say about anything anymore than I believe I one day get to meet Scrooge McDuck and he'll present his lucky coin to me.
And since this world is for everyone, your texts will not tell me that you are more entitled to anything more than I am or anyone else.

You can stick your religious texts where the sun doesn't shine and grow the F up and join modern society.

Israel with that sick F as a leader is a disgrace to humanity, and the UN is a nice way of showing how democracy and sense is no longer important in politics.

originally posted by: Crumbles
All I hear us US. Well if you read, Australia also blocked it.

Australia is either heavily influenced by the US for whatever reason, or they have some trade deals with Israel that are more important to them than peace and human lives.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I would never normally find myself defending Israel in any way, but I believe the beach killings was an attack boat - not saying it's any better but I suppose less planning than an airstrike.

Love the Poland/Palestine observation, life is strange.