The Bible Was Buried For A Reason. It Is Evil. It Was Obtained By Robbing A Grave. Again An Evil.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I'd say like Jesus' namesake:

‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand; keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’ [ESV] Isaiah 6:9

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
... [snipped for brevity] ...

Besides, how could Jesus have been dead for 3 days to allow for 'the separation of blood plasma from whole blood' (sic) when he was still nailed to the cross? Think!

The Greek text of John 19:34 makes it plain that when the blood and water had separated. It wasn't watery blood or water mixed with blood (as some poor translations say).

Let me explain; the the Greek word "καί" that is translated as "and" in English in that verse, is actually more literally translated "and also then". This indicates that the 'water' came out first, then the 'blood' came out. I.e: blood was present in the pleural cavity and had been there long enough for gravity to fractionate the blood plasma, lymph and pleural fluid from the heavier erythrocytes (red blood cells). From this information I would assume that the heart had ruptured and bled out into the pleural cavity greater than two hours before the spear's puncture.

In Greek, the Roman soldier stabbed his spear into the "πλευρὰν", which in English is "pleura" and this is taken to mean the ribcage was pierced. A roman spear is not a delicate surgical instrument for cutting shallowly, as a scalpel does, it is a penetrating weapon designed to puncture, to a considerable depth (Roman metal spear points are usually about 18 inches in length), in a straight forward movement. It could NOT cut sideways with subtle control like a scalpel. The intention of the Roman soldier was most likely to pierce the heart and lungs as he was told to get the bodies down off the crosses (i.e: make sure they are dead) before the next day (Passover).

If Jesus was only suffering from hemothorax as you proposed, then the spear punctured chest (assuming it is possible for it to only cut through the chest and pleural wall and not damage heart and lungs) and ruptured pleura, along with the crucifixion process (which kills by asphyxiation) would have definitely done him in, not saved him.

Face it, it is fairly definite from the accounts that Jesus died on that cross.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: vethumanbeing

I'd say like Jesus' namesake:
‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand; keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’ [ESV] Isaiah 6:9

You would quote the 'devil' if it served to promote your negative agenda regarding your band stand/soap box attitude/proclimations concerning Christianity, Islam name the/ANY dogmatic poison; so by you quoting Jesus are undermining YOUR OWN dictates/dialog. I am not exactly an organized religion 'dogma' fan; and would NEVER quote scripture to one that has a different/deeper understanding of its meaning. That addresses individualized will and the right to practice or believe in a system that resonates. You seem to be attacking the idea of 'the self governing right to think for oneself'. Would you consider yourself an educator of the unwashed or an extremist.

originally posted by: Awen24

originally posted by: TruthSeekerKnight
The Bible Should Be Burned And Buried Back Where It Came. We Were Cursed By Grave Robbing It To Start With. It Was Buried For A Reason."To Be Killed" Because The People Of The Time Realized What It Was All Evil.

You're aware that the Bible is in fact 66 books, yes?
...written over a time period of at least 1500 years, by 40 different authors, in different times, places, roles, responsibilities? The writers range from shepherds to Kings, from Jews to Gentiles, from Jerusalem to Babylon, in multiple languages, multiple eras, multiple world powers and multiple minorities. The Bible is about as diverse a book as you could ask for.

It's not just "a book" that was "stolen from a grave", so your entire premise is false.

Yea and just try saying that the Koran should get the same treatment. Mods would come investigation such a thread.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

You also stated that Nicodemus was a doctor.

He was a high ranking Pharisee but I have seen no reference anywhere suggesting that he was trained in medicine in any way.

Saint Nicodemus (which he became after accepting Christ) was most probably Bunai (Nicodemus) ben Gurion, a 1st century holy man recorded as having miraculous answers to prayer.

Please educate me on Nicodemus's link to medicine.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Whilst acknowledging the superb medical skills of the 1st century Roman Armies, I think if you actually analyze the documentation from the time, you would conclude, as I have, that they had no treatment for ruptured lungs or pleura.

The most complete medical document of the times (actually written 47 years after the crucifixion of Christ), "De Medicina" by Aulus Cornelius Celsus, makes no direct mention of treatment for conditions like pneumothorax or haemothorax. The only thing close is the mention (in book 7, paragraph 14) of dealing with situations in the chest and neck by piercing 'tumors' with a needle.

1st century Roman army medics carried their own surgical instruments. If Gaius Longinus had been a medic, he would have been carrying a medical kit in a rolled up piece of leather, which would contain a scalpel, forceps and speculum, among other tools. Why would he choose, then to do surgery with a spear point?

originally posted by: chr0naut
that they had no treatment for ruptured lungs or pleura.

Well, the procedure is exactly what the centurion did on Golgatha. If he didn't know about it, he were quite lucky, don't you think?

Like I said, punctured lung was perhaps the most common injury on the battlefield, and you don't really need a manual to treat it, it's rather straightforward, and you'd come far with intuition alone.

However in the battlefield, the thorax would already be pierced, and the treatment is rather straightforward. You apply some kind of valve, like a wet sponge (which was also present at Golgatha) or a couple of inches of cat intestine or similar (you'd need the cat later too, for the stitching up), stuffed into the outer wound with a reed inside, letting air out, but not in (today you'd typically use the tip of "finger" on a rubber glove), and you drain the patient's chest for blood and condense (same as Jesus) regularly by ex. turning him over to the side from time to time. You typically keep draining the thorax until the wound in the lung is healed, which would take about two to three days (hm, how long was Jesus gone again?). Then you make sure the thorax holds the right pressure and you stitch up the wound.

The procedure looks rather violent, but so does most surgical procedures.

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

You also stated that Nicodemus was a doctor.

Looks like you are correct. I don't know how I got to that conclusion, it must have been something I read somewhere. Anyway I am unable to find any references here and now at least. Anyway, he brought the aloë, which is a disinfectant and used to treat wounds and infections, why anyone would disinfect the wounds of a dead man is beyond me.

originally posted by: TruthSeekerKnight
Revelation Only Mentions Two Figures God And The Anti-Christ. The Prophecy Doesn't Contain Any Other Specific Names So It Is About Them Only.. If You Wan't To Put Yourself In It By All Means Have Fun..I Will Not Fight For Either Side.(Gentile) So I Will Be Here When Its All Over.

By claiming yourself a gentile you are choosing a side.
I don't like ethnical proselitism enforced by religious fudementalism in general.
Don't worry, I find most of your OP very interesting. If you happen to have open eyes, please have a look in this thread.



And about the two figures, 2-in-1 does it count as 3 ?

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

You also stated that Nicodemus was a doctor.

Looks like you are correct. I don't know how I got to that conclusion, it must have been something I read somewhere. Anyway I am unable to find any references here and now at least. Anyway, he brought the aloë, which is a disinfectant and used to treat wounds and infections, why anyone would disinfect the wounds of a dead man is beyond me.

The "aloes" that are traditional Jewish funerary spices are not aloe vera extract (a gel from the leaves of a succulent garden aloe vera plant of the same name) but are a sweet smelling 'dust' from an eastern tree Aquilaria agallocha. This wood was harvested and usually left buried in the ground so it would begin to rot (and reach its most pungent state). The wood after maturing and being dug up was then pounded into a powder. Like Myrrh, its primary effectiveness is not in healing or disease control, it just smells nice.

As an aside, despite Aloe Vera being advertised everywhere as a disinfectant and a wound healer, scientific studies show little if any effectiveness. It appears that the primary effect of Aloe Vera is that it is a soothing and fairly neutral hydrous gel.

Also, myrrh is an incredibly sticky resin when fresh. Like hot tar only not hot and stickier! It is also hydrophobic and so even with strong soaps and lots of water, is very hard to remove (I know this from experience).

a reply to: TruthSeekerKnight
my advice to you is to read Reza Aslan's Zealot.maybe after taking the time to read this fantastic book the insecurity you feel towards archaeology will be put to rest.
en.wikipedia.org...:_The_Life_and_Times_of_Jesus_of_Nazareth

a reply to: chr0naut

Thanks for clearing that up (nota bene: or perhaps not, see ETA section below). I'll keep it in mind as I move on. Thanks for the heads up. Then we can assume that Nicodemus would be relieved of the suspicion that he helped a convicted criminal survive the execution. According to tradition, the centurion (often called Longinus- Spearman) was tried and convicted court martial and executed for having let Jesus survive the execution (there is no greater love..). Then again, "tradition" is somewhat ambiguous and fluid, and doesn't prove anything really, but it sounds plausible. Another thing is how Rosemary can't give her love the squeeze on Sunday morning, since he was not fully healed. If you embrace a guy with a hole in his chest, you'd literally sueeze the air out of his chest, and the lungs could lit. burst since the pressure around the lungs could be TOO low, and you'd be back to square one. Or two.


ETA: Though the text says Nicodemus brought enough aloes "to bury a king" this is actually an idiomatic expression of "much" or "tons of it" or even "every thinkable kind" as we would say today-- it's not a reference to any traditional Jewish embalming routines. The expression might actually be an example of what Norwegians would call gallow-humour (check out the patron saint of cooks, Saint Lawrence of Rome who while being fried, said something like "Please turn me over, I'm done on that side"). The aloe species you refer to "aloe gum/resin spice" (see en.wikipedia.org...) is native to the far East, and isn't even an aloe plant, but what is referred to as the spice agarwood.

==> en.wikipedia.org...

The aloë genus however is a family covering more than 500 species and sub species, and it is a succulent…

en.wikipedia.org...

…native to tropical and southern Africa, Madagascar, Jordan, the Arabian Peninsula, and various islands in the Indian Ocean (Mauritius, Réunion, Comoros, etc.). A few species have also become naturalized in other regions (Mediterranean, India, Australia, North and South America, etc.).

It is a medicinal plant and its traditional uses range from cleaning wounds and burn or rash relief. "Aloe vera" can be any of the listed, since it's not really a plant species but a marketing jippo and means "Real Aloe".

According to www.etymonline.com...

The Greek word [U: aloë] probably was chosen for resemblance of sound to the Hebrew [U: ahalim], because the Greek and Latin words referred originally to a genus of plants with spiky flowers and bitter juice, used as a purgative drug

originally posted by: XlllLLLXX
a reply to: TruthSeekerKnight

As a christian I will pray for you. The bible shall not be burned but studied. You need to understand how this world so you can fully grasp what the bible is used for. The bible should not be taken literal. That is your mistake. God is very much alive, more alive & aware then us. Our world is divided into 2 & that is the physical world and spiritual world. The bible is like a blueprint/timeline put here to tell us & warn us about the evil in this world & about the future. Once you actually feel God and talk to him & feel him you will know the truth. If you complain about the bible/God...it does noting to you but cause more sadness.

You should look up how to connect with God on a spiritual level. I bet you have never tried that before. Do it I dare you. Try to pray to God.

As a former Christian, I will pray to the Infinite Creator for your poor soul and you poor mind
You don't just take things from 2000 years ago and make it a fact lol. You Don't take a stone tablet from the past and say guys, this is the latest technology, this iStone is much smarter than the rest of the smart phones, it just doesn't work that way.
1. Let's begin by language, original bible language would be hard to interpret, yet alone translate.
2. It has been edited before. So whats' the point to believe it has been edited, true stories were banned from the Bible, false stories made way. Exclusions include Gospel of Peter, Apocalypse of Peter, Gospel of Thomas, Book of Enoch.
3. Tell me, how can a church look at the gospels/writings of these prophets 1000 years after Christs death and decide what they can put in a book, and what they can't.
4. Christians need to wake the f**k up. You can still listen to the positive K-Love music if you wish.

originally posted by: AzuriteStar

originally posted by: XlllLLLXX
a reply to: TruthSeekerKnight

As a christian I will pray for you. The bible shall not be burned but studied. You need to understand how this world so you can fully grasp what the bible is used for. The bible should not be taken literal. That is your mistake. God is very much alive, more alive & aware then us. Our world is divided into 2 & that is the physical world and spiritual world. The bible is like a blueprint/timeline put here to tell us & warn us about the evil in this world & about the future. Once you actually feel God and talk to him & feel him you will know the truth. If you complain about the bible/God...it does noting to you but cause more sadness.

You should look up how to connect with God on a spiritual level. I bet you have never tried that before. Do it I dare you. Try to pray to God.

...

3. Tell me, how can a church look at the gospels/writings of these prophets 1000 years after Christs death and decide what they can put in a book, and what they can't.

...

The earliest canon, Marcion's, was140 years after Christ and is readable today (if you want to get into it).

Despite the official list, nothing has really been changed or edited in any significant way. We have some really old documents to prove it.

This gospel of Mark, referenced in the OP, is yet another of those documents.

If you reject Christianity, then be strong enough to say that the original teachings were false. Don't base your disagreement on the theory that it was changed by persons unknown after the fact, because that theory stands on particularly shaky ground in the light of evidence.

The Bible has never been buried. Its ancestor Judaism or Pharisee never went extinct. It quickly transitioned to Roman Catholic Church and was active ever since.

Some teachings in the Bible is evil, yes, but not all.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: AzuriteStar

originally posted by: XlllLLLXX
a reply to: TruthSeekerKnight

As a christian I will pray for you. The bible shall not be burned but studied. You need to understand how this world so you can fully grasp what the bible is used for. The bible should not be taken literal. That is your mistake. God is very much alive, more alive & aware then us. Our world is divided into 2 & that is the physical world and spiritual world. The bible is like a blueprint/timeline put here to tell us & warn us about the evil in this world & about the future. Once you actually feel God and talk to him & feel him you will know the truth. If you complain about the bible/God...it does noting to you but cause more sadness.

You should look up how to connect with God on a spiritual level. I bet you have never tried that before. Do it I dare you. Try to pray to God.

...

3. Tell me, how can a church look at the gospels/writings of these prophets 1000 years after Christs death and decide what they can put in a book, and what they can't.

...

The earliest canon, Marcion's, was140 years after Christ and is readable today (if you want to get into it).

Despite the official list, nothing has really been changed or edited in any significant way. We have some really old documents to prove it.

This gospel of Mark, referenced in the OP, is yet another of those documents.

If you reject Christianity, then be strong enough to say that the original teachings were false. Don't base your disagreement on the theory that it was changed by persons unknown after the fact, because that theory stands on particularly shaky ground in the light of evidence.

Oops, just realized that I cross posted from another thread and the OP didn't make reference to the book of Mark.

All other comments still stand, though.

The most glaring problem with trying to refute the gospels is pretty evident for anyone truly reading into all of this.

If the gospel stories of Jesus Christ are not true, why is it when we see texts whether they be gnostic or whatever they always have a different story??

Gospel of Barnabas has beliefs that would seem to give reverence to Islam for example. Another will support that Jesus married Mary Magladene etc...

This is exactly what the bible warned would happen

(2 Peter 2:1-3)





1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.



See the constant theme? the one common link that all the gnostic texts, new age doctrines, pagan religions all have in common is they all have an evident resistance towards the truth of Jesus Christ's deity as spoken in the gospels.

Now, if they all agreed on one theory that easily disproved Christ and the gospels there could be something of substance there, but the problem is they never do that. The story always changes and contradicts itself SO long as it denies Jesus Christ and few seem to recognize this or care. That is the TRADEMARK of a counterfeit copy , it's never steady, consistent and evident.. it's all here say, speculation and desperate attempts to refute Christ's claims.


The word of God stays the same today and forever however, it never changes. and many have gone gladly to their deaths believing that with all of their heart. That speaks volumes in itself..

a reply to: TruthSeekerKnight

because science is a religion at war with every other religion.

My theory is that one day the bible code will tell us how prophesy works by revealing how we share our experiences via our bio energies.
All is love!