Is the West a society of addicts? Or: the change of food

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks


Anonity - In one post you say that you notice fat people every where, then in the next post you say fat people are unremarkable
Which is it?

Before I discuss the effect of one particular food group or another - I would like to explore the question of whether or not there is in fact an obesity crisis

Yoga Ginn - its not a regional chart - it was in wide usage - here is another link from metlife insurance that is actually better because it differentiates between men and woman and includes age as a factor

www.am-i-fat.com...


www.cdc.gov...



United States Average wieght and hieght Males 1950

Hieght 5 feet 8.2 inches Wieght 168 lbs

United States Average wieght and hieght Females 1950

Hieght 5 feet 2 inches Wieght 142 lbs BMI calculated in 1950


Statistics for 2011

www.cdc.gov...
United States - male 2011
Height - 5 feet 9.9 inches Weight - 195.6 BMI 28.9 - Overwieght

Unites States - femal 2011
Height - 5 foot 3.8 inches, Weight - 166.2 BMI in 1950 Overwieght BMI today - 29.4 Overwieght almost obese (170 is obese.

Now I need to find information on average age for each year I have used - wieght and even height varies with age and affects the BMI calculation. Then we can do some clear comparing

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

ok I had the age information and a link but I lost it because my computer crashed. It is however, well known that the population is aging. The link I had showed that the largest population bulge for men and woman in 1950 was 25 to 29, in woman it is between 35 and 39

Now what I was look to do is use the information gathered and calculate BMI in both populations using the old calculation and the new to show the difference. This is the BMI calculator I used www.smartbmicalculator.com...

1950 - Male Height 5 feet 8.2 inches and weight 168 lbs.
1950 BMI calculation using the Met Life table - 168 lbs is normal
2014 BMI calculation 25.5 According to WHO calculation - this person is classed as overwieght

2014 - Male Height 5 feet 8.3 inches and weight is 195.5
1950 BMI calculation using the Met Life table 179 to 183 - this person is overwieght
2014 BMI calculation 28.5 - this person is classed as overwieght

Female 1950 - hieght 5 feet 2 and wieght is 142 lbs
1950 BMI using tables - 141 is ideal
2014 BMI calculation -BMI is 26 and you are classed as overwieght

Female 2011 - height - 5 feet, 3.8 inches and wieght - 166.2
1950 BMI using tables ideal weight is 144 - this individual is 22.2 lbs overweight
2014 BMI calculation - 28.5 - this person is classed as overwieght

so you can see that using modern BMI calculation - EVERY example is classed as overwieght!

But there is one more thing to consider - Bone density.

The generation in 1950 had grown up with hunger during the great depression and fought a world war
The modern generation was never deprived of food. I am assuming that bone density is greater in the modern generation

My point through all of this - is that I very much doubt that the who has any idea of what a person should actually wiegh.

Tired of Control

a reply to: Pitou

I think we'd all be better off focusing on ourselves, and not what the rest of the world eats. I don't care if my neighbors are fat or skinny.

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: nonspecific

I am saying that obesity is a problem but only to the individual involved and absolutely no one elses's business. And yes I completely disagree that it is an "epidemic".

Tired of Control Freaks

This one individual lives in something called a society. That society is comprised of many individuals. Each of these individuals play a role and affect each other in ways that are not easily perceived. If there is an increase in obesity, it affects the society in which all of these individuals reside in. You can't logically separate the individual from the society of which he is dependent on. Yes, individuals are dependent on society. You don't like that? Get out. Go for it. Nobody is keeping you from attempting to live entirely outside of a society on this planet. Good luck!

a reply to: Jamie1

Yes, focus on ourselves. That's exactly what Westerners need. I mean, that's so original. Who would have thought that within the last 30 years? How about we NOT focus on ourselves, how about we turn the tide of pathological self-absorption, and try to... you know, grow up as a culture.

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks


Anonity - In one post you say that you notice fat people every where, then in the next post you say fat people are unremarkable
Which is it?

Before I discuss the effect of one particular food group or another - I would like to explore the question of whether or not there is in fact an obesity crisis

Yoga Ginn - its not a regional chart - it was in wide usage - here is another link from metlife insurance that is actually better because it differentiates between men and woman and includes age as a factor

www.am-i-fat.com...


www.cdc.gov...



United States Average wieght and hieght Males 1950

Hieght 5 feet 8.2 inches Wieght 168 lbs

United States Average wieght and hieght Females 1950

Hieght 5 feet 2 inches Wieght 142 lbs BMI calculated in 1950


Statistics for 2011

www.cdc.gov...
United States - male 2011
Height - 5 feet 9.9 inches Weight - 195.6 BMI 28.9 - Overwieght

Unites States - femal 2011
Height - 5 foot 3.8 inches, Weight - 166.2 BMI in 1950 Overwieght BMI today - 29.4 Overwieght almost obese (170 is obese.

Now I need to find information on average age for each year I have used - wieght and even height varies with age and affects the BMI calculation. Then we can do some clear comparing

Tired of Control Freaks

What I meant is that their are so many obese people around today, compared to twenty years ago, that its becoming the norm. You cant have it both ways, and say all obesity is because the Gov. has changed the measurements. Some would fall into the obese category because of the changes. But are you honestly trying to say that when airlines and shipping have to recalculate the average weight of passengers, because of safety concerns. That this is just the Gov. trying to con us?

a reply to: anonentity

Anonentity

Airlines are not re-calculating wieghts for safety reasons. They are making seats smaller for financial reasons.

qz.com...

Yes - it is a government conspiracy and a WHO conspiracy and a Big Pharma conspiracy! They already did it once - right in your face and you never noticed. They raked in trillions of consumer dollars by doing it.

Take a real good look at how smokers were demonized. Take a real good look at how fat people are demonized. Its the exact same strategy and its for the exact same reason.

Public Health is looking to tax the food industry and put aside money for themselves to "combat" obesity. Big Pharma makes a killing with diet drugs and government gets what government always wants - money and control.

If you don't fit the "norm" (and I have demonstrated, most people don't because the norm is NOT the norm) - get ready to have Public Health employ the same tactics against you that are employed against smokers.

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

1950 - Male Height 5 feet 8.2 inches and weight 168 lbs.
1950 BMI calculation using the Met Life table - 168 lbs is normal
2014 BMI calculation 25.5 According to WHO calculation - this person is classed as overwieght

2014 - Male Height 5 feet 8.3 inches and weight is 195.5
1950 BMI calculation using the Met Life table 179 to 183 - this person is overwieght
2014 BMI calculation 28.5 - this person is classed as overwieght

Female 1950 - hieght 5 feet 2 and wieght is 142 lbs
1950 BMI using tables - 141 is ideal
2014 BMI calculation -BMI is 26 and you are classed as overwieght

Female 2011 - height - 5 feet, 3.8 inches and wieght - 166.2
1950 BMI using tables ideal weight is 144 - this individual is 22.2 lbs overweight
2014 BMI calculation - 28.5 - this person is classed as overwieght

It looks like my educated guess was pretty close to your numbers above. I definitely would have the woman of the '50s well below 144 lbs, if not as low as my 125 at least closer to 130.

OK, I took the challenge and went with the first numbers that came to me. I showed the list to Iwinder before going on a search.
Men in the '50s: 170 and today: 195
Women in the '50s: 125 and today: 168

Below is a link from cbc.ca that shows the obesity rate of 10 countries has been rising.
LINK

I am still trying to find a chart that demonstrates how "the average weight" increases over a period of 30 years or so, but not having much luck.

Namaste,
YogaGinns

a reply to: YogaGinns

As I have demonstrated - everyone is now obese and overwieght because the norm is not the norm and never has been even after extended periods of food poverty.

And still you are so conditioned to think inside a box created for you by people who have no good intentions toward you - that you continue to quote the people who wish to demonize you.

I am sorry Yogaginn but if you can't see what is in front of your face - I can't help you.

For the first time in the whole history of the world - most of the population has food security and you see this as a reason for fear and concern - so how many people starving would ease your mind?
Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

I too am sorry that I don't understand your rational either. You may see the people around you as being normal healthy and not carrying around a lot of extra flesh.

I see a lot of people daily who cannot fit into chairs that have arms, who cannot sit beside another person of similar weight on a bus seat designed for two. Who have difficulty crossing their arms in front of themselves. Their clothes cannot contain their bodies, and I agree with queenofswords that maybe they do not see that the clothes are way too small. I have spent a lot of time in waiting rooms and the majority of those around me are, in MY MIND, obese. Not to mention the children in parks and school yards are getting bigger each year. I can see that easily as there are 8 schools within a short walk of my home.

I totally agree with Pitou's concerns in the OP and information in the documentary. I thank him/her for this thread and want to see how it progresses. Pitou is clearly from across the pond and as such may have a different point of view from you or I. Although I am not sure where you are.

I can see this turning into a pissing match between the two of us as we see things differently. I think you see this from a mathematical front and my approach must be more emotional or imaginary, because I cannot deny what I SEE in an average day. Thank you for your time and discussion and I will continue to search into what you have brought to the table. But I truly want to hear what others are saying and their thoughts on how our food supply has changed.

Respectfully,
YogaGinns

ps: this food wealth that you speak of has been infiltrating other countries that now have bulging waistlines as the video on India has shown.

For the first time in the whole history of the world - most of the population has food security and you see this as a reason for fear and concern - so how many people starving would ease your mind?

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks


Anonity - In one post you say that you notice fat people every where, then in the next post you say fat people are unremarkable
Which is it?

Before I discuss the effect of one particular food group or another - I would like to explore the question of whether or not there is in fact an obesity crisis

Yoga Ginn - its not a regional chart - it was in wide usage - here is another link from metlife insurance that is actually better because it differentiates between men and woman and includes age as a factor

www.am-i-fat.com...


www.cdc.gov...



United States Average wieght and hieght Males 1950

Hieght 5 feet 8.2 inches Wieght 168 lbs

United States Average wieght and hieght Females 1950

Hieght 5 feet 2 inches Wieght 142 lbs BMI calculated in 1950


Statistics for 2011

www.cdc.gov...
United States - male 2011
Height - 5 feet 9.9 inches Weight - 195.6 BMI 28.9 - Overwieght

Unites States - femal 2011
Height - 5 foot 3.8 inches, Weight - 166.2 BMI in 1950 Overwieght BMI today - 29.4 Overwieght almost obese (170 is obese.

Now I need to find information on average age for each year I have used - wieght and even height varies with age and affects the BMI calculation. Then we can do some clear comparing

Tired of Control Freaks

originally posted by: simplesurfer

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks


Anonity - In one post you say that you notice fat people every where, then in the next post you say fat people are unremarkable
Which is it?

Before I discuss the effect of one particular food group or another - I would like to explore the question of whether or not there is in fact an obesity crisis

Yoga Ginn - its not a regional chart - it was in wide usage - here is another link from metlife insurance that is actually better because it differentiates between men and woman and includes age as a factor

www.am-i-fat.com...


www.cdc.gov...



United States Average wieght and hieght Males 1950

Hieght 5 feet 8.2 inches Wieght 168 lbs

United States Average wieght and hieght Females 1950

Hieght 5 feet 2 inches Wieght 142 lbs BMI calculated in 1950


Statistics for 2011

www.cdc.gov...
United States - male 2011
Height - 5 feet 9.9 inches Weight - 195.6 BMI 28.9 - Overwieght

Unites States - femal 2011
Height - 5 foot 3.8 inches, Weight - 166.2 BMI in 1950 Overwieght BMI today - 29.4 Overwieght almost obese (170 is obese.

Now I need to find information on average age for each year I have used - wieght and even height varies with age and affects the BMI calculation. Then we can do some clear comparing

Tired of Control Freaks

Hey one question control freak; how much do you weigh..?

a reply to: simplesurfer

I am five feet tall and I weight 102 lbs - would it make a difference to the information I presented if I was obese?

Tired of Control Freaks

Here is a few more documentaries on obesity, I am still trying to find one I watched a few months ago.


Weight of the Nation - Part 1
Weight of the Nation - Part II
Weight of the Nation - Part III
Weight of the Nation - Part IV


Globesity

Fast Foods, Fat Profits

Namaste,
YogaGinns

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: simplesurfer

I am five feet tall and I weight 102 lbs - would it make a difference to the information I presented if I was obese?

Tired of Control Freaks

Excellent point ControlFreak, it would make no difference at all in my opinion. A very good discussion indeed and with that I am off to bed.

Regards, Iwinder

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: anonentity

Anonentity

Airlines are not re-calculating wieghts for safety reasons. They are making seats smaller for financial reasons.

qz.com...

Yes - it is a government conspiracy and a WHO conspiracy and a Big Pharma conspiracy! They already did it once - right in your face and you never noticed. They raked in trillions of consumer dollars by doing it.

Take a real good look at how smokers were demonized. Take a real good look at how fat people are demonized. Its the exact same strategy and its for the exact same reason.

Public Health is looking to tax the food industry and put aside money for themselves to "combat" obesity. Big Pharma makes a killing with diet drugs and government gets what government always wants - money and control.

If you don't fit the "norm" (and I have demonstrated, most people don't because the norm is NOT the norm) - get ready to have Public Health employ the same tactics against you that are employed against smokers.

Tired of Control Freaks

I agree with a lot of what you have observed. Yes Big Pharma, Big Dairy, Will do everything they can to put a spin on things to maximise profits. They have people in Government for that purpose. But the fact still remains that people really are getting more Obese. Obesity related illness = big profit. Comfort eating =big profit. Blood pressure pills make billions. Why would they want that to change. The erectile dysfunction caused by the poor diet = big profits. The mental depression caused by being overweight =big profits. The average person wouldn't have a clue that he was a cash asset as long as his illness was maintained. Nor would he have a clue on what to do to overcome it, herein lies the dilemma. Do you legislate to improve the nations health, or just let the poor sucker eat himself to death, in the name of freedom of choice.

Its got so bad, that parents are now more likely, to outlive their offspring. The fact that this is occurring, is mainly because of a lack of education on what good eating habits are, people have a hard job changing the habits of a lifetime.

a reply to: anonentity

Anonentity

Your quote "children born today will be outlived by their parents" is a quote from Dr. William Kish, Texas Children's Hospital and was first said in 2010. The quote is based on "intuition" and not science. Hitler said that a population will suffer any deprivation if they can be convinced that it is for the "good of the children.


Children born in 2004 are expected to live into the triple digits.

aabc-certification.org... You will note from the article that there is no such thing as "child obesity". Obesity is a term reserved for adults only as children will often grown into their wieght.

Mark Twain also said "A good lie can travel around the world in the time that it takes for truth to put on its pants".

Man - do you ever like being scared to death.

However, you do bring up a good point and the discussion we should be having.

What is the governments role in public health? Should they be limited to efforts to "educate" the public or should they be allowed to legislate conformance?

You will note that the City of Berkley California has now passed the first tax on soda

www.forbes.com...

How long will it be until the soda industry is sued for its share of assumed health care costs and both the costs of the settlement and the costs of the lawsuit are passed on to consumers? Government, public health and fake activist lobby groups masquarading as charities will all benefit.

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

The thought has just hit me. that we might be seeing a lot more Obese people in the malls these days simply because twenty years back they would all have been dead? Its my bet if you could walk up to them and ask what medication that they were taking, it would be the usual. Their Doctor Would have told them that they were suffering from high blood pressure, Diabetes etc., and put them on the usual mass produced stuff. That would mitigate their symptoms. I also notice that they all look like couples, which probably means that they are on the same diet. So you can bet your bottom dollar that if a particular diet caused the Obesity then their children would have been habituated into the same diet. Or have anoxic issues. Which means that its an intergenerational problem that isn't going away in a hurry.

The Ironic thing is that in the way of human macro economics its a massive money maker, and job provider. The weight reduction industry, Gyms. Medicine, to name but three.

The misinformation on diet is astounding. The truth is, every one seems to have different ideas on whats healthy and unhealthy. They keep the people misinformed and confused for a reason. Obesity is profitable!

People don't have the knowledge on how to eat properly.

a reply to: anonentity

now you are starting to get it Anonentity

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: anonentity

The thought has just hit me. that we might be seeing a lot more Obese people in the malls these days simply because twenty years back they would all have been dead? Its my bet if you could walk up to them and ask what medication that they were taking, it would be the usual. Their Doctor Would have told them that they were suffering from high blood pressure, Diabetes etc., and put them on the usual mass produced stuff. That would mitigate their symptoms.

That pretty much sums up what has been said all along in this thread. Are our illnesses are being created so that drugs can be prescribed?

There is a business in selling the foods that makes us gain weight and get sick. A business in diagnosing the illness/disease. And a business in creating the drugs to combat the symptoms and make us live longer. But for all of this to work on a grand scale, we need to be eating lots of the foods that make us sick in the first place. Which I believe is the premise of the OP.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quote from Tired of Control Freaks

In 1998, the American diabetes Association changed the meaning of fasting glucose concentration. It was reduced from 7.8 to 7.0, thus overnight creating thousands of new diabetics.

I will offer up my experience with this train of thought regarding cholesterol. A year or so ago my doctor called to say the my cholesterol was elevated and that she would prescribe Lipitor for me. Since I'd never had a problem before, nor is cholesterol an issue in my family, I went back to ask about the numbers. I was told that since I was now 55 there is a different calculation which put me in the "watch" zone, where I wasn't before. Not wanting to take the drug I asked for a diet plan to follow, less meats and more fruit, vegetables and grains. I was granted 6 months to lower the numbers which I was able to do without trying very hard.

At my follow up appointment she was very happy with my cholesterol and glad that the Lipitor had helped. When I reminded her that I declined the drug, she said to keep up the good work. And by the way I was borderline diabetic and would most likely need a low dose of Metformin to control it from getting worse. So again I begged of the drugs and made sure that I added more protein back into my diet and backed off on the fruits.

Fast forward to my last appointment and my fasting blood sugar was back down to 4.9 (HbA1c had been 6.1 now down to 5.9 under the radar) but hey your cholesterol is up again, I can give you a prescription for that.

I had also been to see a cardiologist and he never even mentioned the cholesterol being an issue, and he is well aware of all my medications.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am not dropping my view on the increasing waistlines and predominance of overweight/obese people now as compared to when I was a child, but I would like to hear more posters give their views on the pharma side of this topic.

Namaste,
YogaGinns