I think I found God...am I crazy.

a reply to: SaturnFX

Your blanket statement of how all women in porn are victims do nothing but belittle women for their personal choices.

I thought I was very careful about not making a blanket statement about performers in the porn industry. My only statement that could be considered blanket would be that the industry is overall immoral.

Not all performers are victims, but some are. You go online and tell me which videos show a performer being abused and which one shows consent, because I know for a fact a number of the men and women in these videos did not consent to the sex acts inflicted on them during filming. My point was that unless you have first hand knowledge that the people in the video are consenting to what is being done, you can not be exactly sure that someone "performing" has not been the victim of sexual violence.

Lustful eyes is simply a biological signal to the brain encouraging reproduction. there is a reason it feels good

So your argument from nature excuses sexual objectification? And besides what you describe as lust is actually attraction. Lust is passion without reason, as opposed to love which is passion cultivated through reason and virtue.

a reply to: Openeye
Well, first, the adult entertainment industry in the west is highly regulated. It has more regulations than most other industries simply due to people demanding it so. To say some people in it are victims is a view from the 70s when the industry was just starting to take off and not overly monitored. Its a dated view that holds little reality towards today.

They -have- to consent, they have to fill out forms and those forms must be filed in accordance with law. If it isn't filled out clearly, then the entire studio can get shut down, major fines, and potential lawsuits happen. Just because you watch a video of actors pretending to be used and such has little bearing on the truth. You may wish to read up on the rules and regulations of the industry.

moving on.

So your argument from nature excuses sexual objectification? And besides what you describe as lust is actually attraction. Lust is passion without reason, as opposed to love which is passion cultivated through reason and virtue.

Passion always has a reason. In regards to lust, it is a biological attraction and desire..
As far as sexual objectification is concerned, that is a subjective scope. I find many people highly sexually appealing, would gladly knock boots, but that doesn't diminish my views on them having other aspects.

When a person watches an adult movie, they aren't seeking out the actress's views on Chinese currency manipulation or their insight into their spirituality...likewise, if someone is watching a cooking show, the viewer isn't wanting the chef's view on financial management or their views on the ancient alien hypothesis..they want recipes...cooking objectificationism? no..just point driven entertainment.
Objectificationism is lately a way of simply saying focused...and yeah, go figure, sex videos are sex focused..doesn't make them a victim for enjoying (or simply being indifferent about) sex enough to work in the industry. as I said, your views on it isn't about the industry or actors, its simply about how you personally viewed them

and congrats on reigning in a unhealthy view on your life...although, careful not to swing too far in the other direction as you seem to be doing.

a reply to: Openeye

I am a liar...a hypocrite.

Hey me too, I only lie to myself more so than to others however ......

No you are not crazy,

Its your choice if you want label yourself as such, I say belief in God is delusional in many people eyes and using their perception I am one delusional person.

So from one delusional or crazy mind to another, welcome to faith that your experiences have given you.

We are all convinced when it all comes down to the end even if we hide and take our conviction to the grave, I believe we are all convinced in one way or another at some point.


Our own beliefs are really we have in my opinion, some are simply more solid than others, some are beliefs can manipulated but its up to the individual to realize their own beliefs and live by them whatever they are, good or evil are concepts and if one believes they are evil the should live such a life and vice versa.




to you

a reply to: SaturnFX

To say some people in it are victims is a view from the 70s when the industry was just starting to take off and not overly monitored. Its a dated view that holds little reality towards today.

So your argument is that there is no or little abuse in the porn industry?

They -have- to consent, they have to fill out forms and those forms must be filed in accordance with law.

Yes and the law is so fantastic at protecting workers and their rights

Most rapes are unreported, and most rapes within the porn industry follow the same pattern. To be honest its probably even worst because of the social stigma around sex workers, so if a sex worker claims they were raped most of society just assumes they are lying, or even worse deserved it.

Just because you watch a video of actors pretending to be used

Okay you really don't understand what I'm talking about do you? I'm talking about what is being portrayed on the screen, I'm talking about whats happens behind the scenes. I'm talking about the teen girls who go into a casting room thinking they are going to do softcore and then are manipulated into doing hardcore, I'm talking about the men and women that are so strung out on ecstasy, coke, and alcohol that the idea that consent can be given is absurd, as you can consent to sex and still be raped. Go to Russia, or the Czech republic and tell me about the nature of the industry there and the routine sex trafficking and drug trade thats wrapped up in it.

I honestly don't understand how people can defend the industry in today's society, perhaps its because they have known people who have worked in it and say "well I have never heard of any abuse", as if that is supposed to defeat the claim that abuse occurs.

I do not in any way advocate the industry be further regulated, or pornography being banned. I advocate the men and women of virtue hold morally corrupt people accountable for their actions, and that viewers of this material will boycott an industry that is rampant with rape apologists.

Passion always has a reason.

Whats your definition of reason then?

In regards to lust, it is a biological attraction and desire.

No it is not. You are talking about libido, sexual desire. Lust could be considered an extreme version of attraction, but that still does not mean indulging in said attraction is moral. Unless you are arguing all natural feelings are devoid of moral consideration.

Why am I feeling this way? Is it appropriate to be feeling this way? Should I resist these emotions? Are all questions that a human being capable of reason would consider when looking at someone and concocting sexual imagery, not by someone who simply lusts, as they are viewing said person as a sex object, not a human being with feelings and emotions.

if someone is watching a cooking show, the viewer isn't wanting the chef's view on financial management

No but that does not mean he or she is incapable of giving financial advice on their program, and to say that they ought not be able to would be similar to (although not exactly the same as) objectification, because you are reducing their capabilities as a human to what you expect of them...Objectification (not perfect but simple).

a reply to: Openeye

I really appreciate your openness and honesty through this post. I experienced something similar to what you described as well.

I have had my ups and downs with religion over the years. I was raised as a Christian, but in my teens I began to question this belief and by University, I was a somewhat bitter atheist.

One night, I think it was after the Tsunami hit in Japan and I had been watching videos of these poor children searching for their parents and parents of course searching looking for their lost ones, that I became very overwhelmed with the suffering I was witness too. And as we all know, unfortunately the Tsunami is just one example of the suffering that goes on everyday around the globe. Even worse, is the intentional pain we inflict on each other.

But that night, I felt completely broken and although I don’t remember exactly what I said, I asked whoever might be up there something like: “how could this be allowed to happen?”

A short while later, I fell asleep and when I woke up, I felt as though I had been surrounded by that feeling of love and peace that you described. I don’t remember my dream but the feeling of love and warmth lasted for quite a while. And I’ve never felt like that after a dream before or since.

I don’t know anything for sure, it could of course be just a chemical reaction going on in my mind. But I’ve never forgotten this experience and secretly hope that it might be somehow tied to something divine.

To me, the best evidence that there might be an afterlife are past life regression sessions and NDE’s. (Just in case your interested)

Sorry for the late reply. I wasn't sure how to, or if I even wanted to. However this thread keeps popping up into my mind so...

originally posted by: Openeye
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

The video made me laugh lol. Though I have issues with it (devils advocate mode on

). First off the personal relationship between man and God is immediately framed as direct link to undisputed truth, while some religions may claim this...I never did...whats to say that the relationship between God and man is not perfect, but flawed due to the reality of human nature and its capacity to conform to social pressures and result to violence.

I understand you never made the claim that you felt you had a sudden link with undisputed truth. As you are aware many religious people do, more or less, in one way or another. I agree with you that, if there is indeed a God out there, who's to say the relationship with man isn't "flawed due to the reality of human nature and its capacity to conform to social pressures". But now we need to ask ourselves how are we supposed to figure out what messages truly come from God and what messages don't. What about the Bible? How much of it should we consider man made compared to divinely inspired? None of it? Some of it? All of it? Not even Christians agree on how to interpret it. Look at the countless denominations and personal interpretations. What about the other holy books and texts of other religions past and present? How do they fit in? What about other Gods? How are we supposed to figure out which God and which message is the most unclouded by human nature?

Secondly the point is raised that their cultures influenced their belief systems, well of course they did, how is this an argument against the concept of God? Religions in modern society despite being formed in specific geographic borders are now international, and If you look at all religions and compare their philosophies, all of them conform in some some way to the golden rule. They do so in many other areas as well mostly in areas concerning virtue (e.g. prudence, temperance, humility, etc) . Who's to say that God's influence and or message is not felt through command and conformity, but through the simple experience of living and gaining knowledge through those experiences.

Of course, there is nothing wrong with the golden rule. Who's to say it comes from God though? Why does it have to have come from God? We could also compare the philosophies of other religions in regards to how they deal with people of other faiths. Most, but not all, teach to kill those of other belief systems. Thankfully not all of their followers adhere to those teachings today (though some do). The point is they did at one time (in the case of Christianity). And they may again in the future (though unlikely imho), under certain circumstances. Should we just chalk up the un-virtuous messages as man and the virtuous ones as coming from God? Why can't they all be the result of man and the experiences of living and gaining knowledge through those experiences, throughout the ages?

It seems evident to me that the conclusions we have reached are not the product of religious conformity but by mans introspective conflict with its own nature.

Sorry. Which conclusions?

The last point the atheist in the video makes is that if God had a message to human beings why is it so confusing given that he is a perfect being. Perhaps God's influence is indistinguishable from reason, and given what I posit in the first paragraph of my response to your post, that would mean that God's message (if it could even be called that) was never intended to be flawlessly interpreted or received, but instead to be discovered through reason and self knowledge. The idea that God created a perfect is obviously wrong, because the world is not perfect. So how is this argument anything other than one against dogma?

In your opinion, what is "God's message"?

What makes you believe there really is a God? What is your exact concept of God? What evidence (subjective or objective) do you have to support your version of God? Can any of that evidence stand up to scrutiny? Are you certain it is not your human nature and your experiences causing you to believe there is a God?

If you take away all the doctrines and dogmas of this or that religion, what are you left with?

I know this video is satire but I must be candid here...most YouTube atheists are asses. Thunderf00t, TAA, Dusty, most all of them are bigots who hate religious people.

Hey I love Thunderf00t! His videos pointing out the hypocrisy of people (religious or otherwise), or exposing stupid internet hoaxes are funny! Those other guys you mentioned I can't stand either though. Way too much ranting and shouting to be informative in any way. Personally my favorite atheists with a YouTube presence are Aron Ra, and Matt Dillahunty of the Atheist Experience.