New Proposed Etymology: "Israel"

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: TheJourney

Think the difference in names represents the view of God from a specific state of enlightenment. When we become more enlightened we can realize the higher states of God (like hinduism and their many faces of the one creator). The book of Zohar explains it in great antagonising detail.

Perhaps. And I have studied various expositions of the meaning of the God-names, and contemplated them. And I like the idea of having these different meanings for the different God-names. It's fine and good. However, my thing is that it doesn't seem to have any actual relationship to the bible. It moreso seems like people just came up with these notions. It's like, the question is simply whether you subscribe to these notions of the god-names. It's not like, you can hear meanings which the names are claimed to have, and then read through the bible and be like, aha, that meaning does align with the context of the usage of that god-name. I've tried doing that before, and couldn't see it. The names all just seemed pretty clearly intermingled in a pretty arbitrary way. Again, there may be good use in contemplating the meanings which are given to these god-names. I just mean, the ideas seem to be their own source, separate from the bible. I would certainly find it intriguing if differences of meaning could be demonstrated as existing biblically. It just doesn't seem to be the case.

originally posted by: Sahabi
No one was hung. Figuratively, when we say someone is "bound," it means that they are "subdued".

Bad serpent? What's that supposed to mean?

Sorry for my rude reply and my likening rope to serpent, and the fight to illustrate a sort of allegorical parallell to Michael tossing down Satan. I honestly don't know why i included the hanging part, but it could relate to one or a couple of tragedies I experienced around that time with people i knew who committed suicide that way. Besides, I was probably drunk as a sailor.

Elohim is not a name it is a class.

a reply to: BigBangWasAnEcho

Hello BigBangWasAnEcho. Thanks for taking the time to check out the thread.

"Elohim is not a name it is a class."

That is your opinion, however, Jewish, Christian, Catholic, Mormon, and secular sources say that it is a name:

Jewish Virtual Library

The first Name used for God in scripture is Elohim. In form, the word is a masculine plural of a word that looks feminine in the singular (Eloha). The same word (or, according to Maimonides, a homonym of it) is used to refer to princes, judges, other gods, and other powerful beings. This Name is used in scripture when emphasizing God's might, His creative power, and his attributes of justice and rulership. Variations on this name include El, Eloha, Elohai (my God) and Elohaynu (our God).

Jewish Encyclopedia

The most common of the originally appellative names of God is Elohim plural in form though commonly construed with a singular verb or adjective. This is, most probably, to be explained as the plural of majesty or excellence, expressing high dignity or greatness

Strong's Concordance

Plural of 'elowahh; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative -- angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.

Catholic Encyclopedia

Elohim is the common name for God.

Encyclopedia of Mormonism

Elohim appears in the Hebrew Bible as a common noun identifying Israel's God:
"In the beginning God [elohim ] created [singular verb] the heaven and the earth" (Gen. 1:1).

It was also frequently used interchangeably with Jehovah, the proper name for Israel's God:
"And Jacob said, O God [elohim ] of my father Abraham,…the Lord [Jehovah] which saidst unto me, Return unto thy country" (Gen. 32:9).

Encyclopedia Britannica

Elohim, singular Eloah , (Hebrew: God), the God of Israel in the Old Testament. A plural of majesty, the term Elohim—though sometimes used for other deities, such as the Moabite god Chemosh, the Sidonian goddess Astarte, and also for other majestic beings such as angels, kings, judges (the Old Testament shofeṭim), and the Messiah—is usually employed in the Old Testament for the one and only God of Israel, whose personal name was revealed to Moses as YHWH, or Yahweh.

In addition to being a name of God, in certain context, the use of "Elohim" may also be referring to deities in the plural, angels, rulers, and/or judges.

It is no coincidence that the ancient Canaanite "Father of the Gods" is named "El", and that the Hebrew Scriptures use the term Elohim.

a reply to: Sahabi

Also-- and this is indeed my humble opinion as well, and for that matter so is the reigning consensus concerning the supposed name or word(s) Elohim-- if we split up the linguistically highly irregular noun Elohim into Heb. אל-ה-ים it can be read as «El-Ha-Yam», which could easily translate into «The God Yam» or «God The Yam».

Remember that «in the beginning» the Torah was written as one long serpent of text. No spaces between the words, no mesora or niqqud diacritics nor punctuation or paragraphs and clauses, just an endless row of syllables, one consonant after the other from start to end-- so we don't really know how the words were supposed to be divided or put together. There are plenty similar examples.

At least this makes sense to me, and would also explain perfectly why the associated Heb. verb ברא «bara» in ex. Genesis 1:1 is singular, for there is only one Yam and in Genesis 1 Elohim is awfully concerned about water, busy dividing and moving about seas and waters and even relates to the cosmos as oceans. In Canaanite and Ugaritic tradition Yam was the favorite of the father-god El, and is his main ally against Baal who is Zeus and Satan.

This interpretation of Elohim would also explain how Elohim is said to have slain a Serpent and/or a Dragon (like in Job and Isaiah), which is exactly what Yam did in the Ugaritic texts. In Hebrew ים «yam» is the word for sea, ocean &c in general. And this would also fit in nicely with the idea that Genesis 1 is inspired by Enuma Elish and its main character Enki, god of the sea and water, who also slew the dragon Tiamat using his son as his instrument, which in turn alludes to the arch angel Michael and his way with the Dragon.

What do you guys think?