5 Complete Lies About America's New $18 Trillion Debt Leve

originally posted by: jude11
There is no way to fix America. It will fall and it's been falling for years.

Not just the DEBT but the people themselves are crumbling from within. The control over the masses from what they buy, eat, earn, how they are taught, the numerous laws that can have people paying fines out of pocket every single Day, police state, Orwellian surveillance, racism...

I believe there is no way up for America from where it is right now. It has to crumble completely to rebuild again. The problem? What will it become since we never learn from history?

Peace

Of course, thinking like yours is part of the problem too. Defeatism, acceptance of failure, etc. For myself, I'm doing just fine. I make a good wage, I enjoy my life. I eat what I want within reason, watch what I want, read what I want, go where I want. Mean ol' government isn't ruling my life or fining me every day and evil corporations aren't brainwashing me into anything either. I'm living life in the good old U.S. of A. and enjoying every day. But that's just me...

originally posted by: xuenchen

a reply to: Indigo5

I'd try to explain if I thought math or reality mattered to you.

Please do.

I am interested in the explanation.

OK...Social Security for example..
In 1983, Congress allowed for Social Security to gather "reserves" in order to pay for the soon to be aging "Baby-Boom" generation. Great idea and worked like a charm...as a matter of fact, too well..

As those reserves started to accumulate, congress then started to look at that money and say...well..we will just "borrow" a little from the retirement fund and pay it back later and started to "raid" Social Security and stuffing it with IOU's to be paid back later..

Now is later...

So if you count Social Security as it was designed, promised and legislated...an insurance fund..a collection of secure money collected from citizens to fund survival in their later years when they are less able to work..it is solvent and solid.

BUT..if you are of the conservative mind who might disregard the definition of social insurance and lump it into "tax revenues" without discretion...Then you view all of that Raiding of SS reserves as Money Gone...the IOUs that Congress stuffed in reserves in place of the funds as worthless and you shout that paying those IOUs is part of the deficit...so lets not pay the IOUs and instead cut "entitlements" etc.

The Conservative right wing that are corporatists have been pushing this view (SS is just another revenue stream and tax) because congress paying back the IOU's from the raiding of the SS reserves costs money...and congress needs the money from someone...either upping taxes on the wealthy or corporations...or cutting benefits aka..stiffing SS recipients on the IOUs. In order to disregard the IOUs congress wrote to the SS fund when they took the reserves (money paid in by future retirees at the time)...they must first claim the IOUs they stuffed in the reserves box as they took funds are meaningless, cuz it's all just "revenues" vs. "Social Insurance".

My view?...Congress took the money, they owe the money. Retirees shouldn't pay the price for unfunded wars, tax breaks for the wealthy and corporations etc. It is and has always been.. legally, morally and any way you look at it...dedicated Social Security contributions...not spend as you please taxes.

SO..If you calculate Social Security absent the reserves (aka...screw you, we took the money, you are not getting it back, forget the IOUs we wrote) then yes, we have run in negative territory for the past 3 years.

If you count the reserves on the books (now a pile of IOUs from Congress), which we do right now...then SS is solvent until 2033 under worst case scenario projections. Before 2033 we can tweak a fix..raise retirement age, increase collections, reduce benefits etc. etc.

The issue is the IOUs...who funds paying that back? Or do we not pay it back at all? Thus right wing suggestions of eliminating social security, hacking benefits rather than paying it back...handing over the whole fund to Wall Street to play with, etc. So it becomes a question of who you think should be on the hook for those IOUs...frankly I don't care as long as those IOUs are actually paid back...cuz SS is solvent, it was designed to be so and is, complete with reserves paid for by those future retirees at the time...Congress decided to borrow from those reserves...they owe the money. Screwing SS recipients rather than paying the IOUs doesn't seem fair to me.

a reply to: Indigo5

Thanks for the reply.

These "IOUs"....

What form of collateral is used?

a reply to: xuenchen

Name me one instance where the Federal Government used any 'collateral' when borrowing money. Keeping in mind that any 'collateral' allegedly owned by the Feds in truth belongs to all of us. It would be like me pawning your laptop (but my guess is there would be a large number of ATSers applauding that transaction).

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Indigo5

Thanks for the reply.

These "IOUs"....

What form of collateral is used?

Non publicly traded or available special US Treasury Bonds.

CBPP August 2014

What Is the Trust Funds’ Financial Status?

Social Security is adequately financed in the short term but faces a modest long-term financial shortfall amounting to 1.0 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) over the next 75 years, the period that the program’s actuaries use in evaluating the program’s long-term finances.[3]

Social Security has run a surplus in every year since 1984, as was anticipated when Congress enacted and President Reagan signed the legislation based on the recommendations of the Greenspan Commission in 1983. The authors of the 1983 legislation purposely designed program financing in this manner to help pre-fund some of the costs of the baby boomers’ retirement.

Under current projections, the combined Social Security trust funds will continue to run annual surpluses until 2020. The interest income that the trust funds earn on their bonds, as well as the proceeds the trust funds will receive when their bonds are redeemed, will enable Social Security to keep paying full benefits until 2033.

...

In 2033, the combined trust funds are projected to run out of Treasury bonds to cash in.

www.cbpp.org...

originally posted by: jtma508
a reply to: xuenchen

Name me one instance where the Federal Government used any 'collateral' when borrowing money.

I believe the exact answer is "The full faith and credit of the U.S. government"

So it's kind of a 'faith" thing..

a reply to: Indigo5
Yea... sorta like Wimpy in the old Popeye cartoons. 'I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today'.

originally posted by: jtma508
a reply to: Indigo5
Yea... sorta like Wimpy in the old Popeye cartoons. 'I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today'.

Yes...except come Tuesday wimpy shows up with a bat and instead of paying him back..pummels the street vendor who gave him the hamburger.

a reply to: smarterthanyou

Social programs comprise most of the national debt?

Yup.

n 2010 alone, government at all levels oversaw a transfer of over $2.2 trillion in money, goods and services. The burden of these entitlements came to slightly more than $7,200 for every person in America. Scaled against a notional family of four, the average entitlements burden for that year alone approached $29,000.

online.wsj.com...

That wasn't counting the student loan debt that is now over 1 trillion dollars.

Hell the US by the numbers linked again since it gets ignored so often.

www.usdebtclock.org...

Hell federal tax revenue is a little over 3 trillion.

I'm sure theres plenty more waste and fraud that is unreported.

All social programs are WASTE, and FRAUD.

Since they are corporate fascism.

Rob from the minority to pay for the majority. All so they can go out, and buy more stuff.

originally posted by: doobydoll
Corruption is like a cancer, it needs to suck the life of a host in order to exist and has to be cut out at the earliest sign or it will destroy its host. Of course, destroying its host means it also is doomed to die. Let's hope the same fate awaits the cancer that is 'corruption'.

Unfortunately in this sense, the corrupt cancer are the most powerful and wealthy people in government and enterprise. They'll simply jump ship and take root in another country. The only way to have a government that works is to have strict regulation on the individuals in power, but what incentive do they have to regulate themselves?

It's a problem with humanity. Not government, countries, economies, or races.

We spend half a trillion a year on our military budget. Sequester that to bare minimum and with any luck we might paid it back. In like 30-40 years. Or we can fight some more pointless wars and kill a bunch more folks, scare and exploit a bunch more poor and indigenous people, just so big business can get more rich Americans even more rich. Sad but true.

The Collateral used for these IOU's xuenchen is The Faith, Good Standing and Morality of Politicians, That's as Good as it Gets Arjunanda, a reply to: xuenchen