Dying man cured with vitamin C, doctors deny it.

I was thinking the other day about why doctors are so against alternative treatments, and then I realized that it has to do with where they get their information. What they are taught while in school can be controlled from the top down. The vast majority of what doctors learn in medical school is what they should be learning, but it does not take much to turn them against any forms of alternative treatment. And then after they graduate, they have to look to the medical literature in one form or another, which also can easily be controlled from the top down. So these people likely have no way to get accurate information, IF in fact those with the money to influence others truly want to demonize these alternative treatments. And who has the most to lose, besides the afflicted person? The pharmaceutical companies, and to a lesser extent all the other organizations making a killing off of the medical industry, pun intended.

a reply to: JiggyPotamus

There have been lots of clinical trials using alternative medicines. Most of them work no better than placebo. That's why doctors aren't exactly enthusiastic about them.

a reply to: babybunnies

Hi babybunnies I've never heard of this before. How do you know this and have you actually seen it work? Thanks

originally posted by: DaRAGE
OK Guys i want an answer. They wanted him on 100 grams vitamin c intravenous. intravenous is 70% conversion.
Lipositomal is 80% conversion..

If i were to take 50 grams vitamin C lipositamol would my bowels play up? would anything go wrong? Can you overdose?

I'm seriously considering buying an ultrasonic cleaner and getting this huge mega doses of vitamin c going.

Please help me. Thanks.

I wouldn't recommend using anywhere near what they used on the man who was dying. It's one thing to put 100 grams of it in someone who's practically dead anyway, but don't risk your health. From what I've read in the past, most healthy people (who aren't in need of excessive doses) start to have diarrhea and other issues around the 13,000mg per day range. That number is likely not solid, and varies from person to person based on need and tolerance.

I certainly wouldn't advise starting off on that sort of dosage. If you're suffering from some sort of sickness or disease and are hoping this will help you, then start off at a reasonable dose. Something like 6,000mg per day.

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: JiggyPotamus

There have been lots of clinical trials using alternative medicines. Most of them work no better than placebo. That's why doctors aren't exactly enthusiastic about them.

This is true. The "docs are taught to hate alternative medications in medical school" is an oft repeated myth. My medical school taught quite a bit on nutrition, vitamins, and "alternative medicine" as well as did a lot of research.

The trouble is, when one believes in science, that one wants hard proof that something has some benefit. There is a lot of interesting information on vitamin C and vitamin C is given consideration by mainstream medicine for it's anti-oxidant properties and Brigham's did a nice 5,000 patient controlled study on vitamin C and arthritic pain.

That being said, although this case is interesting, it is not proof that Vitamin C helped the patient in question.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

The trouble is, when one believes in science, that one wants hard proof that something has some benefit. There is a lot of interesting information on vitamin C and vitamin C is given consideration by mainstream medicine for it's anti-oxidant properties and Brigham's did a nice 5,000 patient controlled study on vitamin C and arthritic pain.

That being said, although this case is interesting, it is not proof that Vitamin C helped the patient in question.

And on the flip side of the coin.

There is very little proof or evidence that cancer is helped, or cured by anything that is available in the medical field.

Maybe it's just mind over matter and we don't need doctors for anything other than physical patch work, and someone to whine too.

Many doctors, especially surgeons have a god-like complex which make them above anything else, this mentality coupled with Big Pharma profit machine is not a good combination.

On a good note their are a select few doctors that actually care and have compassion, but this is a rare breed these days. And most like we will not find many in the USA.

Peace,

RT

originally posted by: Realtruth

originally posted by: NavyDoc

The trouble is, when one believes in science, that one wants hard proof that something has some benefit. There is a lot of interesting information on vitamin C and vitamin C is given consideration by mainstream medicine for it's anti-oxidant properties and Brigham's did a nice 5,000 patient controlled study on vitamin C and arthritic pain.

That being said, although this case is interesting, it is not proof that Vitamin C helped the patient in question.

And on the flip side of the coin.

There is very little proof or evidence that cancer is helped, or cured by anything that is available in the medical field.

Maybe it's just mind over matter and we don't need doctors for anything other than physical patch work, and someone to whine too.

Many doctors, especially surgeons have a god-like complex which make them above anything else, this mentality coupled with Big Pharma profit machine is not a good combination.

On a good note their are a select few doctors that actually care and have compassion, but this is a rare breed these days. And most like we will not find many in the USA.

Peace,

RT

Obviously, I'm going to disagree with most of what you posted above, but what can you do. People will believe what they want to believe.

Just wanted to address liposomal C. The homemade version (jewelry cleaner, oil, c) makes an emulsion, more than any true liposomes... so it's still beneficial, but very few liposomes (or of the correct size) are actually made that way. Some estimate the best homemade/ DIY methods create around 20% encapsulation, but the majority are around 10%. I got that info from both a biochemist acquaintance who did a study with a scanning electron microscope (and it was addressed on the discussion forum at vitamincfoundation.org).

So if it's a serious condition, finding real, lab-made liposomal C is recommended (and note that real liposomes are wet, like teensy microscopic soap bubbles and have to be the right size... between 50 to 200 nanometers).

If you are simply supplementing, then the home made version is fine ... keeping in mind that it's likely low in it's liposome count and IF any liposomes are made, then one should be mindful of contaminants in their workspace (use distilled water, keep cleaning chem residue/germs away). A true liposome bypasses the body's protective measures ... digestive, immune system... and dumps it's load straight into a cell... so make sure it's clean.

a reply to: NavyDoc

You can believe all you want too, I take it you deny true advancement in this field is caused by the trillions of dollars that is made very SLOWLY advancing the treatments.

And totally disregarding a good many options , burying of reports, tests, and only testing that which will make the companies billions.

Try not to forget, the system is NOT the doctors, it has its own set of rules, that you are largely forced to swallow.....

a reply to: NavyDoc

That being said, although this case is interesting, it is not proof that Vitamin C helped the patient in question.

True, there was no control group ...or controls at all... it could've been a prayer said by a little girl in Mexico City for all we really know... but without major funding and careful study, all we're (mostly) left with is anecdotes and extrapolation. That being said, the cause and effect indicates c as being the primary factor in this case... but it isn't definitive.

However a main point of contention re: C is one side saying that proper dosing makes all the difference... and the studies quoted by the "not overly beneficial" side used far too little c to have the effect seen and experienced by "enthusiasts." And there are the studies that had positive results, too!

All I know is that the many reports I've heard point to c as being beneficial for a wide variety of conditions (and the personal experiences I had supports this)... and until some big money is spent on more decent research, all we have are those personal reports. Though c being cheap and non toxic makes it hard to see why one wouldn't try it first against many illnesses. Why not?

ETA and want to add that there are a host of decent studies that support the curative effects of c, too... though many are relatively old (Klenner comes to mind). But thinking there is only anecdotal evidence is wrong.

a reply to: Baddogma

The research I've done supports what you're saying. Tests have pretty much proven that the ultrasonic cleaner method using lecithin simply does not make liposomes, but it still makes a damn good vitamin C (emulsion).

As you stated, real liposomal C gets into the cells. It's incredible.

Even this M.D. has good things to say about the homeade ultrasonic cleanerlecithin C.
"However, the ultrasonic treatment does results in a legitimate emulsion, which is absorbed much better than just regular vitamin C. However, that is just absorption into the blood, not enhanced uptake inside the cells, as with liposomes."

Liposomal C

The doctor appears to be putting in a plug for that brand of liposomal C, but I have heard incredible things about it. It runs about 30 bucks on Amazon.

a reply to: NavyDoc

You don't have to agree with anything I say, but the facts are clear.

The medical community makes money off of people being sick, not healthy people, so what is the point of the entire system to have people healthy.

Educating or even promoting a healthy lifestyle doesn't start with prescribing medication, or even running countless unnecessary tests that cost 1000's of dollars, to line pockets of the medical community.

The problem lies on many levels of ignorance and greed. Ignorance from the people not taking better care of themselves and greed driven because the medical community pander's to these types of people, all the while draining them, and the system of money.

The reason I'm able to say this is because I worked in finance, with large hospitals and large doctors clinics for years. Next to the banking systems, the medical community is an avenue to fleece untold sums of money from people that typically do have the money in the first place.

I saw first hand how they overcharge, run unnecessary tests, and when a client isn't able to pay outrageous sums of money for the treatments, they sell the debt for 10 to 20 cents on the dollar to a collection agency.

I'm sure there are good doctors out there that do good, but so far from what I have seen not many of them are in the business to just make a living.

Unfortunately that is what most people are doing in our society, just making a living, or barely getting by.

Godlike complex means that people think they are worth more than their human counterparts.

A typical doctor makes how much a year?

a reply to: ColeYounger

Yeah, that brand of liposomal is fine... the first one made, I believe.

Interestingly (to me, anyway) the manufacturing of c has almost completely moved to China... except for two factories to my knowledge.

Chinese vitamin c is likely fine, though... it better be!

As long as it's inspected, ISO approved, and labeled as "l-ascorbic acid" (or using a sodium ascorbate derived from the L-ascorbic acid) I'd bet it's okay, and certainly less expensive.

Another point of interest is, as I understand it, that most c sold as "ascorbic acid" is a mix of the two molecules, L-ascorbic and D-ascorbic acids... and they can do that as the law doesn't differentiate... but the D molecule is widely thought to be inferior ...even inert. It is what the L form degenerates into naturally.

So look for the "L-ascorbic" specifically, and it should be fine. I noticed a huge difference for the better when I used the specific "L" form... so much so that I suspect the above info is correct.

The Foundation's in-house brand uses European "Quali-C" ... and it's the best I've tried, and the only lab made liposomal using non-Chinese sourcing... but expensive... unless you buy in bulk!

ETA: and as far as homemade lipo c, this recipe produced the most real liposomes (23% or so) according to that biochemist who investigated them ... a vet devised it:

Horsedoc herbal liposomal c recipe



Oh and Sodium ascorbate ... c bound to a salt molecule, is the form most labs use for liposomal c as it makes more stable liposomes... though the L-ascorbic acid should be okay for a homemade emulsion, too.