White teen killed by black cop in Alabama mirrors Ferguson...yet no outrage

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

You've said quite a few times now "I dont know the facts, and neither do you, BUT yadayadayada".. Why do you keep putting other people down for their opinions when they dont know the facts, then admitting that you are just as in the dark as they are but then portray YOUR OPINION as the be all end all truth and screaming "logic" as if you've somehow used logic more than anyone else.

It makes absolutely no sense and is turning into one ongoing rant where the main theme seems to be "I admit i dont know #, but the # i dont know is still more true than the # you dont know".

Is this really the argument you're trying to make? It's all i can get out of it. It's why i've stopped posting.

a reply to: snarky412

It's only a race issue if you are racist. Will you see hords of white people protesting and burning down their own town over this....no, no you won't.

The cop acted as he felt he needed to act.

Many people are killed by unarmed folk every day.

a reply to: ChuckNasty

I dont see the sense in that. If im not racist, yet another person shot me and said their specific reason for it was because i was white and they dont like white people, it still must not be a racist attack because i wasnt racist therefor racism doesnt exist in the world.

I wish racism could just be ignored away. But it's not that easy.

I've witnessed racism on many occasions, in many different places. I have tried to ignore it, and it never helped anything.

Just because no cops ever pulled you over and when you ask "whats the problem, officer?" he responds "Your white" or whatever color does not mean that racism doesnt exist.

Also, you said "It's only racist if you're a racist", then immediately made what some could call a racist statement in the very next sentence. So, since you are a racist, I'm assuming the issue at hand is racism?

a reply to: Bundy

My response was to the OP and not you...

Sorry for your feelings. No one shot anyone and stated their reason....

Not sure the direction you are going with your statements.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: 3u40r15m

Quit trolling. Some of us expressed opinions based off our interpretation of the evidence presented. Some of us even have some knowledge of law and legal proceedings to draw from. Just because you disagree and have a different opinion doesn't make either side more or less right.

That being said, given the relatively brief explanation of what happened in this case, I would think the officer had no, or sketchy at best, grounds for lethal force.

And no, his race has nothing to do with it.

Can you give me an example of my "trolling".... Knowledge of the law and legal this and that mean nothing. You don't know me, what i do, or what i stand for. And race has alot to do with everything. Idk what country you live in.... But in America, racism is alive and well.

originally posted by: Nyiah
It's not going to cause a media firestorm because most white people -- or even Asians if it was an Asian, or Hispanic if it was a Hispanic -- aren't going to use the excuse of slavery/past racist treatment to get a Carte Blanche on their behavior. Because they know it wouldn't get them anywhere.

The past is not at excuse to act like an asshole, no matter what. Unfortunately, the US is so PC right now that telling an ethnic group that is considered a faux pas. What I can't figure out is when did it become ok for just one group to behave as wildly as possible in situations like this, whereas if anyone else did it, it would be instantly racist and crass?

Probably one of the most ignorant things I've read on here....

originally posted by: ChuckNasty
a reply to: snarky412

It's only a race issue if you are racist. Will you see hords of white people protesting and burning down their own town over this....no, no you won't.

Agreed...so why not remove race from your statement? Here [edited]

originally posted by: ChuckNasty
a reply to: snarky412

It's only a race issue if you are racist. Will you see hordes of people protesting and burning down their own town over this....no, no you won't.

OK...no longer quite makes sense without the "White" qualifier?

What can we substitute? Generationally impoverished people? discriminated against? oppressed?

See...absent color, as you suggested, the statement speaks to a more accurate truth.

"White" people do, in fact, riot in a similar manner, when oppressed and impoverished and discriminated against.

Maybe look to the recent history of Northern Ireland? You can't count the riots..The violence was immeasurable.

Or the NYC Draft riots? Or any of a mass of riots by "white folks" in the USA as different "white" groups struggled under oppression and discrimination.

Either of which would make Ferguson look like a tiny complaint.

You were right in one part...it's not a white/black thing...it is an economic/social thing...and it only becomes a black/white thing when people choose to skip the part that Black or White does not equal X. The question is...what do the Ferguson police see? People or colors? Ditto for everyone else involved. And how does seeing color first further perpetuate the economic/social consequence and drive the circle of oppression.

originally posted by: ChuckNasty
a reply to: snarky412

The cop acted as he felt he needed to act.

No doubt he did. Doesn't make it a just shooting. Cops aren't entitled to shoot when they "feel" they need to. That is why there is supposed to be training. Feelings have nothing to do with it.

Personally? Having scoped over all the testimony and evidence and listened to the interviews and audio of the gunfire?

I believe the officer did what he thought he had to. I also believe he lied about a few parts of what happened to cover his butt. A handful of things don't line up with the evidence and the officers story changed in a few fundamental ways.

Just my opinion. Absent video, the full truth is dead.

I'll give you a hint...He testified repeatedly that he heard the call go out for the robbery suspect wearing a black tee-shirt, like Michael Brown and that triggered the event. That robbery call was recorded...and the dispatcher got the description wrong...she said White t-shirt twice on the radio...not black..

Also listen to the audio of the gun fire and try to reconcile it with what the officer describes from a time perspective.

He also claims to have called it in several times during the incident, but his radio was mysteriously on the wrong channel and no one heard him? But after the shooting he managed to call it in properly.

The other street witnesses weren't much help...different stories and fuzzy recollections...but what Officer Wilson claims happened doesn't align either.

It should be noted that the Grand Jury decided that there was not sufficient evidence to indict him, not that he had been proven innocent.

a reply to: Indigo5

Again, my reply was in response to the OP and not yours. I live in America and not Ireland.

Sorry you feel so strongly that I don't give a hoot if a black cop kills a white person.

Should I feel better if it was a white cop?

originally posted by: ChuckNasty
a reply to: Indigo5

Again, my reply was in response to the OP and not yours. I live in America and not Ireland.

ATS has a private message option. If you did not want your post public then perhaps you shouldn't have posted it on this forum for discussion?

originally posted by: ChuckNasty
a reply to: Indigo5
Sorry you feel so strongly that I don't give a hoot if a black cop kills a white person.

I missed the part where I told you that is how you feel?

originally posted by: ChuckNasty
a reply to: Indigo5
Should I feel better if it was a white cop?

Nothing personal..but I am not your therapist..perhaps you should decide how you should feel?

a reply to: mahatche


Well if we are going to play the 'time warp' game

Truth be told, the Native American Indians are the ones that have been massacred, their land taken from them and been 'oppressed' over the years, and they've been here a long, long time, waaaay before any blacks were sent here by their people

This is more their land then the blacks or whites



And I myself here on ATS have been called a hater/racist from other members because I disagree with Obama's Foreign policies along with his handling of the southern border
[I'm an Independent so I could care less about political parties much less skin color]

Had Romney won I might still be dissatisfied with his policies as well, but at least I would not have to fear being called a racist because of it

a reply to: lance_covel

No, there should be an outcry for justice in both cases. Neither one should be a race issue, it should be an issue of the use of deadly force on our nations children when there should ALWAYS be a better method. It should be a case of "We need to stop the police from going too far!"

Yes, point well taken

Some say the difference between this one and the MB incident is because this guy was under the influence and therein lies the justice

Well being under the influence is a lot easier to accept than one that has a naturally aggressive attitude that defies authority -- steal and strong arm the store owner, manhandle a cop and grab for his gun--all this while being straight

But both need to be looked at closely for any kind of wrong doing
And in both, the GJ found no reasonable evidence to pursue any further against the officer/security guard in question

Except one cop still has the DOJ on his azz while the other is forgotten about


What no one will address is that MB criminal actions is what set all this into motion that fateful tragic day, him alone and his aggressive attitude toward the store owner as well as the cop

But hey, let's just burn this bi#ch down!!!!

originally posted by: snarky412
a reply to: lance_covel


What no one will address is that MB criminal actions is what set all this into motion that fateful tragic day, him alone and his aggressive attitude toward the store owner as well as the cop

Just for the sake of clarity..Your cause and effect are premised on the idea that Michael Brown was both (a) recognized as a suspect in the store robbery by officer Wilson and that is what led to the confrontation, and (b) that he had an aggressive attitude toward Officer Wilson.

There is evidence that clearly contradicts (a)
Officer Wilson claimed multiple times under oath that after Michael Brown passed him, he recognized Michael brown as wearing the "Black T-Shirt" in which the radio dispatcher had described the suspect. Michael brown was in fact wearing a black t-shirt. But the radio dispatcher (according to recordings) had inaccurately said the suspect was wearing a WHITE t-shirt.

As far as (b), Dorian Johnson who was standing beside Michael Brown for the entire incident, claimed that Officer Wilson...after backing up the cruiser to within inches of the two (quickly enough to squeal the tires), cutting off their path, tried to open the door and struck Michael Brown and then pulled the door shut and reached out the window and grabbed Brown by the neck/collar. Johnson also claimed that the scuffle involved the officer trying to hold/wrestle Brown through the window vs. Brown attacking the officer.

There is contradictory evidence as to both whether the store robbery triggered the incident or who the aggressor was.

a reply to: snarky412

Wilson’s initial interview with the detective conflicts with information given in later testimony.

In his first interview with the detective, just hours after Brown’s death, Wilson didn’t claim to have any knowledge that Brown was suspected of stealing cigarillos from a nearby convenience store. The only mention of cigarillos he made to the detective was a recollection of the call about the theft that had come across his radio and that provided a description of the suspect.

Wilson also told the detective that Brown had passed something off to his friend before punching Wilson in the face. At the time, the detective said, Wilson didn’t know what the item was, referring to it only as “something.” In subsequent interviews and testimony, however, Wilson claimed that he knew Brown’s hands were full of cigarillos and that fact eventually led him to believe Brown may have been a suspect in the theft.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Black T-shirt, cigarillos

The black T-shirt that Wilson mentioned in both his police and grand jury interviews was key. After Brown reacted so strongly to Wilson's instruction to walk on the sidewalk, Wilson said he took a good look at him and saw he was carrying cigarillos, the item that had been reported to have been stolen just minutes earlier.

Wilson then looked in his mirror at Brown's friend Dorian Johnson and when he saw he was wearing a black T-shirt, he put two and two together.

"That's when it clicked for me because I now saw the cigarillos. I looked in my mirror, did a double-check that Johnson was wearing a black shirt -- these are the two from the stealing," he told the grand jury, echoing his police interview.

The call logs from the Ferguson police dispatch -- also released as part of the grand jury records -- do show that a "stealing in progress" was reported by the dispatcher.

But the suspect was mentioned as being a black male in a white shirt who took a whole box of Swisher brand cigarillos.

www.cnn.com...

The dispatcher got the description wrong..Brown was wearing a black t-shirt..and Wilson revised his story about recognizing Brown as a suspect due to the Black T-Shirt..before the dispatch recordings were available..."White T-shirt"

Wilson also didn't know Brown had Ciggarillos in his hand ...he added that bit also to his story later..

Why did Wilson need to pad his story to make it appear as if he was trying to apprehend suspects?
It brings into question the parts of his story where he claimed to report them as suspects and call for back-up..calls that no one ever heard, because his radio was purportedly on the wrong channel.

I "believe" that the first time Wilson realized Brown was a suspect in the strong-arm robbery at the convenience store was after he shot him and he constructed a story to accommodate. It sells better than whatever truth unfolded...which likely started with a young Cop with a big ego trying to be a tough guy and things spiraling out of control.

a reply to: Indigo5

I was being kind in my response. For some reason my post got posted after yours and you got all troll like. I tried to explain to YOU that my response wasn't a response to your post.

It seems that you are dense to the fact that I care nit of your views on this matter. My only point was my own towards the OPs point of view..I could care less on your previous posts before my intervention.

The black cop killing a white person is nothing racially motivated to get worked up about. At the same time, a white cop killing a black person is the same.

Only racist peoples will make it so. Only racist peoples will make this a big deal.

If you can't read between the lines.... Who is making the white cop killing a black guy a big deal... a group of racist punks, that's who.

So....where are the hords of white racists demanding action on this 'black on white' thang? ...YOU need to go look in the mirror. Majority of white people are not racist and therefore won't do similar things the people of color are doing right now..or have done to their town.

originally posted by: ChuckNasty
a reply to: Indigo5

I was being kind in my response. For some reason my post got posted after yours and you got all troll like. I tried to explain to YOU that my response wasn't a response to your post.

It seems that you are dense to the fact that I care nit of your views on this matter.

Fair enough and I stopped reading your post right there in kind..
Not sure why you continued to ramble on after that point?...Either way..good day to you.

Is that a white Alabama population being policed by a majority black force? Are there decades of perceived racial oppression against these whites by the majority black police and majority black governors and politicians?

If your answer is no to any of these scenarios, you've got the answer to your OP.

Its attitudes like this that lead to the increase in racism & racial discrimination.

originally posted by: ChuckNasty
a reply to: Indigo5
So....where are the hords of white racists demanding action on this 'black on white' thang? ...YOU need to go look in the mirror. Majority of white people are not racist and therefore won't do similar things the people of color are doing right now..or have done to their town.

White people will and do most definitely riot if they feel discriminated against or feel a injustice has taken place against them by another race of people.

Just look at the 2005 Cronulla riots. There had been a perceived perception that middle eastern people where taking over the beach and the media was fueling the idea (whether true or not) that middle eastern men where raping Aussie women, purely because they where white Australians. Then there was an incident where a group of middle eastern men beat up a white life guard at Cronulla beach and people just went crazy. Groups of 'white' people up to 5000 strong patrolled the beach for days beating up anyone who even resembled a middle eastern person.

Its just ridiculous (and incredibly racist) to some how claim only black people are capable of lashing out when they perceive a lack of justice from being unfairly targeted by another group. Its just human nature.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: ChuckNasty
a reply to: Indigo5
So....where are the hords of white racists demanding action on this 'black on white' thang? ...YOU need to go look in the mirror. Majority of white people are not racist and therefore won't do similar things the people of color are doing right now..or have done to their town.

White people will and do most definitely riot if they feel discriminated against or feel a injustice has taken place against them by another race of people.

Just look at the 2005 Cronulla riots. There had been a perceived perception that middle eastern people where taking over the beach and the media was fueling the idea (whether true or not) that middle eastern men where raping Aussie women, purely because they where white Australians. Then there was an incident where a group of middle eastern men beat up a white life guard at Cronulla beach and people just went crazy. Groups of 'white' people up to 5000 strong patrolled the beach for days beating up anyone who even resembled a middle eastern person.

Its just ridiculous (and incredibly racist) to some how claim only black people are capable of lashing out when they perceive a lack of justice from being unfairly targeted by another group. Its just human nature.

It is dumb to think how other countries act should be equal across said countries due to their common skin color.

Not sure if you realize this, but in America the black population has a 'tad' bit more reason to riot than the rest of the black world population.

As for the white American population IN America, they have little reason to riot due to the history of America.

If you can't distinguish between the different worldwide cultures and how they behave, good luck.

White people in America aren't racist as a whole. White people in America won't assume something is race related just from the color of a person's skin.

As for the black population in America, I can't say the same. I can only speak for what I know. I can also speak on what I have experienced.

That experience is that a racist person will find a reason, due to color, on why things happen as they did.

I don't see white Americans rioting because a black cop shoots an unarmed white guy. Those white people will have the common sense of looking into the circumstances of the incident instead of reacting out of conditioned responses.

Read between the lines.