Why are the elites winning? Look in a mirror!

a reply to: seeker1963

Nothing will happen to the pure benefit of the people so long as we tolerate our current social, political and economic arrangements. I'm all for limited centralized government, but local government ideally (for me) would be as democratic and participatory as possible. Representative government is just asking for corruption, but self-representation encourages responsibility. With our current technological level, there's no reason we couldn't create something new to attempt. It could be as revolutionary as the Republic was when the Romans invented it.

Our best bet would be to get behind something that disproportionately benefits corporations, but just so happens to benefit us as well. That might stand a chance of passing in our present environment, other than that, we're screwed. ;p

Anyway, thanks for discussion. Not a tea partier here either, and I too distrust centralized governments. Too much temptation for misappropriation when you are seated at the top.

a reply to: Nechash

When the great George Carlin was asked; what is the answer to how we change the world? His reply was simple: Massive bloodshed. I remember hearing this for the first time many years ago and it has stuck with me ever since, mainly because it has shown itself to me as being the only real answer. He, like I, didn't advocate it but when you look at how deep into the quicksand we have sunk it becomes obvious that this is the only real answer.

One of my favourite quotes of all time comes from H.L. Mencken and goes: “Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.”

Like I said, I don't advocate violence but that doesn't mean I don't get tempted...

a reply to: LiveForever8

I honestly think that's a mistake. People for the most part don't like violence and anyway the people I hope to attract in this lifetime certainly don't. I think with the US Military being as powerful and drone happy as it is, violence is off the table. Even the Russians didn't go up against them in the cold war and from what I can tell Russians as a people don't seem to back down from anything.

I fully appreciate the Gandhi method. Reel out enough rope and let the empire hang itself. The US Government only has one tool in its arsenal, and the more peaceful you are and the more you just stand there and let them hammer away at you, the more people accumulate to your side. Eventually, the real nature of the struggle reveals itself to be Us versus Them.

When you become violent, you justify violence and no one is willing to stand beside you.

a reply to: Nechash

At this point it doesn't matter what people like, in my opinion. It's people doing exactly what they liked, regardless of the consequences, that has got us in to this position in the first place. I think the big question to be asked is this; would the men and women of the US Military (or any military), given the orders, shoot the citizens of that particular nation? If the answer is 'yes' then maybe you are right. But it will serve us to remember that these very people, despite the best efforts of the Military to dehumanise them, are ordinary citizens, just like you. They have kids and family. Most of all, they have a conscious. Many of them are already on our side.

Gandhi did not win Indian Independence single handed. There was also a VERY militant side to the fight (yes,fight) for Independence, something that is forgotten. It's a moot point anyway because this is a completely different kettle of fish. This is the big one.

Like I said previously, I am not a violent person and do not necessarily advocate it. But I think if we want real change it isn't going to come by holding hands and standing still or waving funny signs at peaceful protests.

There is a reason these people drive around in armour-plated, bullet-proof Bentley's.

a reply to: Nechash

Absolutely true all of one percent of the time, the other ninety nine inherited from daddy and got a leg up, they tend to look after one another who make it that far as you don't get that far without being a member of the club.
In other word's you are actually 99 percent wrong.

Accepting responsibility and accountability for one's actions/decisions/choices is not a virtue for a lot of people these days.

Instant gratification has taught most people gluttony, greed, dissatisfaction, lack of empathy, and a lust for what they don't have... causing them to do whatever it takes to constantly fill the empty void. They become blinded to the world around them because their addictions cause tunnel vision.

The elite take full advantage of these weaknesses in others, forever dangling the proverbial carrot.

It's a sick-cycle carousel that most are unable to step off of... or unwilling to step off of because they like the way things are... or because it's just easier to follow the status quo.

So how do you heal a sick society ?
You can't.

The only way to fix such a mess is to rip the carpet out from under them.

And that day will come soon enough when the global economy implodes.

originally posted by: Nechash
I fully appreciate the Gandhi method. Reel out enough rope and let the empire hang itself. The US Government only has one tool in its arsenal, and the more peaceful you are and the more you just stand there and let them hammer away at you, the more people accumulate to your side. Eventually, the real nature of the struggle reveals itself to be Us versus Them.

When you become violent, you justify violence and no one is willing to stand beside you.

Quoted for truth!

How do you defeat the s̶y̶s̶t̶e̶m̶ "schoolyard bully" for good?

You join together and stand against him.

a reply to: Nechash
Necash

I do so enjoy reading your posts. They are full of bits and pieces of truthfulness and normally phrased in such a way as to allow a non-confrontational relationship with others in the thread. The thoughts are so abundant that choosing a point of entry in which to engage feels like being a kid in a candy store.

The simple fact is that the means of production have become so efficient that civilization no longer requires a 40 hour work week from its people. What is wrong with that? Can't we move down to a 30 or 20 hour work week, offer a bit more in wages and allow more people to have more disposable income and free time?

I came of age in the mid 1960's in a liberal setting and was on a course to a career in youth work and recreation. What you state above was already well known at that time. Numerous non-profit agencies such as the YMCA and various recreational programs were planning on helping to provide inexpensive activities, educational opportunities, and such for the up coming shift away from the 40 hour work week. Opps. There was even one dystopian episode of Twilight Zone that dealt with the negative side of downsizing due robotization. The question of what do we do with ourselves when we have all that we need has been considered now for longer than I can remember.

And what have we now, 50 years later? Tonnes of things to thrill and amuse. Not a society where the individual offers themselves to the happiness of others but rather a society which seeks to provide those thrill and amusements to others at a cost that keeps them enslaved. Big screen movies at 10 bucks a pop. Big TV screens that offer up inanity by the bushel-full. Video games of murder and mayhem played out big boxes that cost a bundle and little handheld boxes, that cost a bundle. Yes, we have found what to do with a populace with free time on their hands. Profit from it. Addict them and suck out their marrow. Opps, I'm venting. Sorry

There was also a book that I read in the mid 90s . It was called "The End of Work: The Decline of the Global Labor Force and the Dawn of the Post-Market Era" written by Jeremy Rifkin. In it he presents a bit of history on the declining work force. For instance, back at the end of the Civil War, slaves were offered plots of land, (40 acres and a mule) which didn't so much come about. But what did come about was jobs in the fields. In the south this was exemplified by cotton picking. This stability for the children of slaves lasted a generation or so until the invention of an automated harvester. When this machine became available, it put 49 out of 50 jobs in cotton picking out of work. That one of course was the guy who got to stay on and run the machine. Those children of ex-slaves had no work but guess what? The auto manufacturing industry was burgeoning up in Michigan with the advent of the assembly line and the great migration from the fields to Detroit came about. Then the assembly line jobs began to dwindle as the machines developed and the cycle continued.

But going way back and on a more personal level was my grandfathers story during the great depression. He was a dock worker and a moderate socialist. Because of the lack of work, a national program was put forth to share the burden of unemployment. As he told it to me, it was not a law but a program where those who were employed could cut their weekly hours by three or five hours and with the accumulated hours, the company could hire several more people with no extra payroll. During the hard times, some would have a little less, but no one would have nothing. The employees did this, working a little less, but the company he worked for did not hire the extra people. They just had the workers fill the orders in less time and then pocketed the difference. My grandfather complained to the company and was then fired. Good socialist he.

Anyway Necash, thank you for one more thoughtful thread and I hope to share your offerings again.

T

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Thank you for your kind words. I may not be truthful 100% of the time as I might not know what the truth is, but I do try to be honest as much as possible. My life's motto is "full disclosure, no surprises." It is how I would like others to treat me and it is how I try to treat others. I'm not truly a socialist, although I do appreciate much of what Marx wrote. I think the ultimate goal of a stateless society is admirable. Once all humans ascend to be Seraphim, maybe we can consider such a thing. ;p I am an economic mutualist; however. I think we should get together, pool our resources, build companies and run the capitalists out of business. If we had put as much effort into creating employee owned companies as we put into creating unions, we'd be living in an entirely different world right now.

a reply to: MoonBlossom

And what happens when we find ourselves looking into a mirror rather than another person?

i agree with how you feel. people are so quick to point the finger at the "elites", but seriously - whether good or bad, do people actually think that these people got there by being inactive or just talking about it?

no, they took action.

its like my father always said:
"you can blame someone for your problems all you want, but at the end of the day it comes down to the man in the mirror."

now the question is, do you accept your current situation like sheeple or do you stand out and DO something about what you believe in?

a reply to: Nechash

Honestly, I am happy to see this expressed on ATS. There is so much interesting discussion on this board, so many great minds, but as I see it the core of the problem is seldom confronted or deliberated upon. As a people we still have great power, but we lock it away with our minds. It's the republicans/democrats, TPTB, Lucifer, aliens, overpopulation, etc.

For me one thing cuts through all the insanity and that is the wisdom of natural systems and how energy is managed within them. That's my "Church". Except it's quieter, more subtle...and patient. So here is what my church preaches...

1. Life occupies niches. We invited our systemic problems by either creating a niche (dependency on cheap toys) or failing to close an existing one (we have basic needs, we allow distant power structures/food systems to provide for them). Even more interesting: we don't know what OUR niche is.
2. Stability is assured by local exchanges of energy/material and by how many beneficial connections can be created between local elements (smaller government, creating community in your neighborhoods/cities or via internet).
3. Pollution is underinvested waste (ie bags of leaves, aka fertility, being paid by us to be shipped off-site).

So it's obvious that not only is the culprit in the mirror but the observer doesn't even know who they are/should be and they instead let culture narrate their dreams, their patterns and their destiny.

To me it doesn't matter how exotic our technology gets, or which nation (team) I live in, or even how improbable a massive change towards local self-sufficiency is. The rules of natural systems reveal how sh*t gets done in this sector of the universe. It's worked for billions of years. Everything else is obfuscation, distraction, or entertainment.

If you look in the mirror and feel a responsibility for/to the problem then here are some sites that I believe can change our world:

Prince of Permaculture:
www.geofflawton.com...

Community of Permaculturists trying to live self-sufficient, non-backbreaking, creature comfort maintaining lives:
www.permies.com...

Recently on ATS (100 amazing how-to sites to teach yourself anything):
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Website with DIY plans for building just about anything:
www.instructables.com...

a reply to: Nechash

Why are you blaming the average Joe for letting the elite to win? We all came to the monopoly game late and the elite have all the best places on the board. Most people are just passing go and paying the penalty for landing on Boardwalk, Park place,electric company or don't collect $200 and go straight to jail. Sure there are exceptions and some make a few million but we are talking about the elite who are beyond wealthy. They control everything and are some many steps ahead. We are not privy to what goes on at that level so there is no way to combat them.
Knowledge is power and they have the knowledge and the power to do what they want.
So I look in the mirror and see someone who knows he can't change things and is content in knowing that fact.Lack of resources and knowledge prevent me from taking on these guys, who are so rich I can't even fathom how much money they have.
The golden rule = he who has all the gold makes the rules

a reply to: Nechash


Keep telling yourself like people have for thousands of years, that it is the fault of the everyday average citizen in the world why things are going wrong.

This is so laughable it is beyond belief.

A strategy exists alright, a strategy that is ENSURED to always go on, that has never been countered, and is ENFORCED by something that even these elites mostly do not understand.

Looking in the mirror, that is a good strategy indeed, but only if you have decided to do something about the HOW that things are this way, and I do not think most people are ALLOWED to even go there, by forces they cannot or will not ever even be able to see.

Something way bigger and stronger than you can imagine keeps things at a certain level on this planet, for a reason, they like it this way, they NEED IT THIS WAY.

Are you ready to prove your thoughts on this , to live out your life in this charade they call "NATURE" ?

Or break it wide open as many of us have decided, and actually SEE the potential, from ALL SIDES.....

a reply to: Nechash

What have you all signed?

That's the point.

yourstrawman.com...

Of course it's not as simple as that - the finger must point to every guilty party according to their part in this.

Where does it begin? I think it began even before Atlantis, or maybe around that era. The sins of Atlantis - we pay them by living in this hellish, fascist bureaucracy-reality until we have fully paid our karmic debts.

Still, part of the reason - a big part - is the ignorant masses. Only their ignorance makes the con possible. Humans have been duped into becoming 'persons', children of the province, 'citizens', 'corporate employees' (even those that do not work for a specific corporate, have become 'corporate employees') by signing

APPLICATIONS (to apply means to beg - you beg for privileges, and give up your rights effectively)
SUBMISSIONS (you submit to their will, and now they gain authority over you)
REGISTRATIONS (Regis means 'King'. Anything you register, becomes the property of the government, even children)

Teenagers are usually too much in a hurry to get a 'driver's license' and a car to actually read any motor & vehicle act, where it is actually very clear that if you don't call it a 'car' or the activity 'driving', you don't NEED a license. No one needs a license to do already lawful activities - what a ludicrous idea that you would need such a thing!

But people, like automatons, like drugged sheeple-drones, like some kind of half-asleep zombies, just can't WAIT to lose all their rights (or at least consent to not being able to use them), just to get some privileges, that can be taken away.

Just look for "Meet your Strawman" from youtube, you'll realize that it's really true, it's people's own fault for DOING THIS VOLUNTARILY.

At the same time, who forces the "elite" (who are NOT 'winning' in my opinion, they are digging their own grave, and I don't consider them 'elites' anyway, just some douches who have made some really evil choices and have bad attitudes and sick, megalomanic plans) to take advantage of people's stupidity? Why can't they just create peace and prosperity for all, instead of this artificial scarcity and misery and technological backwardness?

They are both to blame, the masses AND the so-called 'TPTB'.

People have the power. The power comes from the consent of the governed. People have given the consent, so it's their fault. Then again, there was never FULL DISCLOSURE as to what they were consenting to, so it's not valid. But the system acts as if it was valid, which is part of the problem.

So, people have given the power, voluntarily, to the PTB, by consenting to being governed by an insane legal system (instead of Common Law). They never TOOK it from the people, they just duped people into GIVING them into them. Instead of being like a bully, they were like a seductive secret agent.

But winning? I don't know. I think we are winning, because we also incarnated here voluntarily, full well knowing, what kind of a prison we were incarnating into. We benefit from this. Our karmic needs dictate that this is the optimal place and situation for us - yes, even the people in North Korea.

And what do you think THEIR karmic consequences will be from doing all this? Think of Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin, Churchill - multiplied by a few thousand, perhaps. It's going to be HELL to pay.

They might actually have to live on a planet and in a system like this, as the victim, instead of as the 'elite'.. just think about that.

They are definitely not 'winning'. Whatever that means. It's not really a race, although it's called 'a human race'.

a reply to: Nechash

First I have to commend you on the topic of your thread..

What can we do about it? Well.. Here's my 2cents worth..
What is it these DEVILS want..?

It certainly appears that they are slowly but surely eroding our freedoms.
Taxed & fined for anything & everything more registrations, permits etc.
It seems as if we are being slowly imprisoned and systematically disarmed..
Even our dogs aren't exempt with the compulsory neutering and chipping
and the banning of so-called dangerous breeds.

This on going law changing to benefit the few and taxing for profit will never end unless we make it end.
how long we wait will be up to us.

But in saying that I DON'T think hitting them head-on is an option.. (at least not yet).
The way I see it.. Is to do similarly to what the Romans did (& the Greeks before them)..
NON-COMPLIANCE.. In years gone by when situations similar occured the proletariats (working class)
used to walk out of the cities..
Parasites live & feed off the host.. WE ARE THE HOST.

EVERYBODY has to wake up!! EDUCATE your children, families, plant the seed. talk to anybody.. everybody.
We have been systematically divided, labelled & boxed.
With division.. Media has played the main role and we fall for it hook line & sinker.
Information is key.. The right information!

DO NOT PLAY INTO THE PUPPET MASTERS HANDS by being (senselessly) rebellious.

Try not to be the "consumer" it's our money and labour that feeds them whilst BINDING US.
Try to not wantonly buy what you or your kids do NOT need.
Alcohol, rubbish food, gadgets, presents etc.. Although nice "IN AN IDEAL WORLD" we don't HAVE an ideal world.

All of this has been made harder for us to achieve now days because of our fascination with the industrial & technical age which the majority of us are now dependant on.. (no accident there?).

GROW FOOD.. Though don't wait too long as G.E. will rob us of the ability to NATURALY (you can't patent something you didn't design) reproduce plants etc (Monopoly on Nature who woulda thunk it??).

In short physically fighting = more LAWs ... Educating ourselves & others = FREEDOM

Everyone's put some great ideas on this thread so far (sorry mines so long)
Keep talking.. no harm can come from that.. right?!