Paul - Tribe of Benjamin, Friend to the Herodians and Proud Pharasees

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

One might also notice Marcion, who was the greatest Heretic in Christian history was Pauls biggest fan...

The guy who wanted the bible NT to be Paul only...

Ironic?

a reply to: Akragon

People in power agreeing with Paul seems to be a running theme doesn't it? Not really a surprise though seeing as how one of the most powerful empires in history fully endorsed him by having their doctrines centered almost exclusively around his teachings and not Jesus'. Their history of violence goes to show they care nothing about Jesus or his words.

Romans 13 is the best example of how Paul catered to the needs of those in power and not the people underneath them. He teaches to submit to authorities because they are "God's servants" and to rebel against them is to bring judgement on themselves. How convenient for the authorities.

Paul never said you're works don't matter.

Galatians 5:18 says

"But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law."

Paul says in Galatians 5:17

"For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would."

Sure, he said that IF you are in the Spirit then you are not under the law, but The Flesh is against The Spirit. This is a very Gnostic teaching. Darkness vs Light, World vs Heaven, Flesh vs Spirit

He even says this, showing that he DID believe actions mattered:

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." - Galatians 5:19-21

a reply to: arpgme

He may not have directly said it but it is implied.

Romans 10
9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

No works required, only a profession of faith in Jesus' resurrection.

Romans 5
1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

No mention of works, only justification by faith.

Romans 3
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

The law (10 commandments) was an outline on how to do good works, if you strayed from it then you pay the price.

Paul taught faith over works, Jesus taught faith AND works.

ETA: Apparently he does directly say it.

Romans 4
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Notice how all of these verses are within a chapter of Romans, I believe the Romans usurped Jesus' message and changed it from works to faith. Paul was a Roman Pharisee who persecuted Christians before his "conversion" which also happens to be told three different says by the same author.

Everything points toward Paul being an antichrist in my opinion.

a reply to: arpgme

We are left to speculate as long as no representative is here to clarify 2000 years of ignorance. Speculation is all we have, separated by a gulf of poor communication, babeled language and the fleeting nature of a human's life. It is all designed to deceive us before we can possibly know.

originally posted by: arpgme
Paul never said you're works don't matter.

Galatians 5:18 says

"But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law."

Paul says in Galatians 5:17

"For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would."

Sure, he said that IF you are in the Spirit then you are not under the law, but The Flesh is against The Spirit. This is a very Gnostic teaching. Darkness vs Light, World vs Heaven, Flesh vs Spirit

He even says this, showing that he DID believe actions mattered:

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." - Galatians 5:19-21

Actually he said EXACTLY that...

What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


Straight up... One who does not work is still justified by his faith...

This says specifically that sins are ok... "they're covered"... as long as you believe

So according to Paul, you don't have to help others in need... Faith is all that's needed

The golden ticket to sin... and turn your back on those who need help... how very Christian, at least in my experiences

Jesus had lots to say about the type of person Paul is describing... None of which was good

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

He says if you believe in Jesus then you'll be saved, but he clarifying what he means by "believing in Jesus". He says "believing in Jesus" means not giving into the lusts of the flesh:

"But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof." - Romans 13:14

In Galatians he repeats this same message:

"This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." - Galatians 5:16

"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." - Galatians 5:24

a reply to: arpgme

He also says that the one who does not work but believes is saved. No need for good works, Jesus died for our sins, free pass! He says it pretty blatantly in Romans 4.

Yeah Paul has some good teachings on love (I assume that's why you hold onto him) but that's about it, everything else is fluff used to deceive people into believing in his newly made doctrine. All good liars throw truth into the mix, that's how they sell their lies so well.

Paul was an antichrist. His conversion is written three different ways by the same author, I don't think it could get any more obvious than that. He also contradicts Jesus on several occasions. Those points plus the ones in the OP should make it obvious.