QUESTION to ALL Atheists!

a reply to: Bisman

then i would ask how or why an omnipotent being could change his mind from 1 rule set to another.

I would ask him how I Adam (as we are after all descended from him) was able to play hide and seek from him in Eden. I mean, did he make himself mortal so he lost his omniscience? I always like to keep it simple for the jehovah/deimurge.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Or how he could regret an action (making man) when he is omniscient and would foresee its outcome. Of course then he killed all but 8 of them so I would say he is a little insecure. And isn't insecurity one of the trademarks of jealousy as well? For a perfect being he sure has some human character flaws.

a reply to: TechUnique

From your first post

I'm trying to understand the psychology of an adamant atheist.

then on page 9 you write

I don't need to know why you guys are atheists

You're losing the plot. I think its like another poster said...you're starting to have doubts. Then you say its all about reconsidering. Why do you need converts to validate your experience. Be happy...stop trying to save the world. Given enough time you will perhaps lead a few to the wrong path. What an awakening you will have when you realize that jehovah is not mankinds friend

a reply to: InhaleExhale

I really need to see one but will wait till I have only a few left so I can enter Australias Biggest Bogan

LOL aussie here. You reminded me why I dont think Jehovah is all that powerful. He would have eradicated from inception (like the movie INCEPTION) a show like Australias Biggest Bogan.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

And isn't insecurity one of the trademarks of jealousy as well?

The jealousy bit waswhat really sparked my curiosity off. I drifted away from christianity many years ago. 10 years later the internet came along. Then I knew jehovah was a bad being

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Um on what objective basis do you call him immoral? As an atheist you don't have one

Wow an atheist can have no morals. Lets see, all the naughty things he did in the OT. Why cant I judge him. Hes the personification of evil.

How about looking at the OT again...here you go

Yahweh = Satan. They have you worshiping evil. www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Um on what objective basis do you call him immoral? As an atheist you don't have one

Wow an atheist can have no morals. Lets see, all the naughty things he did in the OT. Why cant I judge him. Hes the personification of evil.

How about looking at the OT again...here you go

Yahweh = Satan. They have you worshiping evil. www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you believe God is everything, then yes. God is also Satan and Christ.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

I think Yahweh was judged guilty for crimes against humanity and thrown in deity prison by all the other deities to serve consecutive eternity sentences back to back.

That would explain why no one has seen him in so long.

You just know all the other deities must of had it with his crap especially since he was a late comer on the deity seen in human history.

a reply to: Grimpachi

I think Yahweh was judged guilty for crimes against humanity and thrown in deity prison by all the other deities

I agree but I'm still trying to wrap my head about the Baal/most high/el shaddai names of the OT. They're all part of the same deception. The more I study the more I think that we are creators who have forgotten the way home. Having overcome the hell/damnation fear, I was reading a thread about the moon being used as a recyclying of souls base. Thats even scarier. Endless reincarnations being manipulated to entice emotional responses so these "mother fuggers" could feed off us. Just as scary as the OT.

But on the bright side I've started looking at the idea that the way out of the matrix/trap is when you die....do not go into the tunnel with the light. Thats the trap

I've noticed some Christians in this thread attributing evil to Satan. Why must appalling actions like rape and murder, as well as the human propensity toward addictive behaviour (be it cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, etc) be attributed to a mythical bad dude? Humans make the decision to rape and kill, and if one puts a cigarette in one's mouth, a needle in a vein, or any other bad action (as decided by Christians) one can think of, this is nothing to do with mythical devils. If I choose to help someone, I don't attribute this to God either.

It seems to me to be a copout; oh, the Devil made me do it, so I don't need to take responsibility. If I were to follow the Christian faith, I can live a life of evil, but providing I accept Jesus before I die, my crimes get washed away. How convenient!

I think this image sums up the Christian faith quite well;

originally posted by: pheonix358
By using pure definitions, God is an extra terrestrial, an Alien if you will.

It is going to be damn hard to separate God from an alien.

200 years ago, a high powered torch may have been enough.

Now, I don't know. Materializing in a lounge room may just engender a Wow response from Sci Fi fans as they relate it to a transporter beam. Floating in the air may just be an anti gravity device and the same with walking on water.

Then God has to get passed the millions who would be looking for CGI or Holographic projectors.

The Holo Deck from Star Trek is hard to beat.

Even just 'knowing' could be viewed as advanced telepathy.

Right now, the vast majority of 'miracles' could be accomplished with modern technology.

Now after all those problems, we have to discern God from the anti-Christ and that in itself is a conundrum.

How do we poor fools know which is which.

It is going to be a hard sell.

A trip on a space ship would do it for me I think. But then he would be an Alien named God.

P

Right, I am with you. As far as a Abrahamic-esque God, I am agnostic.

As you were noting though, even if some being did materialize, or knew my thoughts, or whatever the "miracle," it doesn't prove any single religion. It could be deception by a being manipulating us. It could be some kind of advanced tech. It could be the being is some kind of demon. It could be it's an alien. It could be the being is some kind of yogi who has mastered the material realm. It could be hallucination. Etc.

To the op, a common mistake I see people making is that they maybe DO have what they perceive to be an experience of something beyond the ordinary, and therefore in reality just latch on to whatever religion their culture provides for them. For example, if I see some being, or experience a glimpse into a spiritual realm, or think God has saved me, it doesn't prove by any means that now ALL of Christian theology is correct, nor Islam, nor Hinduism.

All it might support is that there is a spiritual realm and possibly a higher power. Not hell, sin, Jesus, etc.

a reply to: TzarChasm

: yes, i did answer the "2nd premise" you presented. but then you went, "Blegh, not good enough for me." just because you biased doesnt make my answers invalid.

Well I am not saying Blegh because I am bias. I am saying Belgh because what your saying is not logically sound. I believe Humans were created because the human body has attributes about it that imply intelligence just like a book.

the same reason humans are believed by some to have been designed is what opens the floor to god having been designed and his designer having been designed

You are saying you believe God was created because he has attributes about Him that imply intelligence created Him. What attributes of the God of the Bible require him to have a creator? The question I just asked you is the second premise and you never answer it directly you just dodge or say something like" for the same reason you believe humans are created." The reason I believe humans were created doesn't apply to God...so thats why I say blegh your wrong lol.

yes please tell us how much you know about whats outside of the 4th dimension. im sure you have so much experience in that.

Again if time is the 4th dimension which it is, and eternity is the absence of time. That means the 4th dimension does not contain eternity, because eternity is the absence of it.

not necessarily. we dont know for sure what existed before the big bang. and neither do you.

Scientifically speaking your right we dont know what existed before the Big Bang but thats not what I said to you. I said we know that Matter Space and Time came into existence after the FIRST PLANCK TIME. After the first planck time is after the big bang and we do know what existed after the first planck time. We aren't going to get anywhere because you aren't even attempting to comprehend what I am saying to you.

have you ever met intelligent life that did not have this semiotic thingie?

Lol this question shows me you still don't understand what this semiotic thingie is even though I put it in the simplest terms possible. I'll answer your question with a question, Have you ever met intelligent life thats didn't have DNA?

a reply to: mOjOm

You just said as an atheist you don't have a moral code. Now you say they do. I don't understand what you're trying to say. Which is it??

Thats not what I said read what you quoted. I said Atheist have no OBJECTIVE BASIS for calling God evil. Atheist only have a subjective basis for calling God evil. Subjective is synonymous to Opinionated. Therefore calling something evil means absolutely nothing because its just your opinion there is no objective basis for which to prove your point. Now this is from an atheistic world view. This is not what I believe it is what an atheist is reduced to logically. I believe people can make objective moral claims the atheist has no reason for believing that.

Also, I didn't call God evil. I didn't mention God at all for that matter. All I said is that there is nothing about being an atheist that removes their ability to judge morality.

You might not have but our conversation started because you entered in the middle of a discussion I was having with tavi45. (When I said she in that other post I was referring to him/her it was really just a typo sorry for the confusion)

No they don't. Believe it or not people can act in ways that some would consider immoral yet they themselves do not see it as immoral.

Again objective morals mean it doesn't matter if your believe something is moral or immoral. OBjective means it it what it is and your beliefs don't matter. For example, Raping babies is wrong regardless of the worlds belief about raping babies. Even if the whole world thought raping babies was the most sacred thing in the universe objectively it would still be wrong. Subjectively it would be the most sacred thing in the world.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I don't believe in "objective morality". It only exists in the mind of the beholder. There is nothing objectively, cosmically immoral about the rape baby ducks. Rape is a natural occurring process. A supernova or a comet crashing into a planet teaming with life is neither immoral or moral. It just is.

The universe is neither immoral or moral.. It just is.

IF there is a prime mover, a creative force behind the universe, there is no guarantee that force is good, evil, immoral or moral.

a reply to: windword

I appreciate your honest I really do, but you realize accepting that world view you can never call God evil and it hold any weight. Your belief says there is no good and there is no evil things just are what they are. Therefore, you never have an objective basis for bringing any moral charge against someone, including God.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: BlackManINC

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I don't believe in "objective morality". It only exists in the mind of the beholder. There is nothing objectively, cosmically immoral about the rape baby ducks. Rape is a natural occurring process. A supernova or a comet crashing into a planet teaming with life is neither immoral or moral. It just is.

The universe is neither immoral or moral.. It just is.

IF there is a prime mover, a creative force behind the universe, there is no guarantee that force is good, evil, immoral or moral.

So if I raped you, your household pet and your wife, castrated you, cut your wife's uterus out, and fed your children to the fire, would you, in your mind consider this immoral? Since there is no objective morality, I take it the answer would be no.

there are many many people in the middle east who would approve of such methods. because their god says its okay.

morality appears to be in the eye of the beholder.

And we wonder why the middle east is always in such chaos. Look at the populace occupying that region and what they believe and you'll get an idea as to why it never has seen any peace or stability. I wouldn't want to be a Christian living in any Islamic state any more than I would an atheist run state like North Korea.

a reply to: TzarChasm

there are many many people in the middle east who would approve of such methods. because their god says its okay. morality appears to be in the eye of the beholder.

Again the definition of objective means it doesn't matter what people believe or think something is that way. Saying someone believes this is moral or immoral holds no weight on objective claims. My point is even I believed with all my heart that murdering people who don't think the same as me was moral that doesn't make it objectively moral, but it also doesn't mean that objective morality is not there.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Well I am not saying Blegh because I am bias. I am saying Belgh because what your saying is not logically sound. I believe Humans were created because the human body has attributes about it that imply intelligence just like a book.

so human intelligence warrants a creator but divine intelligence does not. you are telling me that a cell phone requires a designer but a super computer...well that just happens. no design necessary. what a steaming load of [censored].

You are saying you believe God was created because he has attributes about Him that imply intelligence created Him. What attributes of the God of the Bible require him to have a creator? The question I just asked you is the second premise and you never answer it directly you just dodge or say something like" for the same reason you believe humans are created." The reason I believe humans were created doesn't apply to God...so thats why I say blegh your wrong lol.

i already explained it above. your crappy logic grows wearying.

Again if time is the 4th dimension which it is, and eternity is the absence of time. That means the 4th dimension does not contain eternity, because eternity is the absence of it.

hahahahahahahahaha...time is not spatial. space is not time. you arent very good at pretending to know this stuff.

start at 6 minutes for relevant info. or just ignore it like you always do.

Scientifically speaking your right we dont know what existed before the Big Bang but thats not what I said to you. I said we know that Matter Space and Time came into existence after the FIRST PLANCK TIME. After the first planck time is after the big bang and we do know what existed after the first planck time. We aren't going to get anywhere because you aren't even attempting to comprehend what I am saying to you.

the irony. feel it. FEEL IT.

Lol this question shows me you still don't understand what this semiotic thingie is even though I put it in the simplest terms possible. I'll answer your question with a question, Have you ever met intelligent life thats didn't have DNA?

nope. then again, im beginning to question if i have ever met intelligent life at all. MORK! TAKE ME WITH YOU...!

and with that, im done here. keep your pseudo-science and flatout bullcrap, id hate to leave you bereft.

ALSO: looks like the OP crawled back into the shadows. surprise surprise. i guess that means atheists win. dont celebrate too hard guys...