I'm seriously thinking of joining the Air Force.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Yeah I hear ya. Unfortunately you cannot disregard orders because you think they're unlawful. They'll make sure they're lawful and law is always on their side. I remember when it was announced we would be waging war in Iraq and I totally disagreed with it but I still had to do my job and support a war that made no sense to me.

The wars in the ME aren't going anywhere. Iraq and Syria are on the drawing board and the same agenda will go on no matter what administration is in office.

a reply to: Swills

if you do in fact "get it" then you would know we Marines dont have any doctors in our ranks. we use navy corpsmen (whom i have great respect for). for the OP you are choosing the right branch. the Airforce has the best WIIFM's (whats in it for me?) i remember sleeping in the dirt for three weeks with my platoon when these AF intel officers came to our FOB and asked where their beds were. to conclude i do not see all airman as those silverspooned boot officers but when it comes down to it sometimes i wish i had a bed or heat or AC or hot chow or parts for our trucks or whatever luxury they had and we didnt.

a reply to: crustyjuggler27

Oh I get it, but sorry I was unaware that Marines don't have doctors.

a reply to: paranormal78

Both my grandfathers were in the military during the Second World War, and my father worked for the Ministry of Defence when I was a kid.

So you would think that there would be some damned good reasons for me to have joined a military outfit at some point. I never did though, and there is one reason which stands out above all the others. Forget the legality of war, forget the service to your country aspect for a moment, and hear me out.

If what one wants, is for a group of people to be capable of defending their nation, then there are many things that they do NOT need to be able to do. The most crucial of these is "taking orders". There exists on this planet, no human being who is fit to command me, or anyone else for that matter. We have the right to self determination, and if a nation cannot be defended without those who aspire to do so, giving up their free will, their right to self determination, then it is an enterprise not worth a damn.

If training for war was exclusively about learning how to operate a barrage of weapons, how to move with stealth and care, how to maximise ones individual lethality toward the enemy, how to analyse tactical situations without reference to a chain of command, how to be as dangerous individually, as forty or fifty enemy units, then that would be fair and fine enough. But no, it's all about handing over your free will to some bastard you probably should not trust worth a damn, who gets his orders from someone who should probably be executed with a claw hammer for treason, or to put it plainly, a politician. All so that chain of command, leading back to that politician and whomever pays him, can use you to do its dirty work.

The fact is that there has not been a military threat, worthy of mobilising a western military infrastructure against, since Hitlers mob got their faces handed to them by the Allied forces many years ago. There certainly has not been a threat worth giving up ones right to determine ones own fate, ones own actions for.

I fail to understand how people think that giving up their own freedom, will improve the level of freedom and security afforded to their peers. I am all for sticking a big lump of cold steel, or for that matter hot lead, inside of anyone who poses a genuine threat to my nation, but I personally believe that there is no threat unless there are bombers in the sky, ships and subs in our waters, and tank battalions prowling the western seaboard of continental Europe. I refuse to accept terrorism as a threat which can be countered by massed military engagement of any kind, and believe that it is a threat which only shadow war can be effective against. No drones, no missiles, no armoured vehicles, just blades and silenced pistols, carried by nameless and deniable operators, with no families, no fingerprints, and no mercy.

So here's the thing. When there is a threat, a military threat, a threat of another nation capable of projecting actual war onto your nation, by way of a well equipped, well trained, and powerful military machinery of its own (not a rag tag bunch of borderline psychotics with delusions of grandeur) then by all means, consider military service. Till then, if all there is to worry about is dirty bombs, soft target attacks, and people getting their heads cut off, as horrible as those things are, they are better dealt with by those who are not trained for war, but for espionage and assassination.

Thank all of you for your replies (the useful ones anyway lol) I plan on joining in the summer or the fall. What would be a recommended season to enlist? I want to go when the weather is neutral (mostly clear with 68F to 80F temperatures) When are recruits usually sent to boot camp?

And please stop spewing anti military dribble. I don't really plan on being a field troop or anything like that & I really don't want any more anti military coments when I'm seirious about joining so please don't bother. I plan on being a computer technician or something like that so odds are I won't be killing anyone.

I went through basic during the winter, and graduated at the beginning of 2005. I scored in the high 90's on my ASVAB, and the higher you score the more AFSC's/jobs will be open to you, and was an honor graduate from BMT, which is around the top 10%. To graduate with honors you have to score really high on your written tests, and have decent physical training scores. It is extremely easy, and my advice would be to focus on the written material, as that is why most people don't get it. You want to get it because you will have an extra ribbon to wear on your uniform. I do not know how useful my advice will be, mainly because BMT has changed since I went through it. They've extended it by two weeks, for one thing. There is probably a lot more field training than when I went through, and there will be more of an emphasis on your service rifle.

My advice is to learn your chain of command/ranks before going to basic. And learn who is who in terms of the chain of command. Start at the commander in chief and work your way down. Even learn who is in charge of Lackland at that time. They'll give you some papers and stuff that you are supposed to study whenever you are just standing around in formation, and this is basically what it is that you're supposed to learn. Then, depending on your instructor, recruits will be randomly picked out and asked questions over this material. I would advise you to get into decent physical shape before going, but you don't have to be a super-athlete or anything. Just make sure you can run. And work on your back strength a little bit. When you've been there a few days your flight will be marched down to get all your uniforms and whatnot, and all this stuff will go into your duffel bag, and it is pretty heavy.

Learn your reporting statement, which you have to use ALWAYS when talking to anyone who is not a trainee like you. This stuff will change once you leave basic. For instance, you have to refer to your sergeant and everyone else as "sir or ma'am," but once you leave basic you will refer to everyone by their rank. For instance you would call your drill instructor "sir" during basic, but would refer to someone of the same rank as "technical sergeant so and so" after basic, at tech school. And you will stand at attention for NCO's during basic, but will stand at parade rest for these ranks during tech school, only standing at attention for officers.

I was told about the reporting statement before I went in, but what they didn't tell me is that whenever you are told to do something you have to say "proceeding sir/ma'am." That was just as important as the reporting statement when I went through basic. The fact that it was a really cold winter when I was in BMT made it horrible. That was the worst, and it was below freezing on some days, and apparently they cannot take you outdoors at those temps. I remember it was just above freezing when I had to go into the gas chamber. The gas chamber is not that bad to be honest, or at least it wasn't for me. It is worse when you come out than when you're in it. You will put a chemical suit on over your BDU's, or now I think they have a new uniform, and you will put your gas mask on and a hood over it, and go in. They will tell you to take it off, and then they will ask you a random question that you have to answer. They don't want you to panic, and you cannot run out of the chamber when you're done. I moved too fast when I was leaving and had to stay there even longer, lol. So exit as calmly as possible, which goes against what your body wants to do.

Your nasal passages will be cleaned out thoroughly after that as well, which is a plus. Field training was horrible in the cold, but I suppose the heat could have been worse had it been a hot summer that I had went instead. Umm let's see, what else? The truth is that they will teach you everything you need to know, but it helps to know things beforehand just so you don't end up getting singled out. I would advise you never to be the first and never to be the last. Don't do anything to single yourself out. It is almost as if your body will shut down in a way, mainly to deal with the stressful environment. Or rather your mind will shut down. You will perform normally, but you will be acting on a different level of consciousness for a while...if that makes sense. This is what I did anyway, and it was hard for me to recall specific details after the fact because of this. It is just a system shock to have people yelling all the time, and having to run everywhere and whatnot. So I say keep a low profile so you don't get yelled out more than usual.

One thing that might serve you to learn beforehand is making a bed. Making those stupid corners perfectly was a daily hassle, and then you have to align the fold at the top of the blanket with all the other blankets for all the other beds, all the way down. I mean we had freaking string out to line these up. And if you have to clean the latrines, the bathroom, you have got to pick up every speck of dust off of the floor. What we did was turn off all the lights in the bathroom, and turn a flashlight on and place it on the floor. Then get down and look along the floor and you can see anything that needs picking up. There are other duties, and everyone will be assigned to do something within the dorms/barracks. I was with the latrine group, and if you can get this then do it. I do not think you can take an electric razor. I actually learned to dry shave during basic, although I didn't have a really thick beard or anything, simply to save time. Everyone is trying to crowd around a limited number of mirrors, and you only have so many minutes to shave, get dressed, etc, and be ready to fall out. You are moving fast all the time, everywhere you go. "Hurry up and wait," as they say. It is true.

The one thing that is constantly present is HUNGER. All the time. I dreamt of food at night. The food is not bad, but you are rushed to eat. I am pretty sure that they have to give you more time than we got, or they have to let you eat, but you do not want to be the last guy in the mess hall. And you cannot talk to other recruits most of the time. Especially in the cafeteria. You have to go down the line in the mess hall with your hands flat down on your tray, looking straight ahead. And when you exit the mess hall you've got to literally march, and do a flanking turn at the corners, and you will be scrutinized by an instructor every single time. Everyone exits as they finish, and you will likely be by yourself, where you will fall in outside to wait for everyone else. I would wait until I saw some other people leaving, and then I would leave behind them, because as I said, don't single yourself out whenever possible. I still got singled out a few times, as it is inevitable, and it is not the end of the world. It is just stressful at the time. There are a bunch of other little things that I could get into, and if you have any questions you can message me, but those are the things that come to mind off the top of my head.

a reply to: paranormal78

Jiggy reminded me of a couple things. Learn your reporting statement. And always have your 341's with you.

I am reminded of a funny story. Our TI liked to holler (as they all do) and he was very good at it. He liked to tell you that you were an "un disciplined airman" while berating you. There was one guy, Reins, who was having a particular hard time adapting. We always had the fear of being "recycled", which is sent back a few weeks to repeat some training. (that means you will be at basic longer) So one day the TI screams at Reins to "give him three words" Reins yells, "Sir, un disciplined airman!" and the TI yells, "NO!, pack your sh!t!". And he was sent back three weeks.

We all felt bad for him, but that was funny as hell. If something like that happens, do your best not to laugh out loud.

a reply to: Swills

Look, I was a 27D in the Army--a paralegal--and I know for a fact that your argument against not following orders if you know them to be unlawful is wrong. Sure, there are some units with a chain of command that suck and do things illegally, but it always comes out in the end, and you CAN and WILL have charges preferred against you if you do something illegal. The I-was-just-following-orders defense doesn't fly in a military court--hell, you can't even get an article 15 for disobeying an illegal order. The specifications of Articles 90 and 92 of the MCM (Manual for Courts-Martial) state that the orders have to be lawful for the refusal to be in violation.

But, we're going off on a major tangent, here; let's not derail the OP's discussion.

originally posted by: network dude
We all felt bad for him, but that was funny as hell. If something like that happens, do your best not to laugh out loud.

Ah, yes...I remember a few "good-training" moments we all got to share because of someone laughing while in formation. Of course, getting in trouble isn't always a bad thing--by the time I finished my AIT a did my final PT test, I did 113 push-ups in the two-minute time. And that was with a few of them not counting.

If you land a computer job, OP, never get caught swinging a mouse around by the chord...or whistling while accidentally walking into a room where a breifing is being given...or get caught impersonating a drill sergeant with him right behind you...or taking your picture with their hat on...

It's funny how the stupidest sh*t can get you 15 minutes of straight push-ups...