Nazis and the Pope!

As we all know, thorought WWII, many innocent people of Jewish faith were tortured in Hitler's concentration camps. We like to think, "If only we could have stopped it sooner."

Well. It would have been very nice for it to end sooner. Very nice indeed. This is where the Pope comes in, and religion as a whole. For the most part, the German population during the war was overwhelmingly Christian. More devoted to the Pope than they were to Hitler. If only the Pope had declared what Hitler was doing was horrible, then his crusades would have lost all of their support, and his empire would have fallen beneath him.

Why didn't the Pope do this? He must have known that saying what Hitler was doing was wrong would have atleast some effect! Was he worried about his own hide? Now, I'm not Christian anymore, and I was never Roman Catholic, but I am pretty sure that you should try to save millions of innocent lives when you get the chance, even if you put yourself in danger. No, the reason he really did it, he wanted the Jews dead. Plain and simple. Devout Christians like him and many others still probably blamed them for the persecution of their lord.

This is just an example of why religion is blinding, corrupt, and altogether a waste of time. I apologize if a post on this has already been filed, I am not the most skilled with the Bollean engine present on this site.

And with that, I bid you all adieu.

Well the Jews did KILL JC not the Romans. It was the jews that wanted him arrested and killed. Punches Pilot did everything he could to save Jesus. Punches Pilot gave them a choice: set a murderer free or set a man who has preached nothing but love and the rabis were throwing money at the jews to say barabas.

Should a would a could a. Im sure alot of people here could have done something to prevent something bad from happenin. But i bet alot of them didnt. Besides the pope isnt that powerful.

True, the Pope doesn't have much authority now, but back during WWII and earlier periods, he was all the rage. He defintly had enough power to atleast get heard and for the Germans to think about what they were doing. I think I remember something between him and JFK, I will search for it and get back to you.

The majority of Germans were, and are, Protestant, about 65% in Weimer Germany, and about 34% were Catholic. The two main Protestant churches were Lutheran and Reformed, who both thought of themselves as state sponsored churches. So they weren't likely to do anything to usurp the state, although some individuals within these churches did. Both churches also had a history of anti-semitism.

As for the Catholic Church.... there had been an "away from Rome" movement for some time in Germany and Austria, so many Catholics put more emphasis on what there local Priests said, than on what was said in the Vatican. And you must remember, just because you are Catholic doesn't mean you can't also be a German Nationalist.... afterall many Catholics fought in the First World War

Originally posted by Volksgeist
The majority of Germans were, and are, Protestant

Sorry to correct you, that's wrong.
It's 34% for both, 3.7% muslim and the rest is can be sorted as "other".

Originally posted by Croat56
Well the Jews did KILL JC not the Romans. It was the jews that wanted him arrested and killed.

Seeing as it was one of the least documented places on earth at the time am I to assume you dont have evidence of this thoery?

I on the other hand believe that if a person called Jesus was killed there it was most likey be because he was considered a threat to the empire.
Afterall it was pretty standard Roman procedure to eliminate any political threats in its empire that could 'rally' the people. Seeing as Judea was also the most hectic place in the empire I would assume the Romans there would have had no objections to disposing of trouble makers.
This to me would seem the most logical conclusion.

[edit on 11-12-2004 by Johnny Redburn]

I was not aware that most of the catholic Germans during that time period had moved away from the Vatican. I had thought that that early in the century, the Vatican still had a great amount of power over most catholics. Guess not.

The Pope still sucks though.

Originally posted by Kompaktor
True, the Pope doesn't have much authority now, but back during WWII and earlier periods, he was all the rage. He defintly had enough power to atleast get heard and for the Germans to think about what they were doing. I think I remember something between him and JFK, I will search for it and get back to you.

the cathoilc curch took a non intervention stance duirng WWII. the thing with JFK is that people were kinda worried that sence kenedy was a roman catholic that hed listen to the pope on every little issue.

Pius XII has been both condemned and lauded for his actions during World War II.

Throughout the Holocaust, Pius XII was consistently besieged with pleas for help on behalf of the Jews.

In the spring of 1940, the Chief Rabbi of Palestine, Isaac Herzog, asked the papal Secretary of State, Cardinal Luigi Maglione to intercede to keep Jews in Spain from being deported to Germany. He later made a similar request for Jews in Lithuania. The papacy did nothing ...

The Pope finally gave a reason for his consistent refusals to make a public statement in December 1942 ... the papacy was "unable to denounce publicly particular atrocities."
One reason for this position was that the staunchly anti-communist Pope felt he could not denounce the Nazis without including the Communists; therefore, Pius XII would only condemn general atrocities.

Pope Pius XII and the Holocaust

The voice of Pius XII is a lonely voice in the silence and darkness enveloping Europe this Christmas ... He is about the only ruler left on the Continent of Europe who dares to raise his voice at all.
Editorial, The New York Times, Dec. 25, 1941

Blaming the Wartime Pope

Still, Pius XII�s critics insist that if he had confronted Hitler directly - publicly excommunicating him and all who supported him - that German Catholics might have risen up in revolt. That is the accusation of the New York Times of March 18. 1998: "The Pope did not encourage Catholics to defy Nazis� orders." The idea that the Pope could bring about massive German defiance is completely implausible.

Pope Pius XII


[edit on 12-12-2004 by Ravenna]

Thanks for all those great sources Ravenna. Too busy (lazy) to find any myself.

Even if he had a non-intervention stance during the war Ivan, he should have acted later on, communism or not. Look at America. WWII broke out, and we didn't want to join in, but we eventually did. After such atrocities, you would think the leader of a religion based on kindness and good-samaritinishness, he would have tried to do something.

Ciao

Hi,

Originally posted by Kompaktor
For the most part, the German population during the war was overwhelmingly Christian. More devoted to the Pope than they were to Hitler.

I generally agree with you but be careful of one thing .Please don't confuse Christian with Catholic, or for that matter Protestant , Lutheran , Reformed, etc. A Christian is anyone who believes in Jesus Christ and loves others, even their enemies. So very few Germans were Christians during WWII. A good example of a German Christian would be Shindler who helped thousands of Jews evade the Nazi concentration camps.


I do agree that Pope Pius[the so-called Angelic Pope ] did not lift a finger to help the Jewish people. Infact the reverse. Shame on him.



God Bless you friend,

[edit on 14-12-2004 by Logician]

Yes, there are many sects of Christianity. I guess I was just thinking that the Pope, as a head for one of the main divisions of Christianity, would also have an affect on the other sections, enough to make the German populace realize what they were doing was wrong, and give them reason to take down Hitler.

However, after talking to a few Christians, none of them Catholic, I found out that the pope doesn't affect them at all. Something to be worried about? I'm not sure. It was nice when the pope was kind of a leader for Christianity, and not just Catholicism. But now there are so many different teachings of the Bible, it is hard to live in one of the most conservative states in the Union and be an athiest.

Hey. I haven't done much research, but here's a link talking about hitler's connection with the Roman catholic church. www.reformation.org...

Originally posted by Kompaktor
Yes, there are many sects of Christianity. I guess I was just thinking that the Pope, as a head for one of the main divisions of Christianity, would also have an affect on the other sections, enough to make the German populace realize what they were doing was wrong, and give them reason to take down Hitler.

And, the Pope was supposed to advocate local insurrections and issue Papal Equivilents of fatwas to impeach or remove Hitler or Nazi regime? Alas, the world frowns upon that behavior, then & now!

.... It was nice when the pope was kind of a leader for Christianity, and not just Catholicism. But now there are so many different teachings of the Bible, .......

recall the adage; power corrupts...absolute power corrupts absolutely!
recall when the papal states were once the entire civilized world??
there occurred the infamous INQUISITION !!

#9, thats the one i tend to follow, (many different teachings of bible)

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