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What is a feminist, what is feminism, and what is a 'feminazi'? Do you know what they are?
page: 25share:
originally posted by: nenothtu
originally posted by: amazing
My wife gets paid less than the guys she works with, though she's smarter and does more work. That's the problem.
I'm not sure whether to ask "why do you let your wife take that kind of abuse" or "why does your wife put up with such nonsense", so I guess I'll ask neither.
I'll just say that my wife, even as one of those "oppressed Muslim women" didn't, so I'm not quite sure why an "enlightened western woman" would.
Life gets so strange, some times.
Because often people put themselves in a position where they lose control.
Such as, you put your kid in an expensive private school. You need the job to pay for this extra expense, and are afraid if you make waves demanding equal pay, you will lose your job.
Yes, it is your own fault. You are responsible for your priorities.
I can say this now after living for close to 70 years and looking back.
a reply to: Annee
Ah. It's a case of PPP then.
People realize that men are capable of PPP too, right? I'm very good at it - I've elevated it to an art form.
I'm still not seeing a gender issue, especially in light of the fact that it's not just women who fail to exercise the laws that are given to them. If a person (of either gender) insists on a law, and that law is given them, and then they fail to exercise it... what more can the law do?
Is it really still proper, in such cases, to continue sitting back and blaming it on someone else?
Ah. It's a case of PPP then.
People realize that men are capable of PPP too, right? I'm very good at it - I've elevated it to an art form.
I'm still not seeing a gender issue, especially in light of the fact that it's not just women who fail to exercise the laws that are given to them. If a person (of either gender) insists on a law, and that law is given them, and then they fail to exercise it... what more can the law do?
Is it really still proper, in such cases, to continue sitting back and blaming it on someone else?
edit on 2014/11/19 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: nenothtu
a reply to: Annee
Ah. It's a case of PPP then.
People realize that men are capable of PPP too, right?
I'm still not seeing a gender issue, especially in light of the fact that it's not just women who fail to exercise the laws that are given to them. If a person (of either gender) insists on a law, and that law is given them, and then they fail to exercise it... what more can the law do?
Is it really still proper, in such cases, to continue sitting back and blaming it on someone else?
Dude
Whether we agree or not, I do recognize intelligence that deserves respect. I mean you
Only by years and experience did I learn we are all responsible for our choices.
You don't just fall into an experience, then blame that experience for your downfall. It's your fault and you're responsibility.
a reply to: Tangerine
Well, having studied Nazis in a lot of depth when I was younger, it was only natural that I would recognize the behaviors and agree with the fat boy that began calling the radical fringe feminists that very term. The attitude of "You will agree with our views 100% or you will be vilely attacked and shunned" is, in a word, Nazi.
Self-loathing is what those crazy women suffer from, not me. They are the ones being mean to people who happen to hold a different view. They can keep their views of men and they can continue to play the false role of victim---it's no skin off my nose. But their issues today are issues that will never be solved by laws being passed. The women of the '50s and '60s got the legal problems sorted out. Today's bunch are playing the perpetual victim and teaching other women to do the same instead of "rearing up on their hind legs and fighting," as my Grandpa used to say.
But if you want to continue to see the world in black and white, that's okay with me too. I'll be enjoying all the wonderful colors, shades and hues out here in the world where I live. Meanwhile, I'm also conducting covert missions in which I teach young ladies to find the power within themselves to be the woman they want to be---no matter their choice of lifestyle. I always found it perplexing that after all those years of lobbying for "choice" in reproductive matters it was damned hypocritical that they don't believe in "choice" when it comes to the issue of working at home or working for a paycheck. They simply abandoned the idea of nurturing a family for the mighty dollar and bought into the belief that you can hire people to raise your children who will do a better job of it.
I spent six weeks of my life with a bunch of them. Have you ever actually lived and worked with a passel of them for any extended period of time? Seriously. They are demented and while it is sad, I didn't take them to raise. I did spend six weeks trying to reason with them to almost no avail. It is impossible to reason with someone who is living decades in the past. My attempts to find out exactly what specific issues they wanted to address were met with blank stares or "Equality" or "We want men to quit raping women." My method of attacking any problem has always been to identify the problem and from there to go on to identifying possible solutions. However, with this bunch, the part of identifying and implementing possible problem-solving behaviors was completely thrown out the door. There was no creativity, no sense of discernment about differences between individuals, instead they were more like mind-numbed robots parroting what they had heard/read the women of the '60s say/write with no recognition that things had changed in 40 years.
Here's how bad the cognitive dissonance was: the field school that I ran and of which they were a part had 3 co-directors, one male and two females, all PhDs and all three with 20 or more years experience. I, a female, was the crew chief of a crew that 60% female and yet those 5 women sat there and told me that because anthropology was a traditionally male-dominated profession, they would never be able to advance in their careers as archaeologists because of the male domination. Yeah, that made my head sideways for a few days. Explaining to them that archaeology had no separate pay scales for females did no good whatsoever. They contended that they should be paid above what males were paid to "make up for past wrongs against women." That was "fair" in their world because in their world, "Males have never been forced to do things they didn't want to do." Fancy that! Being drafted was the thing every man wanted before the draft was abolished.
In fact their "fight" was about as silly as keeping up the "fight against the draft" after it was abolished by law.
In their world women had only been able to own property "for a few decades" and yet I have deeds going back to 1853 with my female ancestors owning property. Then, there was the silly stuff about women not being able to obtain "credit" and yet I'd had credit accounts since I was 16 years old (1970)---in my name, no male signature required. Now I could have gotten all bitter and disgruntled when my first husband left (at my request) and took all the money we had in the bank (not my request) and left me with a huge pile of credit card debt. But in the end, I had signed that credit card application saying I would be responsible so it was my ignorance that left me in that situation. I was totally ignorant of the fact that the man I had married cared far more about a bass boat than any wife or child---when I signed that application at the beginning of the marriage.
Honestly, it is this New Age feminist attitude that has driven out all the tolerant feminists. I've noticed some refer to a Third Wave movement, so perhaps that is what they've become. The whole growth and development of the movement seems to parallel the growth, development and schisms within the Conservation/Environmental movements. The radical, fringe, control freaks got the upper hand and are now the focus of the media. ELF gets far better rating than Smokey Bear and Woodsy Owl.
I have no idea what goes on in the drug-addled brain of the talking head but he coined a term that, while not terribly clever or creative, rang bells in lots of heads because it was descriptive. Just proves that even blind hogs find nuts from time to time.
But you are not free to put me in his "camp" because I'm in MY camp, I've never even SEEN his "camp" and the few times I've been subjected to him on radio, I've never felt the urge to run and find his "camp."
In MY camp we believe in the woman Helen Reddy introduced to the world. She sang:
"I am woman watch me grow
See me standing toe to toe
As I spread my lovin' arms across the land
But I'm still an embryo
With a long, long way to go
Until I make my brother understand
Read more: Helen Reddy - I Am Woman Lyrics | MetroLyrics
In my camp we believe that men can be brought to understanding without verbal, mental or physical abuse if we spread those loving arms.
Well, having studied Nazis in a lot of depth when I was younger, it was only natural that I would recognize the behaviors and agree with the fat boy that began calling the radical fringe feminists that very term. The attitude of "You will agree with our views 100% or you will be vilely attacked and shunned" is, in a word, Nazi.
Self-loathing is what those crazy women suffer from, not me. They are the ones being mean to people who happen to hold a different view. They can keep their views of men and they can continue to play the false role of victim---it's no skin off my nose. But their issues today are issues that will never be solved by laws being passed. The women of the '50s and '60s got the legal problems sorted out. Today's bunch are playing the perpetual victim and teaching other women to do the same instead of "rearing up on their hind legs and fighting," as my Grandpa used to say.
But if you want to continue to see the world in black and white, that's okay with me too. I'll be enjoying all the wonderful colors, shades and hues out here in the world where I live. Meanwhile, I'm also conducting covert missions in which I teach young ladies to find the power within themselves to be the woman they want to be---no matter their choice of lifestyle. I always found it perplexing that after all those years of lobbying for "choice" in reproductive matters it was damned hypocritical that they don't believe in "choice" when it comes to the issue of working at home or working for a paycheck. They simply abandoned the idea of nurturing a family for the mighty dollar and bought into the belief that you can hire people to raise your children who will do a better job of it.
I spent six weeks of my life with a bunch of them. Have you ever actually lived and worked with a passel of them for any extended period of time? Seriously. They are demented and while it is sad, I didn't take them to raise. I did spend six weeks trying to reason with them to almost no avail. It is impossible to reason with someone who is living decades in the past. My attempts to find out exactly what specific issues they wanted to address were met with blank stares or "Equality" or "We want men to quit raping women." My method of attacking any problem has always been to identify the problem and from there to go on to identifying possible solutions. However, with this bunch, the part of identifying and implementing possible problem-solving behaviors was completely thrown out the door. There was no creativity, no sense of discernment about differences between individuals, instead they were more like mind-numbed robots parroting what they had heard/read the women of the '60s say/write with no recognition that things had changed in 40 years.
Here's how bad the cognitive dissonance was: the field school that I ran and of which they were a part had 3 co-directors, one male and two females, all PhDs and all three with 20 or more years experience. I, a female, was the crew chief of a crew that 60% female and yet those 5 women sat there and told me that because anthropology was a traditionally male-dominated profession, they would never be able to advance in their careers as archaeologists because of the male domination. Yeah, that made my head sideways for a few days. Explaining to them that archaeology had no separate pay scales for females did no good whatsoever. They contended that they should be paid above what males were paid to "make up for past wrongs against women." That was "fair" in their world because in their world, "Males have never been forced to do things they didn't want to do." Fancy that! Being drafted was the thing every man wanted before the draft was abolished.
In fact their "fight" was about as silly as keeping up the "fight against the draft" after it was abolished by law.
In their world women had only been able to own property "for a few decades" and yet I have deeds going back to 1853 with my female ancestors owning property. Then, there was the silly stuff about women not being able to obtain "credit" and yet I'd had credit accounts since I was 16 years old (1970)---in my name, no male signature required. Now I could have gotten all bitter and disgruntled when my first husband left (at my request) and took all the money we had in the bank (not my request) and left me with a huge pile of credit card debt. But in the end, I had signed that credit card application saying I would be responsible so it was my ignorance that left me in that situation. I was totally ignorant of the fact that the man I had married cared far more about a bass boat than any wife or child---when I signed that application at the beginning of the marriage.
Honestly, it is this New Age feminist attitude that has driven out all the tolerant feminists. I've noticed some refer to a Third Wave movement, so perhaps that is what they've become. The whole growth and development of the movement seems to parallel the growth, development and schisms within the Conservation/Environmental movements. The radical, fringe, control freaks got the upper hand and are now the focus of the media. ELF gets far better rating than Smokey Bear and Woodsy Owl.
I have no idea what goes on in the drug-addled brain of the talking head but he coined a term that, while not terribly clever or creative, rang bells in lots of heads because it was descriptive. Just proves that even blind hogs find nuts from time to time.
But you are not free to put me in his "camp" because I'm in MY camp, I've never even SEEN his "camp" and the few times I've been subjected to him on radio, I've never felt the urge to run and find his "camp."
In MY camp we believe in the woman Helen Reddy introduced to the world. She sang:
"I am woman watch me grow
See me standing toe to toe
As I spread my lovin' arms across the land
But I'm still an embryo
With a long, long way to go
Until I make my brother understand
Read more: Helen Reddy - I Am Woman Lyrics | MetroLyrics
In my camp we believe that men can be brought to understanding without verbal, mental or physical abuse if we spread those loving arms.
originally posted by: diggindirt
But if you want to continue to see the world in black and white, that's okay with me too. I'll be enjoying all the wonderful colors, shades and hues out here in the world where I live. Meanwhile, I'm also conducting covert missions in which I teach young ladies to find the power within themselves to be the woman they want to be---no matter their choice of lifestyle.
I'm pretty sure I will go down in a ring of fire saluting you.
/salute... you woman... you person... you human... you being.
originally posted by: diggindirt
a reply to: Tangerine
Well, having studied Nazis in a lot of depth when I was younger, it was only natural that I would recognize the behaviors and agree with the fat boy that began calling the radical fringe feminists that very term. The attitude of "You will agree with our views 100% or you will be vilely attacked and shunned" is, in a word, Nazi.
I'll let you live with your comments.
originally posted by: Annee
originally posted by: nenothtu
originally posted by: amazing
My wife gets paid less than the guys she works with, though she's smarter and does more work. That's the problem.
I'm not sure whether to ask "why do you let your wife take that kind of abuse" or "why does your wife put up with such nonsense", so I guess I'll ask neither.
I'll just say that my wife, even as one of those "oppressed Muslim women" didn't, so I'm not quite sure why an "enlightened western woman" would.
Life gets so strange, some times.
Because often people put themselves in a position where they lose control.
Such as, you put your kid in an expensive private school. You need the job to pay for this extra expense, and are afraid if you make waves demanding equal pay, you will lose your job.
Yes, it is your own fault. You are responsible for your priorities.
I can say this now after living for close to 70 years and looking back.
YES! You've nailed it. Pressures, however subtle, can cause priorities to get skewed. I stayed in a profession for more than two years after realizing that it wasn't for me. Just to avoid the pressure that financial strain would add to the cultural pressure (from family and colleagues) that I was feeling in just making the decision to change my world. It took a for-real, heart-stopping, life-and-death of a loved-one moment to make me step back and take another look at what my priorities were. (An experience I wouldn't wish on an enemy, it took us at least two years to recognize the blessing it was for us.)
The familial pressures went along the lines of: "You spent all that time and money to learn to be a pill counter and make a handsome wage in a climate-controlled atmosphere and now you want to go dig in the dirt in the sun and get paid less than a plumber?" It was quite obvious to them I'd lost my mind.
From colleagues it was more along the lines of: "Hey, if you're unhappy you should take that job offer in Bowling Green and move on up to being Department Head." It was clear to them that I'd failed to properly medicate myself.
Whilst attempting to swim through the fog created by the hesitance to endorse my madcap adventure, there came that blast that cleared away the fog completely.
When presented with the choice of a paycheck or the duty to a loved one, the fog was gone. Participation in the care and healing of the man I loved, being his partner in regaining his health was the only acceptable choice. He was flat of his back at the time, incapable of moving about on his own so the question of having any sort of job was ruled out by the 24/7 nature of the care he required. What had appeared to me, just a couple of months earlier to be a hard decision was suddenly easy. I believe Don Henley caught the moment when he wrote,
"Oh, and it's sweet to know
The wisdom that living brings
Since I got a telegram from the god of simple things."
originally posted by: Annee
originally posted by: nenothtu
a reply to: Annee
Ah. It's a case of PPP then.
People realize that men are capable of PPP too, right?
I'm still not seeing a gender issue, especially in light of the fact that it's not just women who fail to exercise the laws that are given to them. If a person (of either gender) insists on a law, and that law is given them, and then they fail to exercise it... what more can the law do?
Is it really still proper, in such cases, to continue sitting back and blaming it on someone else?
Dude
Whether we agree or not, I do recognize intelligence that deserves respect. I mean you
back atcha. We may agree only rarely - or, well, maybe even never, but at least talking to you I don't feel like I'm talking to the wall, or just having fun blathering at a keyboard. You consider, you respond, and are on target often enough that I know if I don't duck fast, I'm going to get splattered. You're challenging, and that is often what makes conversation worth the effort.
Only by years and experience did I learn we are all responsible for our choices.
You don't just fall into an experience, then blame that experience for your downfall. It's your fault and you're responsibility.
I do hope you understand that I wasn't trying to rake you over the coals, or taking you to task - the questions in that post were rhetorical, and for the general readership following quietly along. C'mon - you KNOW they're out there!
But some times, I don't express myself as well as I should.
originally posted by: ErgoTheAbsurd
originally posted by: diggindirt
But if you want to continue to see the world in black and white, that's okay with me too. I'll be enjoying all the wonderful colors, shades and hues out here in the world where I live. Meanwhile, I'm also conducting covert missions in which I teach young ladies to find the power within themselves to be the woman they want to be---no matter their choice of lifestyle.
I'm pretty sure I will go down in a ring of fire saluting you.
/salute... you woman... you person... you human... you being.
Thank you. Apparently I'm to be allowed to live in spite of comments.
originally posted by: diggindirt
originally posted by: ErgoTheAbsurd
originally posted by: diggindirt
But if you want to continue to see the world in black and white, that's okay with me too. I'll be enjoying all the wonderful colors, shades and hues out here in the world where I live. Meanwhile, I'm also conducting covert missions in which I teach young ladies to find the power within themselves to be the woman they want to be---no matter their choice of lifestyle.
I'm pretty sure I will go down in a ring of fire saluting you.
/salute... you woman... you person... you human... you being.
Thank you. Apparently I'm to be allowed to live in spite of comments.
Seriously!
I chose to not even respond.
originally posted by: diggindirt
Thank you. Apparently I'm to be allowed to live in spite of comments.
A toast to competency over ideology!
I am reluctant to respond. I got spanked by the mods for making a funny.
Can we not all agree that there are some superficial differences between the sexes, but we each deserve equal respect?
I have little tolerance for disrespect on either side of the fence.
From a scientific angle, it is pretty simple. Men and women produce different hormones in differing levels.
Some men have higher than average levels of estrogen. Some women have higher levels of testosterone.
These chemicals affect the behavior of both sexes.
If a male is inclined toward wearing frilly panties, or a female is inclined towards coaching sports and driving a truck, this is no reason for either side to frown on the other or lack of a sense of humor.
Can we not all agree that there are some superficial differences between the sexes, but we each deserve equal respect?
I have little tolerance for disrespect on either side of the fence.
From a scientific angle, it is pretty simple. Men and women produce different hormones in differing levels.
Some men have higher than average levels of estrogen. Some women have higher levels of testosterone.
These chemicals affect the behavior of both sexes.
If a male is inclined toward wearing frilly panties, or a female is inclined towards coaching sports and driving a truck, this is no reason for either side to frown on the other or lack of a sense of humor.
originally posted by: Annee
originally posted by: diggindirt
originally posted by: ErgoTheAbsurd
originally posted by: diggindirt
But if you want to continue to see the world in black and white, that's okay with me too. I'll be enjoying all the wonderful colors, shades and hues out here in the world where I live. Meanwhile, I'm also conducting covert missions in which I teach young ladies to find the power within themselves to be the woman they want to be---no matter their choice of lifestyle.
I'm pretty sure I will go down in a ring of fire saluting you.
/salute... you woman... you person... you human... you being.
Thank you. Apparently I'm to be allowed to live in spite of comments.
Seriously!
I chose to not even respond.
Dang it, I thought it was the height of arrogance of that person to pluck me up out of my happy life and put me somebody's "camp" but now I realize how really lucky I am I suppose.
a reply to: skunkape23
I can completely agree that we should treat all people with kindness and respect. That is my normal demeanor. When I was hiring, firing or managing people in various positions, I always did my very best to keep my management style very even-handed.
I've heard some pretty funny "sexist" stuff on both sides, you know the stuff that makes you laugh despite being rude or crude.
I can completely agree that we should treat all people with kindness and respect. That is my normal demeanor. When I was hiring, firing or managing people in various positions, I always did my very best to keep my management style very even-handed.
I've heard some pretty funny "sexist" stuff on both sides, you know the stuff that makes you laugh despite being rude or crude.
a reply to: ErgoTheAbsurd
Cop out...
It's never a waste of time - if you feel very strongly about having your opinion heard. If you really wish for people to understand
Out of all your posts - you've only alluded to what you want to say - farmed the rest out to videos
:-)
So, in your own words...as best you can: what has feminism been hijacked for?
Your response suggests that you don't have a clue what feminism has been hijacked for. It's been explained repeatedly so re-explaining it is a waste of time.
Cop out...
It's never a waste of time - if you feel very strongly about having your opinion heard. If you really wish for people to understand
Out of all your posts - you've only alluded to what you want to say - farmed the rest out to videos
:-)
So, in your own words...as best you can: what has feminism been hijacked for?
originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
Cop out...
It's never a waste of time - if you feel very strongly about having your opinion heard. If you really wish for people to understand
Looking at my post in the context of what it was replying to might be useful.
originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
Out of all your posts - you've only alluded to what you want to say - farmed the rest out to videos
:-)
So, in your own words...as best you can: what has feminism been hijacked for?
Divide and Conquer in the same way all mass manipulation of populations through emotionally driven narratives utilizing falsely represented statistics and distortions of history have done through the centuries. I've mentioned that multiple times.
Just because you haven't heard or understood or believed me, doesn't mean I haven't been saying it loud and clear.
originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
Spill it
You are free to find the point of view I've offered worth looking into or not.
I'm going to guess that we would both agree the time I could continue in here where all perspectives have more or less been offered would be better spent with my female partner.
/salute and best to you!
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