What is a feminist, what is feminism, and what is a 'feminazi'? Do you know what they are?

A critique of Betty Friedan

BETTY FRIEDAN IS UNIVERSALLY REGARDED as one of the founding mothers of feminism's Second Wave. In The Feminine Mystique, published in 1963, Friedan aimed to expose the sexist underpinnings of America's post-World War II complacent prosperity. Friedan argued that millions of American housewives found the destiny of mother and housewife which society mapped out for them stifling, repressive and even dehumanizing.

However, for all its acclaim and its status as the book that ignited the women's movement, praise for Friedan's Feminine Mystique has never been unqualified. Indeed many feminists have criticized its myopic representation of women. There is hardly a word in The Feminine Mystique that would indicate that American women in the 1950s were dealing with problems other than the trap of suburban domesticity which, after all, was a consequence of economic prosperity. The problems facing, for example, millions of poor, working women or non- white women -- oppressive working conditions and low pay, racism, and the burdens of a double day -- barely register on the radar screen of The Feminine Mystique. As Rosemarie Tong remarks, "Friedan seemed oblivious to any other perspectives than those of white, middle- class, heterosexual, educated women who found the traditional roles of wife and mother unsatisfying."4

Friedan spent one year doing graduate work in psychology at Berkeley (1942-1943). She was offered a scholarship but declined it. While at Berkeley her social milieu consisted of active members of the Communist Party United States of America (CPUSA). Notably, one of her boyfriends, David Bohm, a party member, was a physicist at work on the Manhattan Project, developing the atomic bomb. He was later called up by HUAC, (as were several of her Berkeley professors). Bohm was acquitted and left the country.9

Certainly it is evident that portrayals (and dismissals) of Friedan as a clued-out liberal feminist must be reconsidered. Clearly she was a canny, seasoned political activist when she wrote The Feminine Mystique. Arguably, it may have been her political and professional experience that enabled her to tap so brilliantly into the mood, of and appeal to, middle-class housewives. She left out references to Marx, Engels, and de Beauvoir which, according to Horowitz, were included in early drafts and instead emphasized her persona as a smart college graduate and trapped housewife.

nova.wpunj.edu...

Read the entire article to get a full representation of Friedan as connected to CPUSA and her true radical beliefs and agenda as aligned with that of the Communist Party.

a reply to: Dem0nc1eaner

I don't agree my partner is a stay at home dad, it's a purely economic decision as he was not in work and I was. He is not a loser, he is a strong male rolemodel for our children.
You said you had never heard women describe gender discrimination. I gave you 2 examples and you tried to say it's ok because I could be a stay at home mum!

originally posted by: diggindirt

Being the hedonistic heathen that I am, pleasure is one of my primary concerns. I can't imagine anything less pleasurable than a world filled with only women. Excess estrogen is just as toxic as excess testosterone. I've seen it and it's nasty. I think some of those women you met might have been some of my former students....or their spiritual sisters.

I believe you may be from similar origins as myself - both geographically and culturally, based upon information from your posts. We take life a little differently around here, and you probably do there, too.

I so wanted to respond to this comment of yours:

Yeah, we didn't have any Little League in our neighborhood. It ticked me off that the boys could go shirtless and I had to wear one.

But didn't. I no doubt would have been pounced upon for what I would have flippantly answered, even though it would have been in jest.

Sort of.

How 'bout this instead - Northerners are inherently misogynistic, and Southerners inherently inclusive. As evidence, I submit that it's built into the very language differences. For example, Northerners, when addressing a group, mixed or not, will begin with "you guys...", masculinizing the whole regardless of gender. Southerners, on the other hand, invariably begin with "you all...", "y'all... " or "yawl..." - a far more inclusive phrase.

I blame those militant feminists on the NC campus on Yankee invaders.

let the flames fly, and release the kraken!

I think the greeting "you guys" is almost genderless these days. I use it when I send emails to multiple people.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: Dem0nc1eaner

I don't agree my partner is a stay at home dad, it's a purely economic decision as he was not in work and I was. He is not a loser, he is a strong male rolemodel for our children.
You said you had never heard women describe gender discrimination. I gave you 2 examples and you tried to say it's ok because I could be a stay at home mum!

I know many stay at home dads these days.

The Feminism movement of equality reached across all gender restrictions and stereotypes.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
I think the greeting "you guys" is almost genderless these days. I use it when I send emails to multiple people.

GUILTY!!!

I use "you guys" for everyone.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson

In the same thread it was also stated women who had casual sex were sluts. Proof to me feminism still has work to do. How dare someone force their own morality on someone else, and not even in a polite manner but using derogatory language to shame women who enjoy sex outside of relationships.

We're a pretty daring bunch, us troglodytes.

If you are referring to the thread I think you are, I don't recall anyone referring to such women as "sluts" - although I believe the term "promiscuous" WAS bandied about. I also don't recall anyone trying to "force" anything upon them, morality or otherwise. As I recall, what was said was that they wouldn't associate themselves with such. That is the very antithesis of "forcing upon", and is a matter of free choice of association, rather than any sort of imposition.

You would prefer forced association?

There is a name for that...

a reply to: nenothtu

I suggest you go back and read the thread somebody spoke very nicely about the slut who went to his school.
I think using the derogatory term about someone who has different sexual morals is wrong. It's quite simple and easy to say you disagree with someone's morals without calling them derogatory names.
I think using derogatory terms about someone is trying to shame them into following your beliefs, that to me is forcing them on people.

Those on here that seem to hate it that women like to be of equal human value as men, are quickly using a few feminazis as a reason that they hate the whole feminist shebang.
Are you the same people that keep saying how a handful of extremists doesn't mean all muslims are evil?
Because if you do, you are hypocrites.

As a woman I have been in so many 'sexist' and patronising situations that my husband as a man never had to endure. Even reading comments on here seems that if you want equal human status you are already moaning/nagging too much and are a man hating ugly dyke.

A lot of posts on here are really condescending to women. The one I hate the most is that men have it just as bad as women. Awww. No you don't. On an individual basis I am sure that a lot of men have been treated unfairly for one reason or another but as a group I have to say: "No, you don't have it as bad!"
In the same way that white people don't have it as bad as black people in general.

You are not called 'luvvie' and get a smile only reserved for the mentally disabled or a sexist 'joke' when you bring your car to the garage.
When you buy a car and pay for it with your card and tell them it is for you but then the salesman gives the keys to your husband.
You don't get a 6 foot guy just barge into your home to read the meter even though you say 'stay out' and he only leaves when your husband turns up and shoves him out.
You don't have to fear walking in the dark as much as a small woman like me.

These are only a handful out of thousands of situations just from my life, now multiply this by every woman alive. And I am one who can normally hold her own against sh!t like that, what do you think shy, quiet women go through?

I am quite outspoken but I wouldn't call myself a feminist, I just want females to be recognised as equal humans, that doesn't mean I want to do the same crap that men do. I am quite happy at home making a nest, even though I studied. I don't want to be a mechanic or a weightlifter. I do want to go to a pub though and have a laugh and a drink without being treated as a sex object; but someone you can have a conversation with, laugh with, hang out with.

Also men think I am 'weird' and 'odd' because I don't scream when I see a mouse, I touch spiders and rats [love them] and love horror movies, I love driving, I can park in any space and I do fix my own toilet and love football/soccer. I also like dressing nicely and I like shiny things and animals.
With a lot of men, I get the feeling that they would prefer it if I would speak with the voice of a three year old, pretend to be helpless and stupid and not try to butt in when talking about sport.

Women, know your limits:
www.youtube.com...



Fortunately my husband and our friends are not like that.

If you don't get that there are women who call themselves feminists that make even my skin crawl but that they are really a minority, and that women are still treated worse than men in so many ways, then you must be blind and stupid or just don't like the idea of equal women.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
I think the greeting "you guys" is almost genderless these days. I use it when I send emails to multiple people.

I rest my case - and you're not even a Yankee!

a reply to: nenothtu

Lol no I am however from the north of England!

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
I think the greeting "you guys" is almost genderless these days. I use it when I send emails to multiple people.

GUILTY!!!

I use "you guys" for everyone.

Another fine example - and you're nominally a "feminist" to boot!

Shame on you!

a reply to: nenothtu

I think though when terms become gender neutral it's the male version that tends to be used. Like the word tutor as I believe the female version is tutorvix which is a bit of a mouthfull.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: nenothtu

I suggest you go back and read the thread somebody spoke very nicely about the slut who went to his school.
I think using the derogatory term about someone who has different sexual morals is wrong. It's quite simple and easy to say you disagree with someone's morals without calling them derogatory names.
I think using derogatory terms about someone is trying to shame them into following your beliefs, that to me is forcing them on people.

You have a point. It's not a term I use myself, but one I've heard. I can even recall the first time I ever heard it, and the confusion it caused me - all sorts of wild and improbable imagery, before it was explained to me what it meant.

I submit that "shame" resides internally, rather than externally. For example, there are a great many things I should be ashamed of, going by other folks' standards, but I'm not. Not in the least. that's because I go by my own standards, and don't much care about the standards of others. As a result, I can't be "shamed into" anything, nor "shamed out of" it. It's possibly just a personal psychological defect on my part, though.

Because of that, however, I have a difficult time understanding how anyone can be shamed into following someone else's standards. it has it's positive impacts, though - by the same token, "peer pressure" never did much to whip me into line.

a reply to: nenothtu

I think that's why they use derogatory words, if you say to someone, I don't agree with your attitude towards sex, then you could accept that as a difference of opinion and be fine. When somebody says you are a slut, that is intended to make the other person feel bad and ashamed.
I hope my daughter will be strong enough to rebuff any attempt to tear her down in this way.

a reply to: diggindirt

I appreciate that you mentioned your friend who was 10 years older then you, and how that 10 years really made a difference.

As I am the same age as your friend, I concur. IMO that age was at the tail end of women's oppression in the US, and the beginning of freedom and equality.

Some activist Femnists from that early era feel hurt that young girls today take it for granted. But, that's how it goes. Just because I actually lived it, and fought for equality, does not need to be a burden on their young shoulders. They just need to take their freedom/equality and soar with it.

Paving the way often goes unrewarded.

A ball set in motion usually keeps on rolling. Fighting it with antiquated ideology is not going to stop it, probably not even slow it down.

Isn't it a better idea to get onboard and help steer it?

originally posted by: WilsonWilson

I hope my daughter will be strong enough to rebuff any attempt to tear her down in this way.

I'm helping raise my 14 year old granddaughter. When she was younger and tried to clam up when she was upset or hiding something, we made her sit on a tall stool in the middle of the living room until she was ready to talk.

We did not want her holding stuff in. It worked like a charm. Maybe too good, 'cuz she has no problem today speaking up for herself. LOL

She is already 5'8", striking looking, intelligent, and we live in a beach area not far from Hollywood. I can only hope all we did will be enough. 'Cuz at this age you can't tell them anything.

I don't have a problem with the term feminazi, there are many of them out there in the wild and to believe that one-sided radicalized and militant feminism does not exist is simply delusional. I am certainly not saying that all female feminists are inclined this way, however there will always be a minority percentage of assholes in any social or religious collective that will create stereotyping and rebranding.

Make no mistake though, feminazi in some cases is a very accurate descriptor and they are generally narcissistic sociopaths. Now, personally I love women and I am not judgmental unless they are truly ignorant, but even women label other women. How often does one's wife refer to the girls that tried to pick up their husband as sluts? I heard that three times Saturday night. Lol.

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: Hecate666

A lot of posts on here are really condescending to women. The one I hate the most is that men have it just as bad as women. Awww. No you don't. On an individual basis I am sure that a lot of men have been treated unfairly for one reason or another but as a group I have to say: "No, you don't have it as bad!"
In the same way that white people don't have it as bad as black people in general.

men have it differently bad than women. it ain't no cakewalk either way. Once upon a time, I had big plans for being a "kept man" - they fell through. That sort of thing seems to be the exclusive provenance of women, no boys allowed in that club. So, I had to get off my ass and go to work. I worked most of my life being shot at. Unfortunately, there are not many girls in THAT club to take up the slack, although that's changing these days. I've worked with some truly scary women in that connection. They would make the most hardened "militant feminist" blanch, and probably faint. They weren't, as a rule, "one of the guys" - they were a damn sight scarier.

Here's the deal: women have it bad in one way, men in another. until they get their acts together, see it for how it really is, and try to mitigate that as only cooperation can do, it's going to stay that way. Supporting one another works better than picking "sides" and duking it out amongst us.

You are not called 'luvvie'

Nope, I can't recall anyone ever calling me "luvvie" - I CAN recall being called "honey", "sugar", and such like terms by complete strangers - I just never perceived it as a problem. I once had a woman walk past me and tell me that she wished my uniform was a "speedo". It's hard to take offense - but it seems that a lot of women do in similar circumstances. I guess maybe I should have been offended - where in the hell would I have kept my gun and equipment in such a uniform? Still, I chose NOT to be offended.

and get a smile only reserved for the mentally disabled or a sexist 'joke' when you bring your car to the garage.

here's a fun little exercise - go down to your local courthouse, and wait around until a man brings in some "domestic violence" charges against a woman. it may be a bit of a wait, but it'll be worth it in the reward when you see OTHER people's reactions to it. take popcorn - I guarantee you won't be disappointed if you have the patience to wait for it.

I know EXACTLY what it looks like - from the inside.

When you buy a car and pay for it with your card and tell them it is for you but then the salesman gives the keys to your husband.

Is that sort of like when I go grocery shopping, give the cashier the money for the groceries, and she gives the change back to my wife? Never bothered me - we're both in the same marriage, together.

You don't get a 6 foot guy just barge into your home to read the meter even though you say 'stay out' and he only leaves when your husband turns up and shoves him out.

Nope. I have to take the risk of doing the shoving.

You don't have to fear walking in the dark as much as a small woman like me.

That's debateable, but I've never been afraid of the dark, or what might be in it, so I couldn't really debate it I suppose. Not even when I was a small boy, liable to be eaten by anything walking.

These are only a handful out of thousands of situations just from my life, now multiply this by every woman alive. And I am one who can normally hold her own against sh!t like that, what do you think shy, quiet women go through?

Something similar to what shy, quiet GUYS go through? It ain't all roses over here, either.

I am quite outspoken but I wouldn't call myself a feminist, I just want females to be recognised as equal humans, that doesn't mean I want to do the same crap that men do. I am quite happy at home making a nest, even though I studied.

We are not so different, then.

I don't want to be a mechanic or a weightlifter. I do want to go to a pub though and have a laugh and a drink without being treated as a sex object; but someone you can have a conversation with, laugh with, hang out with.

me too. I finally found out it was best to avoid the "meat markets", though. there are some pretty sexually aggressive WOMEN out there, too. All I wanted was a drink - I could find the extras without the sales pitches. Now I just don't go to bars at all. Life is better that way, for me.

Also men think I am 'weird' and 'odd' because I don't scream when I see a mouse, I touch spiders and rats [love them] ...

maybe we AREN'T so alike, after all!

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: nenothtu

Lol no I am however from the north of England!

All of my people from over that way are from the SOUTH of Scotland - So I'm a multi-generational southerner, I reckon. We're talking 300 or 400 years of generations removed, here. No wonder we are at odds with one another - that whole "Borderers" problem and all. It's no doubt genetic. Your ancestors boxed mine up and "transported" them to the Americas, because we were troublesome folk.