No more military?

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
I would love to close down all of the American foreign military bases and let the world fend for itself.
We could protect or southern border then to. The results would be very interesting.

Just imagine how much money the country would save.
How much money could be shared out, where its really needed.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

The 1980 two continent war is the best standing. But keeping them at home practicing on the border, until they are needed overseas.

But that won't happen. The military has been gutted and is being abused for "humanitarian" and "medical" services, for which they were not designed nor trained to do.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
a reply to: cavtrooper7

The 1980 two continent war is the best standing. But keeping them at home practicing on the border, until they are needed overseas.

But that won't happen. The military has been gutted and is being abused for "humanitarian" and "medical" services, for which they were not designed nor trained to do.

Humanitairian and medical services are conducted by medical and engineer units. It is what they do. Not only is good for hearts and minds but, great as real world training. Sitting the military on the border and retraining them as boder guards so none of them are training in thier specialties would be a disaster. Not to mention a complete waste of time. Some how in WW2 we had the largest boder force in US history of 1000 men. Now we have 28,000. Of course back before the late 1980s nobody had a problem with illegals coming and going. In the 1950s the Government rounded up 50K illegals and deported them. The public back lash at the money wasted on kick out people just here to do menial labor ended that idea for 40 years. Now we waste tons of money on stopping people vital to our economy. Ironic that.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Okay technically we are still at war with North Korea. South Korea is our ally and they want our help.

Also we pay Germany, Italy, and Japan to be there and in turn we are in that area to send people anywhere quickly. They are our allies and we do joint operations with them.

We have ONE base in Africa. It's in Djibouti where I am right now. We are training different militaries along side the French, Germans, Japanese, South Koreans, the UK, Australians, and Italians.

Where is your source that the Germans and Italians don't want us there. Did you just come up with that?

It's like what MrSpad said. It would create a vacuum if we left completely. I think we should limit more on foreign bases, but we can't stop completely.

a reply to: YouSir

I don't know if you were trying to be funny. It didn't need to be fixed. You held no value to the debate whatsoever.

originally posted by: WanderingSage
a reply to: grandmakdw

Okay technically we are still at war with North Korea. South Korea is our ally and they want our help.

Also we pay Germany, Italy, and Japan to be there and in turn we are in that area to send people anywhere quickly. They are our allies and we do joint operations with them.

We have ONE base in Africa. It's in Djibouti where I am right now. We are training different militaries along side the French, Germans, Japanese, South Koreans, the UK, Australians, and Italians.

Where is your source that the Germans and Italians don't want us there. Did you just come up with that?

It's like what MrSpad said. It would create a vacuum if we left completely. I think we should limit more on foreign bases, but we can't stop completely.

My source for the Germans don't want us there?

I lived there for 6 years. The first 3 years we had protesters constantly, the local clerks were rude and sullen and delighted in watching me struggle with my German dictionary only to snidely answer in great English. We were not wanted openly and clearly by "the people". I was miserable, I wanted to be there as much as the people wanted us there. I could understand a lot more German that time than I could even try and utter, I heard the comments when they thought I could not understand. It was awful.

As you know "the people" does not mean the government, as in the US, the government frequently does what it will regardless of how the people feel about it.

The second 3 years were in "little America", as a military person you know the area. The economy there is completely dependent of the American's being there. Most people liked having us there, but once you got to know them, there was a underlying hostility about being "occupied". It did change my attitude about Germans and Germany as I was comfortable there, but in all honesty, it was because it was really an occupied little America and no one made nasty comments to us on the street in German assuming we could not understand the language.

The source, me, before the wall went down, and recently.

We had lots of friends in Italy and were told the local people also felt the same way, just look at the hissy the Italians threw when they found out at first all of our Ebola quarantine was going to be done there without their knowledge or permission. I don't blame them. The US did change it's mind and is "spreading" them out. But the Italians love having tanks, military in uniform "occupying" their country as much as the Germans do.

a reply to: WanderingSage


Ummm....I find it quite telling that you seem to think that though constitutionally the "Army" is to be disbanded after any given "war" and returned to the states..........you seem to think bringing up that one little sticking point to your tirade adds..."no value to the debate Whatsoever"..?

Perhaps...indeed...if we were about the business of being "constitutional" then your very premise would be...moot...and there would be no vaccume to need filling as we would then be about the business of minding our own...business that is.

Perhaps you could wrap your head around that and imagine all of those who threw away their lives at the behest of empire could instead be sharing a cold one out back at the barbeque....but I guess if it doesn't fit into your premise then that also might not have any value in your one sided "debate"...

To hell with policing and empire........simply because you wish to stand up boogeymen the world round does not mean that your friend or sister...mother or brother should gladly leap to that IED...

Un freaking believable.....The question of following constitutional law no longer bears "value to your debate"..."Whatsoever".

Thank you for allowing me control of your mind for the duration this exercise...








YouSir

a reply to: YouSir

One statement doesn't add value. You said the constitution and that is all. Now you actually explained your point. And don't talk to me about IEDs and the people who are fighting. I am one of those people. The constitution was written a long time ago and we need a standing army or else you'd be speaking a different language. Plus I never said half of what you put. So get over yourself.

By the way, you're grammar sucks. My five year old can spell better and has much better sentence structure.

a reply to: grandmakdw

So I should trust what you are saying. Okay well you may had a bad experience, but a lot of my buddies who have lived in Germany for a long time say opposite. Hell, a lot of them have wives from Germany. So if ALL the German people hate America like you think then why is that?

Also you never responded to all the other wrong information you posted about.

originally posted by: WanderingSage
Okay as of late there has been quite a few people just really ragging on the US military or military in general. So all you people who call the military murderers and horrible people let me ask you something. What would happen if we disbanded all of our military tomorrow? If everyone oversees were sent home and the standing military was no more. Just a see ya later and thanks for coming out. Do you really think that if there was no military there'd be peace on earth or no war? Or would the US just get taken over? I mean all of you who hate the murdering military then surely you have thought about this. Or do you think that we could cut back on the military budget which is much more reasonable. So let's here your opinions and let the words fly!

Also I don't know if this in the right category so mods please move if need be.

pretty pointless question. if we liquidate the military we have no protection and just about anyone with a military coul take us over. what you should be asking is what would happen if we pulled our military out of foreign countries.

I think if anyone has been taking note of what the rest of the world is doing, you would see we need a strong military and quick access to many parts of the globe. Just Google news on Russian warships, Google news on Russian war planes, Also Google New subs launched and aircraft carriers; then Google the same for china, and North Korea and many many more. See for yourself and see what their activities have been for the last few years. Many people like to say that the competing military's forces don't compare to ours, but if you listen to our own officers, you would see they are concerned, at least just before they are fired for speaking out.
I feel George Washington was right about a strong standing military and peace, I also feel Benjamin Franklin was right on about liberty and security. Those truths have been proven in our own history, but history is not being taught as it should be and the ideals of this country are being veiled by the fears of conspiracy. Not saying there are no conspiracy's, I'm just saying we either support what we have, and what we hope the country will retain of the original idea, and what we hope the country to be. Along the way of supporting our nation, we fight for it and stand ready to fight for it, if we don't the bullies of the world will ride right over the top of us.

force.a reply to: WanderingSage

originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: WanderingSage

A lot of these threads popping up lately. What I think you don't understand is that people aren't upset with the people serving but are upset with the U.S. leaders and corporations who are using the military for their own personal gain, also known as the military industrial complex.

Nothing personal, but BULL. A lot of people are, in fact, very hostile to the people serving. There are slurs made against them, and even attacks. I personally witnessed one such attack, where a crowd of cowards attacked a lone soldier, nearly knocking him out. Planned. Some people might simply disagree with how the government handles things, but plenty more are very negative towards military.

Not most people, but some. Most are appreciative. Seen that, too, towards soldiers I know, mine included. Always nice to see some appreciation for the sacrifices made.

If you haven't encountered the worst types, that's good, because it means the numbers are small, but believe me, they are around.

I don't think anyone is against having a military at all, what people are against is having a military that invades and occupies other nations for profit. What we should have is a national defense force instead we have an empire building force that only benefits the most evil of beings.

I personally cannot and will not support any individual who willingly signs up for such a force. I do not and will not support corporate mercenaries who will kill innocent people who have not lifted a finger against us (or anyone else in many cases) for profit. If the soldiers would just refuse to go overseas the problem would be solved.

It is the soldiers that make the whole sick game possible. Do you really believe that the war profiteers would go and fight the wars and steal resources on their own?

The military is supposed to fight our enemies not enable them. The constitution and our rights have been trampled on since before any of us were born, now who is going to do something about it?

From one of my other posts and I meant every word of it.

"There is no excuse for a person to get on a plane or ship, go to someone else s country and start shooting, maiming, bombing or any other action of violence and death or giving any kind of support to the ones doing the maiming and killing. This is quite clear to anyone who has anything above and beyond mashed potatoes in their cranial cavity.

If a person joins the military for the right reason (which would be to defend our freedom) then they should simply refuse to leave the country and instead turn their attentions towards the federal government (all branches), lobbyists, the federal reserve, the nsa, cia, fbi and any other entity that is actively assaulting the rights, freedoms and general prosperity of we the people.

Commanding officer doesn't like it? Arrest him and anyone else in who opposes as they are also criminally complicit.

Someone said in one of these posts that the armed forces fight so that we don't have to. That is ridiculous! It is the armed forces lack of fighting our enemies that will eventually (possibly) force us the people to fight. Hell, they are taking orders from our enemies! To add insult to injury it is likely that it is the armed forces that will be fighting against us in order to protect the very enemies that are assaulting all of us including the service men and their families. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

The armed forces are to the world what the police are to the U.S. Basically just a control mechanism to impose with brute force the will of the wealthy few on to the comparatively impoverished many. Anyone joining at this point in time or staying in willingly is in my opinion a traitor to freedom, peace and prosperity.

We all know (most of us anyway) who the bad guys are now and it's not the russians, arabs or north koreans for God's sake. If you choose to fight for an evil empire then you are just a hired criminal thug no better than an inner city gang banger fighting for his bosses turf."

do you guys not see the impact shutting down our military bases would have on us? If we did that I wouldn't be surprised if each of our allies turned against us and they all came after us. "Hey we're all mad at America and have a common interest: getting rid of it."

Im neither for or against the military. But in this situation of have to say getting rid of it would only create a negative reaction world wide.

But my dad always said the best way to win a fight was to act a little crazy.

a reply to: WanderingSage

OH PLEASE FOLKS

This is ATS, I expect better from most of you people.

No one is saying shut down the US military, not even a pro Russia US government hater like me.

What does make sense is to use US military for protection of US and not for BS like pre-emptive wars.

Concept of PRE-EMPTION has been made up by Neocons and Zionists to wage wars of OFFENSE not defense.

This stuff is basics, so I am little bit disappointed for having to spell it out

How much military would be needed to protect our shores, only? Would the National Guard be big enough? Keeping the military is the only way to protect America. Yes we could close all those oversea bases that are open if the Country they are in wants them closed. That would be a good thing, for us and them. But what would happen if said country called America and asked us for help. How would we repopulate those bases? All that takes time. Like the military or not we are sort of stuck with what we have. A reduction is force is not the answer either. Because as soon as we are asked for help by some country we have to make the decision weather to go or not. If we go then we do not have enough people to go. Like it or not the military plays a huge roll in who American military is and what we do in this world.

a reply to: WanderingSage

Yes let's disband the military. Let's bend over and drop our pants and hope that we aren't badly abused.

After all, the world is just filled with friendly nations and people who just want peace.

It's not like the threat of one of the world's most dangerous fighting forces is the only thing keeping people from dropping sanctions and embargoes on the CONUS like there was no tomorrow. And it's not like there are countries out there that have actively conspired to outright own or destroy the United States through convoluted schemes since the conception of the independent 13 colonies.

That was all sarcasm by the way

I say we reduce the standing military by half and shut down all overseas bases. If someone wants to screw with the US after that, we send a carrier group to park 251 nautical miles off their border and see how they feel after that.

You would be delusional to think that the threat of what happened in the first Gulf War isn't the only thing keeping the US economically afloat.

The US didn't lose in Vietnam and they didn't lose in Iraq or Afghanistan. You can't lose at something if there was never any way to win. MLRS, air wings, MEUs, and Stryker brigades are just a fraction of what the military is capable of.

Be thankful the United States has never had to fight someone that is nearly as equal as they are because the amount of death and destruction they would inflict would make the first world war look like a pissing contest between 5 year olds.

Anyone who criticizes our military is a moron. You wouldn't be walking around with the ability to insult our military if it wasn't for the military. The only thing that needs to be "eliminated" or "reduced" is our government. Politicians have sold their and our souls for power and shiny toys and we just sit comfortably in our recliners with a remote in one hand and a wireless device in the other as our civil liberties are continuously kidnapped and raped. I guarantee you if the government turned off the internet people would finally stand up and say "enough". We, as a country, are just getting dumber and dumber and frankly we deserve to get our asses kicked.

a reply to: WanderingSage

Get off your high horse, and please bring your parachute because it's a long way down.

Nobody said abolish the military. People are just sick of being told the military is fighting for our freedom when they are fighting for corporate profiteering. Capturing oil and poppy fields is not defending freedom. Jesus, I cannot believe people are this thick.