Solving the police corruption and violence problem in the US

ADD, this is not a rant this is a genuine attempt to engage members in a debate about a very serious and immediate topic.

Hi, I'd like to talk problem solving here. First let me start with the premise. Basically what I think the problem is with police in this country is a culture issue. I don't think its an individual problem as much as its the culture of violence and egotism behind the shield itself. It's the competitive, masculine, ego driven, possible steroid driven, way that they interact that creates this problem. They are always trying to one up each other, get bigger busts, winning that bet, making jokes out of, and whatever else I'm missing. They are perpetrating a thug mentality.

I don't think that attacking the police at the individual level through creul punishments is what we really need to focus on in order to solve the problem. Don't get me wrong I think villein the thugs need to be punished even more severely then their civilian counterparts. I think we need to ALSO start addressing the culture. We should be demanding exceptionalism, and strong community times. I think we should make them interact on a personal level positively with the community as part of their job.

Ok ATS, let's here what you have to say about this.

a reply to: onequestion

We know this.

This is why many are outraged at the collective.

I said it many times and will say it again...If police witness or know of corruption, illegal actions etc. amongst their blue brothers and fail to report because of their BS code, they are also just as guilty.

If they commit crimes against citizens and use the excuse "I am only following orders", they are only puppets and are guilty.

We all have a choice.

Peace

We are introducing cameras for all policemen and women in this state,all their work will be recorded this will go a long way to stopping such behaviour here.

Body cameras, as a start, tampering with or turning them off during duty will result in immediate termination......

Make these feeds hve to be monitored and stored by civilian companies so that were more assured that vids dont go missing or locked away by the boys in blue

Make them susceptible to auditing and investigation by civilian services as well, our tax dollars pour into these facilities, they work for us, they are paid by us, they will be held accountable by us. Protect and SERVE, not abuse and bully.......

Increase penalties for any crime perpetrated by someone with a badge.....You want to enforce the law, then you are there to be an example of it, if you abuse it , its your ass.......

a reply to: onequestion

I think we should make them interact on a personal level positively with the community as part of their job.

thing is they used too interact with the community....around 20 years ago i remember at the football games when police turned up the whole crowd would start singing "whats the color of a 2 cent coin...copper,copper"..the police would laugh it off and literally walk round chatting to people and shaking their hands....and were respected !!

somewhere along the line the people turned into the enemy and a source of revenue

Police must live in the community they police and it might not be a bad idea to make them elected or at least require a number of signatures from his/her community. Federal police are fine but they are responsible for their actions in any given community and are fully arrestable.

Thats how I would do it.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

somewhere along the line the people turned into the enemy and a source of revenue

Thats just it, when the departments started seeing people as revenue, they BECAME the enemy.......now so many are no better than the MOB and any other organized racketeering gang

Do away with "internal investigations" that almost always side with the LEO. All investigations involving LEO corruption, brutality or other lawlessness should be reviewed by a citizens panel in the community they work in and who pay their salary's.

And any wrong doing should not be given any preferential treatment. LEOs should be subject to the same laws as ordinary citizens.

Steroid use should be cause for immediate termination.

s&F

It's takes several things in my opinion.

Better national and local training, including better non lethal and open handed training.
Better physical training and fitness standards for police officers.
Better psychological screening and standards for hiring police officers.
A huge national and local PR program.
Sensitivity training.
Outreach and community involvement programs.

Most of this stuff already exists, can be copied and implemented at fairly inexpensive cost. Sometimes even free.

I'd offer to teach Police in Vegas for 50% off and I'm sure my other fellow instructors would do the same.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

somewhere along the line the people turned into the enemy and a source of revenue

Thats just it, when the departments started seeing people as revenue, they BECAME the enemy.......now so many are no better than the MOB and any other organized racketeering gang

That's kind of it in a nutshell IMO. I would add that they are deliberately recruiting and training for that thug mentality. Also add that the "police are policing themselves" and it is a never ending spiral.

a reply to: amazing

How about a polygraph at the selection stage . Surely this will help to bring a better psychological picture of a candidates propensity to go bad . Follow up test 2 yearly . Downside is they are not 100 percent accurate and the moral majority will burning flags in the street .

originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: amazing

How about a polygraph at the selection stage . Surely this will help to bring a better psychological picture of a candidates propensity to go bad . Follow up test 2 yearly . Downside is they are not 100 percent accurate and the moral majority will burning flags in the street .

I think that's all part of it. No test will be 100 percent accurate, but I think they help weed out some of the problem cops we have now. And then these tests need to be public so that we know that police force hiring standards are improving.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
Police must live in the community they police and it might not be a bad idea to make them elected or at least require a number of signatures from his/her community. Federal police are fine but they are responsible for their actions in any given community and are fully arrestable.

Thats how I would do it.

Well, this does work. In small towns it sure works that way. Where I live the local sheriff is elected and he and the deputies live in the community. I'm not scared of the police here. I will say that I don't know how logistically possible that may be in larger communities and in cities.

not going to happen. The police state is here to stay IMO. Any revolution will necessitate the withdrawal of circus and bread. That's a whole nother thread. Just wanted to contribute to what should be a widely discussed issue.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

Body cameras, as a start, tampering with or turning them off during duty will result in immediate termination......

Not if the pig unions have anything to say about it. And we know how benign they are when it comes to policy and politics (missing sarcasm font):

NY

Miami

St. Louis

Vegas

To name but a few examples of union opposition. So don't count on the policies of LE agencies to officially change in the public's favor anytime soon. Not without massive litigation. I'm afraid something like this would have to be legislated.

And politicians won't say 'boo' to cops, for fear of being labeled "anti-law enforcement". Not that they care anyway. They're responsible (well, ultimately we are) for this whole mess in the first place, in large part.

A little thing that I think would do some good is to immasculate the police just a bit. Not saying to put them in dresses, but put police in uniforms that make them feel more like servants than soldiers. They would still have the ability to defend themselves, but may be less apt to shoot on sight.

Making them personally responsible and liable for their actions would be a great start. When you sue a cop, it don't come out of the cop's personal paycheck or pension. If it did, I am quite sure we would see a huge turn around in their demeanor and actions.

Two words to improve policing in the US, particularly what appears to be a "shoot first" culture in some areas.

1. Training - Up the standards.
2. Repercussions - Introduce real sanctions for failure. The police should not be seen to be above the law.

The police need to re-set as servants of the people and the word "enforcement" removed i.e. "law enforcement". Policing, like in the UK, should be by consent.

Also, just to add that I am sure the vast majority of police in the US are decent and motivated. It's just the minority that causes the problem.

Regards

a reply to: onequestion

Guten Morgen- I actually wrote up a grant to get body cameras for our P.D. in 1997 that would've been provided and maintained and even the company would provide the editing equipment FREE of charge, We got an armored SWAT van instead and that was one of the first of the Feds. giving their military crap to cities/counties..

It would also help tremendously if the P.D. was more representative of the community they serve, i.e. if the community is 80% "other than White" it serves 'little/no good' to have 'Steve Whitebread' from the 'Burbs pushing a blk./wh. through the streets, in some cultures if You don't acknowledge the 'elder' they won't even let You in the house, let alone the language barriers, if Yu can't talk/listen/communicate/respect the differences how well will Your communications be?

One way to look at it, it can only get "better"...

originally posted by: redhorse

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
Police must live in the community they police and it might not be a bad idea to make them elected or at least require a number of signatures from his/her community. Federal police are fine but they are responsible for their actions in any given community and are fully arrestable.

Thats how I would do it.

Well, this does work. In small towns it sure works that way. Where I live the local sheriff is elected and he and the deputies live in the community. I'm not scared of the police here. I will say that I don't know how logistically possible that may be in larger communities and in cities.

Not always. I live in a very small town, pop about 2,800 - 3,000. A couple of the cops around here are Chicago cops that retired after getting their time in and the rest are locals who honestly don't know the law. They go by the "I don't think you should be doing that" school of policing ,then find some statue to loosely fit what they think is illegal. The county Sheriff is elected and his Deputies are appointed by him. I like our Sheriff's Dept, they stand up for our Constitution and are very vocal about supporting our 2nd Amendment rights. In my experience, small town cops are just as bad, if not worse, than big city cops, when it comes to corruption and favoritism.