Atheism destroyed.

a reply to: johngrissom

These people do not want to hear any of this because marriage has no respect anymore, people speed, people steal, people lie, people get overly angry, people rape others, people kill others and this is just the general public, not the criminals.

Brother,

If I reach one person or make one person look into God a bit more seriously I am happy. Jesus has called me to be a fisher of men, and therefore regardless of how mean they think I am, or crazy they think I am, I will continue to love them and hope that seed takes root in their heart.

originally posted by: johngrissom
And, to contribute to the thread...it is pointless. Stop posting these kind of things. These people do not want to hear any of this because marriage has no respect anymore, people speed, people steal, people lie, people get overly angry, people rape others, people kill others and this is just the general public, not the criminals.

I mean really? Someone just killed a mother of 4 because of road rage. These people responding do not care. Let them live in their filth.

Mother of 4 killed

These things have always been. Humankind has always stolen. Humankind has always killed. Humankind has always lied. If you believe the words of your bible, you would understand that such things were laid out in its texts. Adam and Eve lied and stole. Cain murdered Abel.

You can't look down on disbelievers just because they hold a different opinion to yourself. Humankind has always acted in the manners described above, and it has nothing to do with religion or lack thereof.

It cracks me up every time I see someone rant about how bad people are and they throw in "people speed" as one of the points.


I agree that people can be horrible like the mother who killed her own children because she thought they were possessed. Horrible things have been going on for centuries though and if one wants to take the bible as a historical document thats fine but don't forget about the biblical genocides supposedly ordained from up high. Some filthy stuff in there.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb

Read my comments they all have the same point in them.

I read the first one which had no subject and no direction and wasn't related to the title or anything else for that matter. After that I stopped because I felt that was just about the laziest opening post possible. I know you can do better than that too because you've been a member here for a while. So now I refuse to continue with it. You didn't even attempt to capture the attention of anyone who chooses to read your opening post. I'll catch the next one possibly.

a reply to: Grimpachi

I believe you have some misunderstandings about why God stepped in. Besides atheist are always crying wanting God to step in and stop Evil , but when he destroys the Canaanites for burning babies hes the evil one. When He floods the world because everyone besides Noah are nephilim(look into archaeological evidence for Giants) hes the evil one...

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

It didn't happen.
The flood story is just a story, it can not and did not happen.
Do you take everything in the bible so literally? because you shouldn't.

a reply to: boymonkey74

For as many "proofs" that you can post that the flood didn't happen, we can post just as many that it did.

How can you issue forth statements like that as absolute fact?

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

So if I'm cast into hell, is there eternal hellfire and torment? Because I'm not sure that's what the Bible actually says.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Every ancient religion has a great deluge story. There are also things like fish fossils high in the mountains and poly strata forest found throughout the world. But once again this argument is going to go no where unless you can first offer a future justification for the uniformity in nature because your going to ask me for proof which proves my God exist.

a reply to: graphuto

Because my facts would be backed up by actual science and people who have studied geology for many years.
Yours would be Religious people attempting to prove the bible as an actual historic record...it isn't a very good one.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

No they have stories of local floods not global ones...to them it may as well been global but they were not.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched

And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Next.

a reply to: graphuto


Sir,
I dont see how using scripture that is subject to interpretation, answers peoples questions at all. If you want to meet people half way so they understand you, use your own words.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: Grimpachi

I believe you have some misunderstandings about why God stepped in. Besides atheist are always crying wanting God to step in and stop Evil , but when he destroys the Canaanites for burning babies hes the evil one. When He floods the world because everyone besides Noah are nephilim(look into archaeological evidence for Giants) hes the evil one...

Yes yes I know the faithful will always find a way to justify murder, mutilation, rape, incest, and genocide in their little book ordained from up high. Then they will try to tell you there is free will. The mental gymnastics never cease with that group.

A god so powerful he can kill a single guy with lightning for having too much sex but to cleanse the world including animals has to kill everything with a flood. More mental gymnastics.

Even if you take that book at face value it is a screwed up nasty piece of work. Thank god(pun) it is just a bunch of re-written stories with some dramatic flare..

BTW which skull are you naming as nephilim? And yes that is a graph in millions of years.

a reply to: tadaman

Sir,

Anyone can plainly read for themselves the plain english words that I posted from the Bible regarding the nature of hell.
Why use my own words when the Bible explains it so much better?

Also, the poster specifically asked about what the Bible says regarding hell. It isn't my intention to "meet people halfway." This isn't my thread, I'm simply here to help OP field questions relating directly to the Bible, as they're sure to come up, and the OP is actually trying to illustrate a deeper point.

Thanks though.

a reply to: graphuto

Hey, just saying

If these words inspire you, truly and your "truth" given to you with no sacrifice and work on your part is not the very thing that the Jesus preached against, then use that inspiration to meet them where they are, not where you think they should or will be.

What is a Prophet you give authority to? What are they if not someone filled with the spirit of truth that can write straight with crooked lines? What are they but the vessel of the truth poured into their hearts? You would make us think that the vessel is more important than that with which it is filled.

A charlatan, I say, if he can not teach what he learned but instead only parrot the words he found with no flowing truth to fill empty cups. Truth is fluid, living and true. Jesus didnt tell us to honor scripture blindly, he told us to understand it. He was a master of parable and allegory. His ability was not taken from some cool mathematical formula in words already written. His truth was in every moment and with all things he found around him.

I take it you know all the nuances of the holy books to profess their absolute meaning, through ages of mistranslations, marginalia errors and general creative licence?

A good "preacher" of the "word" doesnt even need a bible to exist anymore. He writes his own chapter.

If you are inspired then inspire. Dont use the rod to catch fish. Use your ability as a fisherman. The tool is irrelevant.EDIT TO ADD:Like every fish lives at different depths, in different waters and eats different bait... a good fisherman can catch any fish because he is a good fisherman regardless of the tools he uses. Like there are infinite types of rods and lines and infinite types of bait for infinite types of fish.....there are infinite truths and infinite ways to find those truths. Only a good fisherman can truly catch them. Anyone can pick up a rod. Not everyone can fish.

EDIT TO ADD:
I didnt know this was a judeao-christian thread. I do think that atheism is generally doubtful of all religion. The OP made no specific reference to anti christian atheism, if such a specific atheism can exist and not also question other faiths equally.

a reply to: boymonkey74

No they have stories of local floods not global ones...to them it may as well been global but they were not.

What historical evidence do you have that they were local floods and not all talking about the same global flood?

The Mesopotamian flood stories concern the epics of Ziusudra, Gilgamesh, and Atrahasis. In the Sumerian King List, it relies on the flood motif to divide its history into preflood and postflood periods. The preflood kings had enormous lifespans, whereas postflood lifespans were much reduced. The Sumerian flood myth found in the Deluge tablet was the epic of Ziusudra, who heard the Divine Counsel to destroy humanity, in which he constructed a vessel that delivered him from great waters.[2] In the Atrahasis version, the flood is a river flood

Notice that there is preflood history with enormous life spans(Check the Bible and watch what happens to the life spans after the flood) and postflood periods. The text most definitely describes a Global flood.

In Hindu mythology, texts such as the Satapatha Brahmana mention the puranic story of a great flood,[5] wherein the Matsya Avatar of Vishnu warns the first man, Manu, of the impending flood, and also advises him to build a giant boat

Well look at that a Big Flood and a Big Boat mentioned in Hinduism.

The stories describe a global flood not a local one.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Look into giants if you want to know about nephilim .

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: LittleByLittle

Have you noticed that many on this thread have no trouble with Jesus message and think he is a great teacher but think that Paul is a false prophet and you keep pushing that we have to have faith in Paul:s teachings because you believe in Paul:s teaching?

Have you noticed that I told them Paul's teachings can be found all the back to the OT? Paul's teachings are the exact same as CHrist teachings. If you think there is a contradiction in Scripture please share it and hopefully I can show you what you are missing in the text.

The faith alone vs faith bringing works conflict.

Jesus thru James, Matthew, Mark and Peter speak of the brotherhood of doers who show what they are thru works and that Jesus will be a sheep herder for those who do not have faith also since they are not blaspheming against the Holy Spirit by their action. By these teachings a sheep is a sheep not matter if they are atheists or whatever spiritual teaching they have gotten since the church is within not without.

Paul:s message is sometimes close to the others and the Gnostics who know the real experience but not the same and anyone who goes by faith alone will not wanna see it but wanna make the whole one message where it is logically to me not. Paul only confuse things logically for me and points me in the wrong direction from my point of view where I know true spiritual awareness is not.

When "Jesus thru James, Matthew, Mark and Peter", Buddha, Rumi, Krishna and Nanak meet at the same place of brotherhood/sisterhood (non duality) and Paul point towards ego (duality small mindedness) Paul is the one I will choose not to listen to.

Meditation and light flowing (symbiotic infusing light into earth) is the path I am on. On that path the bigger pictures are revealed and the spirit speak thru all religions and even science.

Namaste

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: Grimpachi

I believe you have some misunderstandings about why God stepped in. Besides atheist are always crying wanting God to step in and stop Evil

Ok. That there kind of made me grind my teeth.
It seems you take the view that atheists have no morals. To paint others like that is pretty offensive I must say, but if that's what you feel then obviously atheists have a long way to go at convincing you of their ways...

Which will never happen, why? Because it's as simple as there being no God to them. There's no book of rules to tell them how to live. They learnt from parents, schools and society how to behave and have morals. Morality of being good towards others I hope is largely ingrained in the majority of all races, religions or lack thereof.


I love this line from Tim Minchin:
Science adjusts its views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved.

That quote is rather powerful in it's message. It sums up this whole argument that with science, we can move those goal posts about and put them where our observations fit. Science can be tested by anyone (with correct tools) worldwide to confirm what we know and brilliant scientists look deeper and find more "whys and hows" and some cause massives shifts. It's unfairly easy for a scientist....

For those following ancient scripts, you are locked. Set in concrete. That does have to be a hard place from which to fight your battle, you have my sympathies there.

And I conclude, that thrusting my views on to you must make you grind your teeth also. But trust I am moral, and wish you no bad feelings or ill will.


For the context of the Tim Minchin quote you can watch this YouTube Video, I won't embed it because it does contain some strong language.
I also urge you to not watch it though because you might find his views offensive based on this threads topic, but others in the thread might like some better context for the quote and may enjoy his banter as I do.