Atheism destroyed.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: tothetenthpower
You say you believe the world is governed by the Laws of nature, and all that is is matter and chemicals. Matter and Chemicals don't produce truth.

Matter IS the truth. Because that's all there is.

a reply to: ThomasFL72

why is it so hard that believing in something other than yourself.

I never said I don't believe in things other than myself thats just you projecting your own thoughts.

AND THAT EXACTLY WHAT UR PROBLEM IS : YOU HAVE NO FAITH IN ANYTHING OR PLAUSIBILITY OF TRUSTING NO ONE NOT EVEN IN YOURSELF.

You read one post from me and you think you know me well enough to claim to know my problems. LOL

FYI it is a bit difficult for me to read stuff when you leave the caps lock on and don't type out your words. That sometimes gives me a headache besides I think spelling out words is important on a good site like this.

jUST KNOW THAT I HAVE FAITH IN GOD TO HELP YOU THE DAY U REALIZE THERE IS A GOD U WONT . YOU WILL BE IN SO MUCH DISBELIEF THEN U WILL REALIZE THERE IS A GOD AND WELL I WILL PRAY FOR YOU EVEN IF U DONT WANT ME TO

It's a free country you can pray for whatever you wan't or wish upon a star if you desire just please don't knock on my door Saturdays to tell me about god that tends to piss me off.

Anyway I have looked into the possibility of god before as I am sure most people on this planet have so I hope you don't hold your breath on me believing one day. Baring some personal appearance or somthing along those lines I can tell you it just isn't going to happen.

a reply to: smithjustinb

If you can't prove it, you can't know. There is always room for doubt if things aren't proven. Delusion is believing things that aren't true. Believing things that you can't prove to be true is foolishness and leaves you vulnerable to delusion. Delusion is a mental health issue not to be taken lightly. I've explored all sorts of philosophical and religious beliefs and I'd come on ATS and share my beliefs. Then, I realized that I don't really know what is going on in this world. Contradicting philosophies can each make logical sense. So, there's no way of knowing the truth. I'm agnostic. I believe that if there is a supreme being in this universe, he, she, or it doesn't care if I go blindly believing if it exists or not. I think that if there is a God, God would want me to use logic and math to explore the world and learn by examining facts- not fairy tales.

You just like everyone so far are talking about proof, and yet you have no ultimate justification for things like the laws of logic and uniformity in nature. As an agnostic until you decide that the Supernatural is what created this world you are grounded in a materialistic view of the world and therefore view yourself as evolved star dust moving about in a time and chance universe. For example, as an atheist how do you justify the statement that the past will be like the future and there is uniformity in nature. To do math you must assume that 2+2 always equals 4, but as a bag of chemical just fizzing you could fizz differently tomorrow and 2+2 could equal 5. When a person rejects the notion of God they are reduced to a place the Bible calls foolishness as there is no way to justify anything.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: igloo

Why the need to "destroy" atheism/ other's beliefs if your Christianity is so rock solid? We all fizz differently!

I am not really here to destroy atheism, but I wanted to make sure to attract atheist honestly. If your a fisherman looking for fish its always good to have nice bait, and I don't do it out of hatred I do it because I love all humans and I don't want anyone to go to hell.

As for fizzing that is an atheistic view of the world, I personally believe every person has intrinsic worth.

You want to attract atheists into engaging in an honest debate, but you use a sensational title to do it?

This thread has achieved nothing, and will achieve nothing. The questions posed by members here are legitimate questions, and all you have to give is that the questioning members are of an 'atheistic world view'. If you can't answer the questions, you will not be converting anyone here today.

I think you're on the backpedal now.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

kk first off what kind of God are you referring to. Creator of the human race? Or Creator of the universe? because those are not linked together with one entity. If anything. It would be a title a human would give to their creator. A Title can be a name with some truth but with exaduration.

Such as a soldier in the army being given the title Death Bringer or something. Private, ltn, Coneral, General, pace maker, ambassador ect ect. The bible was really good at giving titles to people and things as a type of overhyperactive exaduration.

But since we are including the whole of humanity here there is bound to be someone devoted to brown nosing upper management.

That's all the bible really is, Also the political and social issues the people experienced at the time.
Nowadays what of the mormons? lol. Or the Jehova Witnesses? Scientologists? hypothetically speaking, if they were to survive 2000 years would they claim absolution as well?

Look at all the *Schizophrenic* posts we see about people saying they hear voices and have invisible entities command their bodies and are cast away by the name Jesus. I wouldn't doubt some people of similar mind wrote those pages.
and it was based on a close knit community that was taking copywritten material from Alexandria to forge their own religion seperate from the Jews.they Called Neo-jesuites. The Rightious Teacher was a guy who claimed to be Jesus's brother along with a couple other people who *witnessed* Jesus's resurection.

These people horded scrolls in the caves by the Dead sea. That's where the Old Testament Torahs were found in 1943 during WW2 Along with several other non torah scripts written by the folk who lived there.

They were fanatics. A seperate sect of judasim building upon it's own messiah like figure. Paul got into a debate with James at the temple steps in jerusalem. Where pope clemintine at the time saw the conflict on the temple steps where he threw him down.

Watch this.

a reply to: daaskapital

You want to attract atheists into engaging in an honest debate, but you use a sensational title to do it? This thread has achieved nothing, and will achieve nothing. The questions posed by members here are legitimate questions, and all you have to give is that the questioning members are of an 'atheistic world view'. If you can't answer the questions, you will not be converting anyone here today.

First I have said a lot more than the members are of the atheistic world view, but they keep asking me for proof which requires me to assume the they believe in the laws of logic are universal and that the past will be like the future, but all atheist are grounded in naturalism/reductionism and therefore act as they act because of chemical reactions occurring in a time and chance universe and have no way of justifying universals or for justifying how they know the past will always be like the future.

a reply to: smithjustinb

Matter IS the truth. Because that's all there is.

Are the laws of logic matter? Can you touch one? Drink one? Smell One? Truth is abstract, and only exist in a theistic world view, because as you have just proven those without God think that matter is all there is.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: daaskapital

You want to attract atheists into engaging in an honest debate, but you use a sensational title to do it? This thread has achieved nothing, and will achieve nothing. The questions posed by members here are legitimate questions, and all you have to give is that the questioning members are of an 'atheistic world view'. If you can't answer the questions, you will not be converting anyone here today.

First I have said a lot more than the members are of the atheistic world view, but they keep asking me for proof which requires me to assume the they believe in the laws of logic are universal and that the past will be like the future, but all atheist are grounded in naturalism/reductionism and therefore act as they act because of chemical reactions occurring in a time and chance universe and have no way of justifying universals or for justifying how they know the past will always be like the future.

But you are passing me off as a dumb ass! Not even good enough to be an atheists.
And I have faith..

G'Zus!

Atheism destroyed? nope far from it.
Now religion can be destroyed and shown as BS because of the fact it is all man made...not from god.
You can not prove the existence of God but we can prove the BS lies of religion.
Your club is nothing to do with God and is a waste of your own energy.

Biggest troll thread of the week tbh so expect people biting.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: smithjustinb

Matter IS the truth. Because that's all there is.

Are the laws of logic matter? Can you touch one? Drink one? Smell One? Truth is abstract, and only exist in a theistic world view, because as you have just proven those without God think that matter is all there is.

OK OK... no I have never seen a thousand dollar bill. But they did exist..

To me god is energy.. god is..
But your saying god is completely abstract? But real?

Also what is the point of this thread?
You are not going to change anyones mind here but If it was a thread about how religion is BS you would change some religious peoples minds when they are shown the facts.
Happens everyday..people leave religion and get closer to god...try it sometime OP.

a reply to: daaskapital

The problem here is that you are using the bible as a historical document, as if it is a legitimate book portraying legitimate history.

Actually I am using the Bible as a set of historical documents. The documents were all written and claim to be describing real events. They are not written as a work of fiction. THe problem with this statement is you have no historical reason to reject them as historical documents especially with all the archaeological evidence backing it up. Whenever someone questions whether something happened in the Bible evidence always turns up somewhere. The Hitties and King David were called fictitious for years until evidence was found of both of them.

I will admit there are somethings we dont have evidence for. for example the exodus, but that was a long time ago and saying that Science needs more time is perfectly ok in my opinion as I gave you two examples above that only came to be know as fact some 200 years ago.

No Pauls writings dont bother me, as I said all of his teachings can be found in the OT.

First off being an atheist doesn't mean you have a strictly materialistic view of the world. The only thing atheist means is you lack a belief in a God. That's it. It should be extremely easy to understand. Since people are not all the same, it's not surprising that atheists are not all the same. The one thing all atheists have in common though, is their lack of belief in a God.

Secondly, to throw a wrench in the "logic" that something can't come from nothing therefor God. It is a logical fallacy. If our existence and intelligence demands a creator, than how much more intelligent must the creators mind be? So intelligent, that it too demands an explanation for its existence. Of course, we would then need to demand an explanation for God's God. And God's God's God. An so on.. Here is a nice little cartoon to illustrate.


I was going to respond to the OP and share more of my reasons for not believing in his God. There are more than I can count. Some have been brought up already. But since I don't feel the OP has addressed some points brought up on page one, I'm not holding my breath that any sound attempt to destroy atheism will be made. So I leave with a link to one of my favorite shows. Where instead of atheists professing what they believe to have it destroyed, theists do.

Atheist Experience

Enjoy.

Btw, science doesn't make the claim everything came from nothing.
Sometimes it's ok to just say, "We don't know."

a reply to: boymonkey74

Biggest troll thread of the week tbh so expect people biting.

Yeah I agree but it can be fun to see what they will try next.

The OP even admitted to trolling with the thread title but who cares we all know how these things work. I have seen worse here. Hell my post was skipped altogether by the OP even though I answered the questions.

a reply to: Bigburgh

But your saying god is completely abstract? But real?

He is Spirit. Spirit is not physical so in a sense I suppose abstract would be a word you could use.

OK OK... no I have never seen a thousand dollar bill. But they did exist..

Regardless if you have seen one are not, we know that they are physical and can be held, but we only know that because we can deduce that logically. The laws of logic are not something tangible ever. So you really kind of attacked a strawman there.

ServantOfTheLamb.

Have you noticed that many on this thread have no trouble with Jesus message and think he is a great teacher but think that Paul is a false prophet and you keep pushing that we have to have faith in Paul:s teachings because you believe in Paul:s teaching?

You have to accept that people will not listen to Paul over Jesus no matter how much you can ignore the contradictions in the bible that some people here can clearly see and therefore reject the christian faith since it follows Paul not Jesus teachings.

Take it as a win that many see Jesus message for what it is and love Jesus for his message and that he made the fall to earth to give it in a time when it was needed.

You will not win the Paul argument with souls who have more spiritual experiences since they understand more than Paul taught.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: smithjustinb

You just like everyone so far are talking about proof, and yet you have no ultimate justification for things like the laws of logic and uniformity in nature...

For example, as an atheist how do you justify the statement that the past will be like the future and there is uniformity in nature.

Logic is justified by its ability to predict future events through examining past trends.

To do math you must assume that 2+2 always equals 4, but as a bag of chemical just fizzing you could fizz differently tomorrow and 2+2 could equal 5.

That is absurd and makes no sense. This is an example of that delusional thing I was talking about. Case in point. What you just said is a great example of how logic justifies itself by showing how incoherent thinking can be when it is absent.

The bottom line is, the application of logic and objective reasoning in this world is the only way that someone can communicate facts. If you're not using logic and objective reasoning in your thought process, you literally make no sense. What is real is this world. If you think there is something else besides this world, your mind is not rooted in the truth. It is rooted in fantasy. And fear. The facts are the facts and they are the facts because they are observable. God is not observable. You may have had experiences, as have I, but, I can't prove or make myself believe that those experiences weren't just hallucinations from a deluded and unbalanced brain chemistry. People who are less rooted in the facts of this world are susceptible to hallucinations, delusion, and other mental issues. So, logic is justified by the fact that it is the only thing standing between you and a mental illness.

When a person rejects the notion of God they are reduced to a place the Bible calls foolishness as there is no way to justify anything.

So, for rejecting the bible, I'm a fool because the Bible says so? I reject that idea. I argue that only the fool believes in what can't be proven or seen. The sane person only believes in what he has seen or in what he can logically deduce is a logical possibility and probability.

As an agnostic until you decide that the Supernatural is what created this world you are grounded in a materialistic view of the world and therefore view yourself as evolved star dust moving about in a time and chance universe.

So?

a reply to: boymonkey74

How do you intend to prove the lies from my religion? Are you going to use logic cause surely you have read enough of my post to know that your stealing from the theistic world view.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: smithjustinb

Matter IS the truth. Because that's all there is.

Are the laws of logic matter?

There's no such thing as "the laws of logic". But, yes, matter behaves logically and is mathematically predictable. Matter is right in front of your face. Why are you arguing against it? How can you argue against what is in front of you, in favor of something no one can see?

Can you touch one? Drink one? Smell One? Truth is abstract, and only exist in a theistic world view, because as you have just proven those without God think that matter is all there is.

I only know what I know. How you know what you don't know is beyond me.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: Bigburgh

But your saying god is completely abstract? But real?

He is Spirit. Spirit is not physical so in a sense I suppose abstract would be a word you could use.

OK OK... no I have never seen a thousand dollar bill. But they did exist..

Regardless if you have seen one are not, we know that they are physical and can be held, but we only know that because we can deduce that logically. The laws of logic are not something tangible ever. So you really kind of attacked a strawman there.

Actually I only knew by "word of mouth" that the thousand dollar bill existed..
But enough people insisted it exist..
So I put faith into that "word of mouth account"