Do you believe in a certain man?

I am making this thread to explore the thought of metaphors in the word of GOD. When we look at many of the parables in the bible that Jesus spoke he often speaks of a certain man.

King James Bible He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree
planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.

King James Bible Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain
man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far ...

And he said, A certain man had two sons: And the younger of them said to his
father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he.

In the Gospel of Luke, the parable is introduced by a question, known as the ...
Jesus answered, "A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and
...

“There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and
fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, ...

I am suggesting that the certain man was a real man or men and not just a blank in a parable. I believe all this points to something such as metafor's being indeed accounts of events as well as lessons for us and they were not just fiction from GOD. Of coarse this would only apply to believers because to unbelievers it is mostly or all fiction so there is no need for the GOD is a lie debate here unless i have missed some important fact from the nonbelievers side that needs to be brought to the debate.

Meta= above or beyond
note it does not mean outside of truth or inside fiction

It was this guy.

a reply to: deadeyedick
Look in more modern translations (always a good idea) and the word "certain" is not there. It's just "a man" each time.

Of coarse this would only apply to believers because to unbelievers it is mostly or all fiction so there is no need for the GOD is a lie debate here unless i have missed some important fact from the nonbelievers side that needs to be brought to the debate.

Agreed. These are the kinds of religious threads I like. No proselytizing. No calling out the heathens, etc. Just a discussion of content, in this case, from a textual perspective.

I am suggesting that the certain man was a real man or men and not just a blank in a parable. I believe all this points to something such as metafor's being indeed accounts of events as well as lessons for us and they were not just fiction from GOD.

I agree with this. When I was a xtian, I always thought Jesus might have been referencing actual events, and the names of those involved were unimportant to the point of the story. Hence, "a certain man."
It's not unlike we all do, when we give examples of incidents that have either happened to us, or someone we know to make a point. S&F

I am thinking that the man could be the same man in all accounts or as some believe the same man incarnating over and over and putting all the stories together may paint a picture of something greater than a single account being told when they are all in the right context.

I've always felt that all of the born, dying, and rising gods were manifestations of the same process, message, and mechanism. Here are some "rival" claims to divinity. But what if they are not rivals? Simply the manifestation of the same force over and over again? It's manifested, through a person through every culture around the world. The same archetype over and over again. All manifestations of One force, for all people all across the world. Each individual manifestation in each society, connected to their heritage by the person who rose to connect to the One divinity. There is the variation. But the message, is always constant, no matter which Avatar below you might, or might not, prescribe to.

Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, Osiris, Odin, Zorastra, Bali, Quetzlcoatl, Mohammed, Adonis, Indra, Thammuz....

CdT

a reply to: CirqueDeTruth

I have found that to be true but what many people are unaware of is that in the end only one of these will complete the wall and the others become false paths at that point. While it is good to study and find what they all point too the system is set up to have one that is accepted by all. he point is that they have been going through the fire just as us and we will be left to decide in the end who encompasses all the corners of creation. Who is greater the clothes or the man wearing the clothes.

To me with what i know the reason for all the different heads coming short while one suceeds is because of all the unknown factors from region to region. It boils down to alchemy and the power to control or destroy the world. There is a balence in nature that varies from region to region and while one set of rituals may be safe for one enviroment they are detremental to the rest of the world so a new chapter was then started in an effort to control how we use nature. While the spiritual aspects of one religion may do well in explaining a path at the same time if practiced in other regions it could end all life. So tthat religion is then deemed false because of unknown dangers. Then we come along with our half understandings and we fail to see any problems with a false religion simply because we are not givin that knowledge that could end all.

I challenge everyone to show me for my benefit where in the bible it says to not take the words literly and that parts of it are just made up to give meaning to other parts.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
I challenge everyone to show me for my benefit where in the bible it says to not take the words literly and that parts of it are just made up to give meaning to other parts.

This here would cause too many questions rather than answers. From the standpoint of including it.

a reply to: jhill76

questions can lead to answers if we let the spirit of God guide us. i like your tempered answer though.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
I challenge everyone to show me for my benefit where in the bible it says to not take the words literly and that parts of it are just made up to give meaning to other parts.

Here is one verse that suggests that:

"This is why I speak to them in parables: "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving." - Matthew 13:13-14

a reply to: arpgme

that is a parable and not a fable

to try to expound on the scripture i would say that he used true events that they could relate to in order to gain better understanding. like saying remember that one time... this time is like that

I HIGHLY doubt that any words that Jesus spoke were not based in truth or real events. It just seems too far out of character.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: jhill76

questions can lead to answers if we let the spirit of God guide us. i like your tempered answer though.

Yes, true. Thus these types of answers come from above, and is not written. Somehow, Father takes pride when some seek out, rather than just take what is given.

a reply to: deadeyedick

originally posted by: deadeyedick
that is a parable and not a fable

From Webster's Dictionary:

"Parable noun \ˈpa-rə-bəl\ : a short story that teaches a moral or spiritual lesson; especially : one of the stories told by Jesus Christ and recorded in the Bible"

A parable is just a short story used to teach a lesson. You do have a point, though. It doesn't necessarily have to be a made up story.

With that being said, if the Bible is supposed to be taken literally, then when Jesus said that his flesh is bread and we have to eat it to live forever, then was this literally? Did Jesus literally want people to engage in cannibalism to eat his body?

"I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. - John 6:51

a reply to: arpgme

That is what i see. If it was not the case then a fable and a parable would be the same. If you go through the various definitions of parable you will find that most say that it is based in truth and none i found point to any fiction in a parable. Even the place you copied that definition from says that it is based in truth if you read further or at least i seen those same words in that order with based in truth added.

If what i said is true then that would mean that the verse you graciously put is based in truth. Sounds very unlikely since other verses tell us that cannibalism is wrong so then what are we missing? My thoughts is that we lack understanding of the full meaning of the first fruits and the spiritual relationship we have with plants and animals. We are the plants and animals. Jesus is the firstborn over all creation. We have to take that literal in order to follow my line of reasoning. How many of us are ever questioning the orgin and order of our foods. Hardly none. However if one goes back and studies the ole testament then you find that they were following the prder of birth more than us. By no means do i think i have it figured out yet but i feel that the choice i have made to prove that Jesus never made anything up and that the bible is written in a way that even an uneducated child could pick it up and know the truth of GOD i will someday be justified. I strongly feel that GOD resides in truth that went missing when the laungauge was babbled and understanding was taken from us. If i am wrong about this and lies are found to be scattered in the word then i will hand over any power i have to satan himself and throw my hands in the air and ask father why have you forsaken humanity.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
If i am wrong about this and lies are found to be scattered in the word then i will hand over any power i have to satan himself and throw my hands in the air and ask father why have you forsaken humanity.

Even if there are mistakes in the bible, that doesn't mean that God has forsaken humanity. It simply means what we have already know: that humans sometimes make mistakes even while writing.

There are contradictions in the bible, for example...

There is a contradiction about the time Jesus was crucified:

"And it was the third hour, and they crucified him. " - Mark 15:25

"And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar. Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. " - John 19:14-16

Also...

there is a contradiction about whether Lebbaeus-Thaddeus or Judas The Brother of James was one of the 12 apostles.

Matthew and Mark says that Lebbaeus (whose surname is Thaddeus) was one of the 12 apostles of Jesus Christ:

Matthew 10:2-4/Mark 3:16-19

but in Luke and Acts it doesn't mention Lebbaeus-Thaddeus but instead says that Judas the brother of James was one of the 12:

Luke 6:14-16/Acts 1:13

All of the other 11 of the 12 apostles are the same but there is a contradiction between whether Lebbaeus-Thaddeus was an actual apostle of the 12 or Judas the brother of James.


According to Mark, Jesus said no signs will be given:

"And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation. " - Mark 8:12

but in the next few chapters, they preached the word and signs were given:

"And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. " - Mark 16:20

a reply to: arpgme

that is all just bs misunderstandings not contridictions. I have delved into the topics you suggest. They have all been on discussed on ats before. It boils down to opening the door for saying that the word is flawed and i don't buy that junk. It is our understanding that is flawed and these small test just pave the way for disbelief.

What you are pointing to is that because you have taken certain parts and deem them untrue or mistranslated then a that point any part of the bible can be labeled the same way as soon as understanding is not found in us. Next thing that happens you find some that only believe in a small part. It is a slippery slope and is wiser to point the finger at ourselves instead of the word.

I do say thank you for even engauging me in this little challenge i posed. I take the results to show that i am possibly the last person on earth that believes that the word is true however i would go as far as to say that perhaps in translation we may find a word or two mispelled somewhere but honestly i have not so far in my bible.

Does Jesus love the children? One has to have the mind of a child to fully understand what i am saying and my GOD does not trick them with a book full of lies. When we grow older and begin to learn of the supposed misguidings we are debating here is when we fail ourselves through proper understandings of todays literary devices. I will stake my life on this. Stand me up at the gates of hell and i will proclaim this. MY GOD IS TRUTH

a reply to: deadeyedick

that is all just bs misunderstandings not contridictions.

So I misunderstood how Jesus was crucified on the third hour (Mark 15:25) AND the sixth hour (John 19:14-16 )? Was he crucified twice? If not, then that is a contradiction, not a misunderstanding.