Sign of the Virgin and Immanuel

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance:

Immanuel
From im and 'el with a pronominal suffix inserted; with us (is) God; Immanuel, a type name of Isaiah's son -- Immanuel.

Immanuel is the name Isaiah is given for his son, who king Ahaz prophesied would be conceived by העלמה or "Ha'Alma" lit. "The Virgin" (note: not a virgin, but the virgin). I believe this is actually a prophecy with a date reference showing Isaiah's son, who apparently was named Immanuel and whose birth was a prophecy of the Messiah, and will be conceived in Virgo (lit. "The Virgin") and born nine months later, in Gemini. The Twins, or as Ahaz says, when two enemy kings will be conquered: שני מלכיה or "Shinaj Malakiha" meaning 'The two kings' (excuse my Hebrew vocalisation, this is how I say it, it doesn't necessarily conform to modern spelling, that's why I don't use the niqquds).

Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel […] For before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land whose two kings you dread will be deserted.[ESV] Isaiah 7:14,16

The verse above is used in the NT to somehow prove that Mary was a virgin and that her son's name Jesus would somehow fulfill some magic prophecy in Isaiah where king Ahaz foresees the birth of Isaiah's son who is given the symbolic name Immanuel. That Jesus is somehow a mystical translation of Immanuel. I'd say bollocks. Immanuel isn't Jesus, he is Jesus' son. Now, I already explained the part about Virgo and Gemini, that leaves us with the name Immanuel, and why on Earth did Joseph call his son's name Jesus, if his dream said to call him Immanuel?There is a rather obvious answer, and there is a reason for it, carry on.

עמנו אל hrIMaNU-EL

This is where it gets sort of weird, the linguistics involved with names and naming is one of surprises, magic and general strangeness, and right away you know that you are entering the world of anachronisms and, well, madness really, the supposed rules for names and naming are about as rational as string theory and about as difficult to explain sensibly. But there are a few things I would like to say about the name Immanuel.

The first two letters (reading from right to left) עמ is spelled out /im/ ("eem") in Aramaic and it is a preposition which means 'Like' or 'Similar to', while the Hebrew equivalent means 'Against' or 'Before' or 'Beside'. Also most people would identify the last syllable of the name Immanuel, אל /el/ which besides being the name of a Canaanite god, El "The Father of the Seven" supposedly also refer to the god of the Levite priesthood.

That leaves us with two syllables between Im and El. Which is An-u. Now, my Hebrew is not a language I know as well as I should, and I would love to hear someone explain this differently, and the following is perhaps more Lalalaish than Hebrew, but I can't fail to spot yet another god's name here. Anu, the Mesopotamian sky deity, father of the Annunaki. Bringer of the Flood.

Anyway, this analysis, given the literal madness involved with names and naming, 'Beside Anu El' sounds more like it, "Beside Heaven's Father" given Anu can be from Akkadian "Heaven's". rather than the official 'God With Us' we are usually told. My alternative rendition is also reflecting Psalm 110 which is also given in NT as some messianic prophecy of Jesus:

The LORD says to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.” [ESV] Psalms 110:1

The alternative 'Alike Anu-El' can also be a riddle, or the key to a cypher. Perhaps a hint to Akkadian dual reading of the Cuneiform spelling An can also be read as El (or /il/ to be specific)?:

en.wikipedia.org...

In Sumerian, the designation "An" was used interchangeably with "the heavens" so that in some cases it is doubtful whether, under the term, the god An or the heavens is being denoted. The Akkadians inherited An as the god of heavens from the Sumerian as Anu-, and in Akkadian cuneiform, the DINGIR character may refer either to Anum or to the Akkadian word for god, ilu-, and consequently had two phonetic values an and il. Hittite cuneiform as adapted from the Old Assyrian kept the an value but abandoned il.

Did Joseph call his son Jeshua, to fulfill the prophecy in Isaiah about his son, as if it says his name will be like Isaiah, only think like An and El in Akkadian: Isaiah Jeshua, write those in Hebrew: while ישעיה JeS-AJaH means "salvation of Yah" — ישוע JeShUA means "Yah is salvation". They are basically the same name but only spelled in different stages of Hebrew/Aramaic. So maybe NT's mention of Isaiah's naming of Immanuel is relevant to the naming of Jesus, but not to Immanuel (or the Messiah), but to his father (as in Father of the Messiah), Isaiah. The way I see it Isaiah 7:14 is a prophecy of the Millennium King, the Conquering Messiah, also the son of Jesus. Jesus is not the Messiah, his son is.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

People are too enamored by heroes. I think if we stopped being so focused on kings, priests, celebrities, heroes, bosses, elders, etc ad nauseum, we could channel a bit of light into our own lives, making our selves the central stage of our universes. The coming of the messiah has never been set in stone, and when/if he comes, his destiny won't be determined by any seers. I think our best bet is to run the clock out on this game and push things into overtime. Eventually, humankind will evolve enough to overcome the need for hierarchy. When that finally happens, there'll be no need for us to anoint anyone with snake oil.

Are you implying that Jesus was God? Because God's son is supposed to be the messiah and you say Jesus' son is the messiah.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Are you implying that Jesus was God? Because God's son is supposed to be the messiah and you say Jesus' son is the messiah.

Yes, who are gods if not heroes conquering death and beating the devil for starters? The Apocalypse says Jesus is the Father and God of the Messiah. The Church ignores this part. They ignore "The Truth" which is a name for this Messiah who will rule the world with a bat in his hand and destroy nations like pottery. This character is not Jesus. It is his son:

The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. [ESV] Revelation 21:7

Jesus was named after Isaiah, not Immanuel. And it is Immanuel (son of Isaiah) who is the symbolical Messiah, not Isaiah. Get it?

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Got it.

Thanks for clearing that up, I was only wondering. Carry on.

originally posted by: Nechash
Eventually, humankind will evolve enough to overcome the need for hierarchy. When that finally happens, there'll be no need for us to anoint anyone with snake oil.

Hehe, snake oil? As in petrol? Atleast use lamp-oil, you don't want to hurt yourself

This is a sidetrack, but this makes me think of the story of when Thor and some Jotun were out fishing in the North Sea, and when they found the right spot, Thor tossed in a hook with the head of an ox as bait, and the Midgard Serpent bit, and Thor then struck his feet and legs through the boat and down until they stood on the seabed and he pulled the ancient monster up and was just about to smack it in the head with Mjolnir when that lousy Jotun cut the tackle. Thor was so angry that he waded ashore.

North Sea Oil? Midgards Serpent? Feet on the floor of the North Sea, ey Platforms? Rotten dinos and vegetation from the Jura age? Anyone? Nah, like I said, a sidetrack, but it sort of came off the top of my head when you wrote 'snake oil'.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

You liked that? Yeah, it was a stretch, but I thought it has potential. ;p I like that one eyed guy from the Viking tales. My left eye gets all twitchy when I think about losing an eye, but I hear it has benefits in certain kingdoms... That is the amazing thing about heroes back then, they didn't fight monsters to save people, they fought monsters to test themselves. Something is very poetically romantic about that idea to me.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Ok. With that in mind, that Immanuel is a prophecy about a son of Jesus -- Why does the Church teach that Jesus was the result of obvious impossibilities, like a virgin giving birth outside on the coldest and darkest day of the year? Or why is it so important for the Church that Jesus never married, and never had any children? The Latinised Jesus they teach in Church is the Beast itself, it is not Jeshua, who is the classical Homer style hero-turned-god, father of the messiah. The Bible and Jesus is a riddle, a mystery, and the Church is obviously working against its very core principles its goal and purpose.

a reply to: Nechash

Eventually, humankind will evolve enough to overcome the need for hierarchy.

Has there ever been any sign of such a thing? The only hope for it would be if mankind were to be changed genetically but then the ones doing the changing would only make slaves of everyone else.

a reply to: Char-Lee

Our social structures have been getting progressively more heterarchic every year since Egypt. Today, there are even some companies without any job titles whatsoever where people break up into teams, vote on budgets and salaries, and everything is largely spontaneous and in a constant state of flux. Natural hierarchies emerge on a per project basis as the person with the most skills in that given task takes on a temporary position of leadership, but there aren't the kind of strict command and class structures that we've seen in traditional companies. I think this type of social organization could spread out into the political realm as well. Maybe some day, the the duties of the presidency could be decentralized and we could all take turns getting things done so that way no one person becomes a static center of power or authority.

a reply to: Nechash

Yes, there are quite a few other gods and heroes in this world. To me these ancient hierarchies and power structures, with their pantheons and astrology, their elements and esoteria, to me they are worth the while studying. Harvest is over for now. I don't envy the one who has to run the grapes, outside the City. Enough was enough I suppose. Time to pack up and move on perhaps. Wonder how this ebola mess turns out. Syria. Russia. We need heroes. We need our imaginary manifestations to guide us, if you put sense into it it makes sense, and often in war and times of hardship that stuff is worth gold and tons of quid pro quo karma medpacks, religion or like Sun Tsu calls it 'the moral law' makes people act in unison and complain less, daring more and being more considerate to his fellow soldiers. It has it's pros, as well as the cons you mention. Just saying, that's all.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I'll continue studying. I'll never stop studying so long as I have breath in me. That is core to my inherent nature. Ebola ain't nothing but a thing, 5,000 dead is less than what influenza will take in this upcoming flu season in this country alone. My prediction is it fizzles out and goes back to another decade of dormancy. We've had enough death for 10,000 lifetimes. No need to live through that nightmare.

I think the main problems humanity is facing are solvable, even our population growth can stabilize through better access to birth control and a higher standard of living for everyone. Food can be solved through aquaculture. Water can be solved through advances in filtration which have already been made, we just need to start implementing them on a larger scale.

One good thing about the rat race is it seems people caught in its wheel don't have time for babies, and 99% of people couldn't live a freeform life right now, they are too conditioned to the model of being told what to do/think. While everyone everywhere is enjoying a higher standard of prosperity, maybe just a few of us can break away from this model and begin to understand the true potential of living a creative heterarchic life: a renaissance without upheaval. Imagine that. ;p

isai-AYAH
isai-EA
= enki

son of anu.

solved. hehe

oh oh it's like it's saying yah-a-yah
which is like ea ea or ayah ayah or hayah (asher) hayah

immanuel = ayil = ea-il = enki-el.
ayil=ram

el became the generic god word in mesopotamia, as it descended from il (enlil)

originally posted by: undo
isai-AYAH
isai-EA
= enki

son of anu.

solved. hehe

Please go on. Who would the son of Anu be who would fit the role of the Son-of-Jesus-Messiah? You know brazen legs, sharp tongue, the archetypical King of Kings among the sons of Anu? Any ideas that pop up right there?

reposting my edit

oh oh it's like it's saying yah-a-yah
which is like ea ea or ayah ayah or hayah (asher) hayah

immanuel = ayil = ea-il = enki-el.
ayil=ram

el became the generic god word in mesopotamia, as it descended from il (enlil)

a reply to: Nechash

The silence of the lambs is loud these days. There's someone going somewhere in a blizzard, cane in hand and he goes inside a mountain and snow falls down and close the door. I'm afraid whet's coming next may be The Mother Load. The Last Exchange. The War To End All Wars. Bet it'll be boring too. You go to bed on a Friday and by Sunday USA and Russia is toast together with select cities around the world. And the whole world in near total darkness. Bombed flat. All in a few days.

originally posted by: undo
reposting my edit

oh oh it's like it's saying yah-a-yah
which is like ea ea or ayah ayah or hayah (asher) hayah

immanuel = ayil = ea-il = enki-el.
ayil=ram

el became the generic god word in mesopotamia, as it descended from il (enlil)

Though I am not quite sure to make of it, this does make sense with the obvious similarities between the Akkadian word for god /ilu/ corresponding to the Hebrew word for god אלוה /eloa/

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I had a similar vision once about rapid change in this world. It went something like this: *just one small change in one line of code and...*

a reply to: Nechash

Thinking of when Jehu wiped out Baal from Israel and when Samson turned over the pillar. The Mark. The Film. Gathering a great convention under one roof, and then let the whole place cave in and fall to ruins.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: undo
reposting my edit

oh oh it's like it's saying yah-a-yah
which is like ea ea or ayah ayah or hayah (asher) hayah

immanuel = ayil = ea-il = enki-el.
ayil=ram

el became the generic god word in mesopotamia, as it descended from il (enlil)

Though I am not quite sure to make of it, this does make sense with the obvious similarities between the Akkadian word for god /ilu/ corresponding to the Hebrew word for god אלוה /eloa/

immanuel - ayil, that is the ram

the ram is a male ADULT sheep.
so the lamb is the ram while the year is still young.
the ram is the lamb, grown to adulthood
egyptian version = khnum/khem -god of creation who fashioned man from the mud of the nile
khem=ham. h-am, i think is a variant of h-adam, which is also atem and atum or just plain tem/tm.
atum (adam) = god of creation