Not ONE person has been held accountable

The one thing I have found astonishing since September 11 is that no one in the government has been held accountable for anything up to this point. I'm not just talking about 9/11, I'm talking about the prisoner abuse scandal, the WMD's, the War in Iraq, still not being able to find Bin Laden, the Anthrax attacks. Does anyone agree? All I see are resignations. And you know what's funny? They all are resigning solely for personal reasons. Your thoughts?

Because it can't be pinned on just one person. Take the prison scandal for example: What happened there was just a couple boneheads goofing off. You can't hold the government responsible for that, unless you want government officials at every prison in the world holding the hands of people who work there. Even the immediate supervisors of those who did that can't truly be held accountable, because they can't be there 24 hours a day. You just can't hold the entire system responsible for the mistakes of a few.

They have "passing the buck" down as a fine art. One of their
rules must be "deny, deny, deny" and "never admit to anything".

Originally posted by Jaruseleh
Because it can't be pinned on just one person.

Of course not. I know more than just one person is responsible for these mistakes. What I'm saying is no one has been held accountable for anything regardless.

You just can't hold the entire system responsible for the mistakes of a few.

Who said anything about holding the entire systems accountable? I'm talking about those who made the serious mistakes.

Well, the GI's at the prison are being held accountable. They are on trial for court marshal, and will probably spend the next few years in levenworth.

Originally posted by Jaruseleh
Because it can't be pinned on just one person. Take the prison scandal for example: What happened there was just a couple boneheads goofing off.

Actually their defense was that they were instructed to do that stuff by upperlevel interrogators. Those people have not been brought in nor charged.

You just can't hold the entire system responsible for the mistakes of a few.

Also, as the poster noted, people have been held responsible. Whats the punishment for being 'responsible' in teh sense of dereliction for 911? Its not illegal to be incompetent. The FBI CIA and other intelligence agenices are being purged and having their leadership changed, the people in charge are stepping down. They were probably told 'resign, or be fired', which is a courtesy, and its debateable if they deserved that, but hardly 'deplorable'.

What boggles my mind was the hundreds of so called sleeper cells in America declared just after 9/11, and since then not one person has been officially charged of being a terrorist/terrorism in America.

The feds couldnt even muster enough evidence to charge those guys from Buffalo who spent time training at al-qaeda camps in Afganistan.

It was so easy to fear terrorism when those anthrax cases provided almost certain proof of the hundreds of sleeper cells.

I demand answers now! not 50 years from now..

Quote: "The one thing I have found astonishing since September 11 is that no one in the Government has been held Accountable for anything up to this point. I'm not just talking about 9/11, I'm talking about the Prisoner Abuse Scandal, the War in Iraq w/ NO WMD's found & still not being able to find Bin Laden".

Yes this has also Blown my Mind (although Tenet & some others did eventually get the BOOT)! In addition
Red State Americans Re-Elected Bush because they thought that he was doing a "Good Job Fighting Terror"! The ABOVE is Definitely a HUGE SCANDAL if I ever heard of one! Then you will hear Conservative NUT JOBS talk about the Liberal Democrats & their "Manufactured Scandals" on Fox News. No my friend this is a REAL Scandal -
Monica Lewinski & her "Oral Services" - now THAT was a
Manufactured Scandal!

[edit on 8-12-2004 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 8-12-2004 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 8-12-2004 by Seraphim_Serpente]

One thing you can't go on is Resignations. I do not think we honestly know at this point if they Left "on their own", or were asked nicely to leave. There are too many loopholes to actually hold anyone accountable, It's almost like the Perfect Crime, IMHO. I think more was done to the people who tried to bring things to light, rather than those who could give and make authorative decisions. I believe this is the Leading reason a Conspiracy is questioned. From what we were given from 9-11 in Plain and Simple Language is that OBL was behind the attacks on the World Trade Center, The Pentagon, and another target which stopped short of reaching and crashed in PA. To the best of my Knowledge, He is still on the loose. WHY?

What disgusts me the most is not just the lack of accountability, but how a lot of the American people seem to be encouraging this policy of unresponsibility and unaccountability. You see it every day, "It was the terrorists, not Bush. It was just a bunch of soldiers, not Rumsfeld."

It's absolutely disgraceful and shameful how the people of America are letting this happen.

Thats the whole point.

When I was manager of a computer department, it was my balls on the line if the ops screwed up. The same should be true for Bush and his administration.
His people screw up, its his balls in the wringer.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
What disgusts me the most is not just the lack of accountability, but how a lot of the American people seem to be encouraging this policy of unresponsibility and unaccountability. You see it every day, "It was the terrorists, not Bush. It was just a bunch of soldiers, not Rumsfeld."

It's absolutely disgraceful and shameful how the people of America are letting this happen.

I agree with you whole heartedly. It IS the Americans that are letting this happen. And it they who will reap what they show. What did Osama Bin Laden say in his tape "The reasons are still there for a repeat"

What people, and perhaps even George Walker Bush himself, needs to realize, is that the office of the President of the United States is not just some 9 - 5 job. He is leader of the free world and most powerful man in the world. If he and his administration aren't going to take the task serously, then we the American people should think of Bush and his whole administration as a joke as well (not that it already isn't). So if he feels like way, he better do as Incubus said in "Meglomaniac:" Step down, step down!

Talk about people covering themselves every step of the way. "Osama bin Laden did it, not me! These soldiers do not represent America." Blah blah blah.

And there are the many blind people of America, who believe Bush can do no wrong and is never at fault for anything. Dissent would fix things, but right now these very people are trying to suppress it just so Kerry wouldn't get in office.

[edit on 9-12-2004 by sweatmonicaIdo]

Originally posted by mrmulder
The one thing I have found astonishing since September 11 is that no one in the government has been held accountable for anything up to this point. I'm not just talking about 9/11, I'm talking about the prisoner abuse scandal, the WMD's, the War in Iraq, still not being able to find Bin Laden, the Anthrax attacks. Does anyone agree? All I see are resignations. And you know what's funny? They all are resigning solely for personal reasons. Your thoughts?

my thoughts?

there are too many people that have a tiny part in the blame and not one single person that is to blame more than any one single other person except for the abu graib thing- and those soldiers are being dealt with from the last i heard on that subject. i never understood why someone would try to pin that sorta thing on donald rumsfeld. i don't like the man much cuz he doesn't ever seem to know anything, but i wouldn't expect him to know the specifics of soldiers half-way around the world and the specifics of how they were treating prisoners, unless he got personally involved or kept track of them on a daily basis, or even hourly basis. as for the intelligence community, who would you charge and why? there are too many people working on too many things, everybody knows a little about a lot and not too many know a lot about a little anymore. we just need to get by and rebuild, the towers AND the intelligence community.

Originally posted by fledgling666
there are too many people that have a tiny part in the blame and not one single person that is to blame more than any one single other person except for the abu graib thing- and those soldiers are being dealt with from the last i heard on that subject. i never understood why someone would try to pin that sorta thing on donald rumsfeld. i don't like the man much cuz he doesn't ever seem to know anything, but i wouldn't expect him to know the specifics of soldiers half-way around the world and the specifics of how they were treating prisoners, unless he got personally involved or kept track of them on a daily basis, or even hourly basis.

And therein what you said above lies the problem. The people simply do not seem to get that Don Rumsfeld and George W. Bush's jobs are not your typical jobs. They are, by and large, extraordinary jobs. Therefore, the excuses you give above don't hold water, because extraordinary jobs require extraordinary people and things. Yes, they will slip up and make mistakes and yes, they do not have control of everything. But since they've been in office everything they say suggests they either think or genuinely do not believe they had any fault in it. Again, if they feel like the job is too much for them to handle, they should do the right thing and step down.

Or are their egos to big for it?

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo

Originally posted by fledgling666
there are too many people that have a tiny part in the blame and not one single person that is to blame more than any one single other person except for the abu graib thing- and those soldiers are being dealt with from the last i heard on that subject. i never understood why someone would try to pin that sorta thing on donald rumsfeld. i don't like the man much cuz he doesn't ever seem to know anything, but i wouldn't expect him to know the specifics of soldiers half-way around the world and the specifics of how they were treating prisoners, unless he got personally involved or kept track of them on a daily basis, or even hourly basis.

And therein what you said above lies the problem. The people simply do not seem to get that Don Rumsfeld and George W. Bush's jobs are not your typical jobs. They are, by and large, extraordinary jobs. Therefore, the excuses you give above don't hold water, because extraordinary jobs require extraordinary people and things. Yes, they will slip up and make mistakes and yes, they do not have control of everything. But since they've been in office everything they say suggests they either think or genuinely do not believe they had any fault in it. Again, if they feel like the job is too much for them to handle, they should do the right thing and step down.

Or are their egos to big for it?

Or unless they were ordered to torture the prisoners from a higher up official. Rumsfeld maybe?

Originally posted by mrmulder
the Anthrax attacks

Hatfill did it. There haven't been any more Anthrax
attacks since the feds got on his tail and watch him
24/7. I suppose that's off topic .. and worthy of it's
own chat thread .. but I just thought I'd throw that in.

Originally posted by mrmulder
Or unless they were ordered to torture the prisoners from a higher up official. Rumsfeld maybe?

I won't speculate on that. Whether he ordered them to or not actually doesn't matter, because the fact remains, Rumsfeld didn't do his job. And neither did the entire Bush administration.

One thing that has to be understood about our government is that it is set up for automatic plausible deniability scenarios. It has been designed so compartmentalized that if anything goes wrong, no one individual could ever be pegged as the one who dropped the ball. As it sits, only agencies can be blamed. Lack of communication can be blamed on intangible factors such as infighting, competitiveness, and secrecy, not only from themselves, but the people, and even the president.

The left hand has no idea what the right is doing. As it should be...

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
One thing that has to be understood about our government is that it is set up for automatic plausible deniability scenarios. It has been designed so compartmentalized that if anything goes wrong, no one individual could ever be pegged as the one who dropped the ball. As it sits, only agencies can be blamed. Lack of communication can be blamed on intangible factors such as infighting, competitiveness, and secrecy, not only from themselves, but the people, and even the president.

The left hand has no idea what the right is doing. As it should be...

Interesting theory. If so, this is the most dishonest and dishonorable presidential administration in history and needs to step down now.