RCMP Cpl. Ron Francis, who smoked marijuana on job, found dead

a reply to: Sabiduria

I know all about it. The reason for prohibition is to not only make money, but to keep people in an unenlightened state.

a reply to: intrepid

True, but weed played a big role in his particular situation, did it not? His fellow officers turned their nose up at him and caused him lots of problems because he used it. Sad, but he is not the only one. Mental issues of all kind still hold a stigma in our societies.

a reply to: TKDRL

Is there a link to that? That's the first I heard of peer pressure.

So he was on extended medical leave. But during a hearing he changed to a guilty plea on 3 charges. One I don't understand how he was being charged with though.

Francis pleaded guilty to two counts of assaulting fellow officers and one count of breaching an undertaking to not possess or consume alcohol and non-prescription drugs.

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Being it was medically prescribed marijuana, and nothing about alcohol, this isn't right IMO.

a reply to: TKDRL

Marijuana, according to Francis' lawyer was a red herring, only used to draw attention to the PTSD. The lack of help provided to first responders and others suffering for PTSD was the main focus for this whole case since it first broke.

"Ronnie's whole goal was never smoking marijuana," said Burke. "It was about bringing to light that the RCMP was not providing adequate services to its officers that suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder.

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a reply to: ThisIsMyRifle

It means that he was convicted of assaulting 2 fellow officers and breached an order to not consume alcohol or meds not prescribed to him.

Are there people who do not believe that PTSD, or some form thereof, exists? That is news to me. Even looking back to the historical record we find certain evidence for mental instability with those who participated in war. Especially accounts from the pre-gunpowder era, or fights where hand to hand combat was more common. To be right in the face of your enemy, and to take the lives of multiple individuals in such a manner will do something to most people, even if society has made such acts acceptable. I mean we have soldiers with PTSD whose combat experience was very limited in comparison, so I can only imagine what things were like for the soldiers of different times. I use the examples of soldiers because it seems they are the most likely to have such a condition, given the nature of their work.

My point was only that I cannot understand how anyone could not accept that combat and other horrific experiences will traumatize people to a certain extent. Now to the topic at hand. I think that the scorn shown for this man was unacceptable, and it likely did him psychological harm. The only criticism that I feel would have been warranted was to question his ability to serve as an officer while suffering from such a condition, and whether the marijuana would have altered his performance below the minimum standards required to be a police officer. The fact that it was marijuana should not have been such a big issue in comparison. The backlash was not warranted. Put yourself in his position. You are an officer, and you are suffering from PTSD. You are seeking help for this condition and are prescribed marijuana. You are going about your business, doing your job as you always do, and you are blindsided by hateful comments on local and even national level. Probably even international level. Would you be thinking that you should not be allowed to continue as a police officer? Wouldn't it seem cruel to be forced to give up your livelihood when you are simply trying to manage your condition? Imagine the corner you would be backed into.

a reply to: Sabiduria

Actually i did not say anything about that stuff, i said it can LAUNCH such mental problems. I also explained how it worked with me, ganja gave me like ZOOM to depth of my inside world and there was some real hard realizations that hit hard and i got psychosis that lasted quite long time, i do not say it will happen to everyone or that ganja created these problems....

a reply to: groingrinder

Actually, a Corporal in the RCMP isn't an easy rank to obtain. It usually goes to officers with specialized training and what not. It can go to someone for their service but it isn't like the military that after X years, you get a promotion. Most cops go their whole careers and never go beyond officer/constable. You are eligible for promotion after 7 years I think but that is all, eligible.

He was Native and that may have had more to do with him not progressing through the ranks . a reply to: groingrinder

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
He was Native and that may have had more to do with him not progressing through the ranks . a reply to: groingrinder

That wouldn't have hurt his career. It may have something to do with his death though if is determined that it's suicide. Natives are the #1 victims of suicide in Canada.

originally posted by: JiggyPotamus
Are there people who do not believe that PTSD, or some form thereof, exists? That is news to me. Even looking back to the historical record we find certain evidence for mental instability with those who participated in war. Especially accounts from the pre-gunpowder era, or fights where hand to hand combat was more common. To be right in the face of your enemy, and to take the lives of multiple individuals in such a manner will do something to most people, even if society has made such acts acceptable. I mean we have soldiers with PTSD whose combat experience was very limited in comparison, so I can only imagine what things were like for the soldiers of different times. I use the examples of soldiers because it seems they are the most likely to have such a condition, given the nature of their work.

My point was only that I cannot understand how anyone could not accept that combat and other horrific experiences will traumatize people to a certain extent. Now to the topic at hand. I think that the scorn shown for this man was unacceptable, and it likely did him psychological harm. The only criticism that I feel would have been warranted was to question his ability to serve as an officer while suffering from such a condition, and whether the marijuana would have altered his performance below the minimum standards required to be a police officer. The fact that it was marijuana should not have been such a big issue in comparison. The backlash was not warranted. Put yourself in his position. You are an officer, and you are suffering from PTSD. You are seeking help for this condition and are prescribed marijuana. You are going about your business, doing your job as you always do, and you are blindsided by hateful comments on local and even national level. Probably even international level. Would you be thinking that you should not be allowed to continue as a police officer? Wouldn't it seem cruel to be forced to give up your livelihood when you are simply trying to manage your condition? Imagine the corner you would be backed into.

Yes there are people who think that mental conditions like PTSD & depression are fake. That it is just someone who is not willing to make themselves feel better. They think people are just being selfish or wanting attention. There are people who think psychology is complete hog wash.

The only criticism that I feel would have been warranted was to question his ability to serve as an officer while suffering from such a condition, and whether the marijuana would have altered his performance below the minimum standards required to be a police officer.

I don't know badly PTSD would effect his desk job as administrative support. Also refer back to my post about how the more you perform a task while stoned, the more your brain gets used to performing that task while stoned. Eventually it gets the point where you can perform tasks stoned the exact same way you would not stoned.

I can't imagine how this whole situation ended up making him feel. He was already on the brink and this just made things so much worse. Who knows how bad things were for him before he finally took his own life. The worst weapon ever is the human brain and the way some people mentally beat themselves up, it can take quite the toll.

How many more first responders suffering with PTSD have to die before we get them more help.

a reply to: romilo

Sorry, the way you worded things made it sound differently

Should officers with PTSD be allowed? I think that is a valid question.

No, i don't want to see people discriminated against for their disabilities. However, it would be impossible to argue that a blind person is fit to be a taxi driver.

I employ off duty cops as security. A recent event had a marine (i didn't say former marine ) that is a local deputy. His PTSD interferes with his ability to do the job I need him to do effectively when we have a busy night. This is off duty work. My concern is if his judgement can be impaired under the stress of off duty work at my place (where he is just milling around fiarly well off people who have no criminal background), what is it like when he is on duty faced with something like a loud domestic argument?

Could the perceived increse in police shootings be an artifact of the number of police with PTSD?

Regardless, as it relates to this story....I am not sure he was fit for duty to begin with. The "medication" h was on isn't really the issue. His coping skills are.

a reply to: Sabiduria

I understand, my english is quite bad, learned from movies etc. No harm no faul.

Not sure one way or another . I do know the RCMP likes to have Natives on the force but I am not sure if they are held back in ranking or not .You are right about the suicide rate for them . a reply to: intrepid

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

He wasn't on patrol. He had a desk job as administrative support. I don't think cannabis use would have much of a negative effect on his duties.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

As it was stated already by GAOTU789:

Actually, a Corporal in the RCMP isn't an easy rank to obtain. It usually goes to officers with specialized training and what not. It can go to someone for their service but it isn't like the military that after X years, you get a promotion. Most cops go their whole careers and never go beyond officer/constable. You are eligible for promotion after 7 years I think but that is all, eligible.

I understand that and it could have been the fact that he was a Native that gave him that specialism and rank .Not saying it was so but only something that may have played that way . a reply to: Sabiduria

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Should officers with PTSD be allowed? I think that is a valid question.

No, i don't want to see people discriminated against for their disabilities. However, it would be impossible to argue that a blind person is fit to be a taxi driver.

I employ off duty cops as security. A recent event had a marine (i didn't say former marine

) that is a local deputy. His PTSD interferes with his ability to do the job I need him to do effectively when we have a busy night. This is off duty work. My concern is if his judgement can be impaired under the stress of off duty work at my place (where he is just milling around fiarly well off people who have no criminal background), what is it like when he is on duty faced with something like a loud domestic argument?

Could the perceived increse in police shootings be an artifact of the number of police with PTSD?

Regardless, as it relates to this story....I am not sure he was fit for duty to begin with. The "medication" h was on isn't really the issue. His coping skills are.

There likely is a connection with PTSD , ex military as police and an increase in shootings. However, I doubt it relates directly to this incident. It had already been noted by the OP that this officer was admin support due to the PTSD, and not on patrol. So, he likely didn't carry a weapon at work. And likely never came into direct contact with the public.

Also, the RCMP knew about his prescription, and instead of getting him the support he needed when he protested (publicly), they were instead concerned with their image and publicly fired, shamed and humiliated him. And if that wasn't enough, the minister of justice basically said the 21 year vet ofbyhe RCMP was a disgrace to the nation and the force. And we wonder why he killed himself...