This Traffic Stop Video Epitomizes Everything that is Wrong With Police Today

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

** - My response is based on my state (MO) laws. Each state will have its own criteria but in general they are similar / identical due to court cases and state compacts. **

DWI/DUI - Drugs

If the stop is valid then the K-9 walk around is valid. Don't get me wrong I understand the abuses that can occur. In those cases though the court is the venue to dispute what occurred and not roadside.

As for the smoking weed portion its going to fall under NHTSA standards / state law standards and whether or not a DRE result is admissible in court (In a neighboring county of mine the court has gone bonkers on DRE's and have excluded their testimony). In my experience with DRE's in my state they have to justify their actions from start to finish. Again an argument that should be made in the courtroom and not roadside.

The DRE test is similar to NHTSA drunk driving standards. The DRE goes through his testing and notes the responses / observations. They have to meet the standard in order for a DUI/DWI - drug. Simply admitting to smoking marijuana would require the "how long ago" question. DRE tests are geared to the time frame of how long the drugs etc are in your system.


DWI - Big money
This is both correct and incorrect - First offense convictions in my state usually result in SIS/SES and fines. the fines can go no higher than 500 dollars. With that said my state has removed all DWI prosecutions from the municipal courts and restricted them to the County (state) courts.

Fines generated do not go directly to the Police / sheriff's department (in my state and in general for other states). Prosecution and fines are not determined by the officer. Only the PA can decide to charge and only the judge can determine sentence / fines.


Physical contact with law enforcement
The law in my state defines assault as any unwanted physical contact.

As for bumping - It all depends on totality of circumstances (intentional verse accidental). Injuries sustained on the job are documented 6 ways from Sunday. Disability comes from the medical exam and not what the officer states. Injuries must be documented as it would be considered evidence of an assault / injury).

Receiving disability when there is nothing wrong is a crime and can be prosecuted. If you know of that type of incident as fact then report it to the state.

Again - just representing the LEO side of the fence. As always check your local / state laws / speak to a lawyer if you have questions in your neck of the woods.

Finally I understand your position / anger at law enforcement. My 2 issues with it is the blanket insinuation that ALL law enforcement behaves in unacceptable manners. Every profession has their share of morons who drag down the standards for everyone else, including law enforcement.

Secondly is the lack of knowledge and understanding of how laws and constitutional rights work. The guy in the video is a prime example of not knowing how they work and in the process most likely made the situation 10 times worse than it should have been.

We need to fix the us verse them mentality. We, Law Enforcement and the community we serve, need to start communicating with each other. Its the first step towards understanding and meaningful changes.

My argument here would be for people to know the laws and how it works. It will allow people who want change to know where to start. Its almost impossible to fix something when the person does not know how it works and refuses to learn about it. Learning doesn't mean siding with the police / government. It means a person can make an educated push for the changes.

I do understand your position and agree with most of it.

Hopefully my post makes sense.

If it doesn't let me know. I have a bad habit of going a bit overboard in these types of threads so I am going to step out so others can chime in.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

We need to fix the us verse them mentality. We, Law Enforcement and the community we serve, need to start communicating with each other. Its the first step towards understanding and meaningful changes.

Well said. You have a knack for clarity and prose.

Now if someone could express that to the boys in blue in a manner that is as easily understandable and in a fashion that would 'sink in' we might find the pendulum swinging in the other direction for a change. I am as tired of seeing bigoted responses to cops ... as I am of instance after instance after instance of substantiated abuses of authority. It might not hurt to see a couple of 'bad cops' being made an example of ... not just caught in the act.

And I know ... it's really about the elected officials and the policies they write. If people put half the pressure on the mayor as they put on cops, we'd probably wind up with a better breed of politician.

originally posted by: Snarl
And I know ... it's really about the elected officials and the policies they write. If people put half the pressure on the mayor as they put on cops, we'd probably wind up with a better breed of politician.

Getting government involved could work however I think it would be more appropriate dealing with law enforcement at the same time. A change in policing from one style over to another, like a cop (community organized) style being adopted over the system in place and not working as intended.

While government can help out, the police are going to be more knowledgeable (at least in my experience) about crime stats, focus of resources etc. Since the police are the primary "issue" it can become difficult for them to see the trees since they are standing in the forest. A police department needs feedback from the community on what the actual issues are.

If people dont talk with the police about issues in their areas then there is a good chance law enforcement might not know the problems exist there. In Springfield MO their Police Chief does "coffee" at businesses in the city. Its designed to allow citizens to drop by and speak with the chief. To get feedback directly from the horses mouth.

This tactic has had a positive impact, not only with the citizens but also with groups like the NAACP etc.

An agency can run a stat report and see what the agency has been engaged with. However those stats dont really tell us if those stats have an impact in the problem areas. It does not tell us if the citizens consider those stats their primary concern.

An agency can get grants and allocate funds for a DWI task force to help crack down on drunk driving. So while the police are out in numbers looking for drunks, its possible the citizens main concern is vandalism / break-ins in / drug houses their neighborhoods.

If the citizens and police dont communicate and work together then nothing is going to get fixed.

It has to be a 2 way street.