Black Triangle UFOs and an Alleged Breakaway Civilization- Discuss

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
People need to get away from the RK story and look harder at what was presented if they want to make sense of all of that mess. Take a analogy and then research its real world equivalents. Things might begin to click.

The problem with that, BP, is it doesn't address the long-term behind the scenes cultivation of forevermen and the believers he converted. That took time and effort and...skill? Not very nice, either, if it were a smokescreen (which it doesn't seem to be.)

Your take seems to be that he was in the know and dropped accurate information on black ops platforms and the 75/25 was to cover his ass. It just doesn't compute with the larger picture and the complexity of the forevermen angle. How would you coalesce that into your personal opinion of what it was all about?

If we need "to look harder at what was presented," I'd also challenge you to stop beating around the bush and state exactly what kind of technology you think is at play here. It's not like you know something the Russians and Chinese don't know. I've followed those links and they are interesting, but nothing in it suggests the type of characteristics you report in your sighting(s)---impossible figure-8s, etc.

I would also note, if I'm remembering correctly, that you seem to have seen more than your fair share of UFOs since you've been a member here. I mean you've given accounts before A_0 came along, right?

a reply to: Baddogma

Seeing as how the 'black triangles' have the good ol' red, white, and blue flashing lights, while patrolling interstate highways; it should be pretty obvious as to 'who'.

It's not that far of a stretch since these aircraft didn't start popping up until shortly after drone technology became more widely used.

Link from 2004

I have some first hand accounts, just take a sight-seeing drive at night on a major highway sometime. Pretty wild seeing one just hovering just off the highway a hundred feet off the ground.

originally posted by: yuppa
A O was not banned from ATS so th e person you are talking about is lying. He left of his own accord.

Exactly my point. If it is A0 at LO, then he's an obvious liar.

Yuppa: Are you still in contact with the cosmic dream guru? If so, I'd be careful about following his "suggestions" but that's just me. I've always appreciated you as a member here, so I'm willing to be open to your story but I'd like to hear it from you. If not here, maybe a pm?

a reply to: Phage
Did the military have laptop computers in 1964? iPhones?) used some form of "unknown science?"

They had shoe phones.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

heh.
I had to explain to my daughter where the expression "dial a number" came from.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: lovebeck
You're right. The space shuttle didn't use fossil fuels either.

Generally speaking the majority of the fuel is not fossil fuel based, BUT the POLYMER in the Solid Rocket Boosters [SRB] is made from BUTANE which is indeed a fossil fuel and that makes up over 12% of the fuel for the SRB ...

Space Shuttle Solid Rocket Booster: Propellant

The propellant mixture in each SRB motor consists of ammonium perchlorate (oxidizer, 69.6% by weight), aluminium (fuel, 16%), iron oxide (a catalyst, 0.4%), a polymer (such as PBAN or HTPB, serving as a binder that holds the mixture together and acting as secondary fuel, 12.04%), and an epoxy curing agent (1.96%). This propellant is commonly referred to as Ammonium Perchlorate Composite Propellant, or simply APCP. This mixture develops a specific impulse of 242 seconds (2.37 km/s) at sea level or 268 seconds (2.63 km/s) in a vacuum.

The main fuel, aluminum, is used because it has a reasonable specific energy density of about 31.0MJ/kg, but a high volumetric energy density, and is difficult to ignite accidentally.

The propellant has an 11-point star-shaped perforation in the forward motor segment and a double-truncated-cone perforation in each of the aft segments and aft closure. This configuration provides high thrust at ignition and then reduces the thrust by approximately a third 50 seconds after lift-off to avoid overstressing the vehicle during maximum dynamic pressure (Max Q).

Polybutadiene acrylonitrile (PBAN)

Polybutadiene acrylonitrile (PBAN) copolymer, also noted as polybutadiene — acrylic acid — acrylonitrile terpolymer.

This was the binder formulation widely used on the 1960-70's big boosters (e.g., Titan III and Space Shuttle SRBs). It is also sometimes used by amateurs due to simplicity, very low cost, and lower toxicity than the more common hydroxyl-terminated polybutadiene (HTPB). HTPB uses isocyanates for curing, which have a relatively quick curing time; however, they are also generally toxic. PBAN based propellants also have a slightly higher performance than HTPB based propellants.

PBAN is normally cured with the addition of an epoxy resin, taking several days at elevated temperatures to cure.

PBAN will be used in future NASA missions, most notably the Constellation program, cancellation pending in Congress, as this copolymer was to be used in the first stage of the Ares I rocket in five segments.

Polybutadiene

Polybutadiene is a synthetic rubber that is a polymer formed from the polymerization process of the monomer 1,3-butadiene.

1,3-Butadiene

This hydrocarbon was identified as butadiene in 1886, after Henry Edward Armstrong isolated it from among the pyrolysis products of petroleum.In 1910, the Russian chemist Sergei Lebedev polymerized butadiene, and obtained a material with rubber-like properties.

And also ...

Butadiene can also be produced by the catalytic dehydrogenation of normal butane (n-butane). The first such post-war commercial plant, producing 65,000 tons per year of butadiene, began operations in 1957 in Houston, Texas.[6] Prior to that, in the 1940s the U. S. War Department constructed several plants in Borger, TX, Toledo, OH, and El Segundo, CA to produce synthetic rubber for the war effort as part of the United States Synthetic Rubber Program. Total capacity was 68 KMTA (Kilo Metric Tons per Annum).

Today, butadiene from n-butane is commercially practiced using the Houdry catadiene process, which was developed during WWII.

Is butane a liquid fossil fuel?

s butane a liquid fossil fuel?

Butane is a hydrocarbon compound found in natural gas and crude oil. Both natural gas and crude oil are fossil fuels. At sufficient pressure and low temperature, it can be a liquid.

So in answer to your question, butane is compound that comes from a fossil fuel, and can be both a liquid and a gas depending on the pressure and temperature.

Natural gas is mostly methane and ethane, with small amounts of butane and propane, so it is usually stored as a gas phase. Crude oil has many hydrocarbon compounds heavier than butane, so it remains a liquid.

Fossil fuels WERE used in the creation of some of the propellant used to inject the Space Shuttles into orbit.

So, I think you have some explaining to do!

a reply to: ForeverMan

So, I think you have some explaining to do!

I was talking about the main engines, of course.

a reply to: Phage

Yes, I agree... that people are not good witnesses and eyes are easily deceived.

And I also agree the sources for these sighting could very well be a myriad of different things.

However, the evidence en masse... from family, friends and, most importantly to me (and likely others who've seen these things) my own eyes tells me these machines (or whatever) exist... or to be more precise, lead me to believe their existence is likelier than not... OR someone or something is causing mass hallucinations across the populace.

And that belief from observation is in spite of the numerous reports of credible oddness in the skies-seas from people and situations I don't know as well.

But truly... anything is at least possible. But it's very likely we have a few machines (and odd natural phenom) around exhibiting unfamiliar tech.

But as far as your frequent input on the majority of sightings, I find you are correct. But that doesn't leave room for doubt... and if one were to concede the possibility of these machines, a simple explanation would be a human faction with funds and ability to be secretive... or the military.

The alien explanation has too many problems to make it the likeliest explanation... but it doesn't make it an incorrect one, either.

But I guess you have to see one or two to really spend the time to obsess over it... one that really couldn't be a mis-identification of a mundane thing, that is.

a reply to: Phage

That will indeed explain your answer and that is good enough for me!

Thank you!

a reply to: Baddogma

I think most people here agree the craft and the triangle are in fact real, as I said earlier here I seen one at night with no lights no sound, pretty low, but im not creating a story on what they do either.

a reply to: thediaryofketharsis


Zaphod and me and others do not believe he would be elsewhere contradicting everything he has said here. The give away to me its not him is the I was banned at ATS line. He left on good terms. Now there are a few members who disliked him who I would not put this crap past though. SOMEONE IS USING HIS NAME TO DISCREDIT STUFF AND OR MAKE THEMSELVES LOOK GOOD FOR "DISCOVERING" THIS INFORMATION. Suspicious timing all the sudden woundt you all agree?

originally posted by: The GUT

originally posted by: yuppa
A O was not banned from ATS so th e person you are talking about is lying. He left of his own accord.

Exactly my point. If it is A0 at LO, then he's an obvious liar.

Yuppa: Are you still in contact with the cosmic dream guru? If so, I'd be careful about following his "suggestions" but that's just me. I've always appreciated you as a member here, so I'm willing to be open to your story but I'd like to hear it from you. If not here, maybe a pm?

Im usually pretty good at sniffing out liers. I did research myself as well. Alot of what he told me personally checked out. Remember sometimes you had to add a few details to throw off people monitoring their communications. Trust me if you have clearance you are always tracked no matter where you go. Zaphod can still get in touch with Him i think,but thats between you guys. And No he didnt make any "suggestions" Just stuff to make you think. To look deeper than the official story. Also you should know by now im not afraid to speak my mind. IF someone dont liek it they can go you know where.(except the mods and site owners who i will respect at all times. you guys rock)

a reply to: yuppa

And maybe he discovered it from someone else or another site, and maybe they made it up, maybe hes godzilla, maybe hes you or zaphod, maybe its pretty easy to make multiple accounts, maybe its all true and im aboard it now seeding and harvesting your waking dreams to come reality, or maybe me and him are drinking beer together right now, who effing knows

originally posted by: yuppa
Zaphod and me and others do not believe he would be elsewhere contradicting everything he has said here. The give away to me its not him is the I was banned at ATS line. He left on good terms. Now there are a few members who disliked him who I would not put this crap past though. SOMEONE IS USING HIS NAME TO DISCREDIT STUFF AND OR MAKE THEMSELVES LOOK GOOD FOR "DISCOVERING" THIS INFORMATION. Suspicious timing all the sudden woundt you all agree?

Well, it seems as if you, Zaphod, and others are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt no matter what. That's a lot of dissonant hoops to jump through to keep one's "believer" status.

I don't see the LO thread to look like an effective A_0 smear campaign. That makes no sense. Looks to be the same cat peddling the same tale with a new nugget or two.

a reply to: The GUT

First of all I don't believe there was much long term cultivation going on, even with other members here at ATS. At least there sure wasn't with me. Second. I don't believe most of the people he had contact with, even as "forever men," are 'Converts" to some space religion you are pretending somehow exists now due to a former member of ATS. It's convenient to throw everyone involved into that category even though members like me, and several others, never got down with the RK story. But false dichotomy's are cool if that's the limb you want to go out on.

My take on why he went all forever man on us is that I really don't know. I think he was initially using that angle to fish around. But what he was looking for I can't speculate, maybe other folks in the know. Maybe using small fish to get to bigger fish? Again I don't know. I noticed he went full steam with the Forever man story abruptly in my opinion about 2/3 the way through his time here. As if something spurred him to go hail mary. I personally feel he said the wrong thing slipping out maybe something he wasn't supposed to. It could have been to us the smallest of things. But I feel whatever it was was enough to scare him into undoing his damage, discrediting himself and the story by going all RK and forever man. Quite clever if that was in fact what he had planed and done. Look at all the discord and doubt it's created in anything he's ever posted. Good job for him.

Fact remains all RK stuff aside he posted stuff he really shouldn't have.

Some times in his posts I detected a bitter attitude. I think he was a senior, or retiree who worked deep in these programs, couldn't talk about it, resented it, and initially used a forum like this to connect and took his turn venting by letting slip and alluding to secrets he desperately wanted to share. He went too far maybe and tried his best to creatively undo his damage. And by all accounts it seems to have worked pretty well. But was it nice, hell no. it was downright nasty to do to some of the emotionally weaker members here who were perhaps looking for some type of anchor in their life. But all that aside, You guys are focusing on entirely the wrong aspect of his posts here and missing the gold. Which there was plenty of.

As far as saying outright what I think the technologies involved here have been. I feel like I've been pretty obvious about it. Wanna go re read my posts and use your imagination. But come out right. Not that I couldn't, but it's really not my place to do such a thing. Again part of my "it's not so cool to do that" attitude. But if you pay attention instead of trying to discredit every little thing then you might see that there are plenty of clues to follow that will lead you to "oh i totally get it now" moments for certain things that have been said here on ATS. But that's on you not me. Call this a cop out if you want, but really, no I don't cross that line in regards to what I do know. Although plenty of times i felt like I've gone too far with some clues. And what I do know or understand pales in comparison to what some other members here do. Besides if I were to tell you what I think is going on I'd be much more willing via IM then in public where it would be stupid or thoughtless. Promise though that what I believe is not all woo and mumbo jumbo.

As far as me seeing plenty of stuff outside A to the 0 I'd say about 95% of anything I've ever seen or experienced has had nothing to do with anything related to him. I like to look around, I notice things, I observe. I've always watched the skies ever since I was a kid. I'm good at putting two and two together. It's not a surprise I've seen plenty of stuff before and after the one episode regarding a former member. And I bet I'll see plenty more in the days to come. We all will actually.

a reply to: The GUT

Uhm, no, I am not thanks, and I've never said I was a believer in more than the conventional stuff that was passed around, so please don't either assume that I am, or put words in my mouth thank you.

a reply to: The GUT

apparently someone is out to prove themselves it seems. what better way that debunking someone liek AO?

Point is sometimes the truth no matter how improbable is the truth.

@zaphod.WHoops seems i confused GUT about your relationship/friendship with A. SOrry bout that.

a reply to: The GUT

Im with you and phage and kelly and maybe a few others posting, kind of like they could counter the comment im gonna put with the same one "you can lead a horse to water but you cant make them drink" the reason I said earlier about the "high school" well you understand now right? Theres a few here who just cant give up there interwebs cred, and like ive said before ive spent a good couple nights reading, and thinking about it, but ive also entertained the thought of marshmellows that destroy buildings hmm maybe like the ghost busters, bahah , your pretty cool gut even tho I think you mistooken my earlier hs post, but hey, I can say im charlie sheen winning while losing and I guess still win lmao

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: The GUT

Uhm, no, I am not thanks, and I've never said I was a believer in more than the conventional stuff that was passed around, so please don't either assume that I am, or put words in my mouth thank you.

I wasn't asserting that you--or BASSPLYR--were cult recruits. If it came across that way, then my bad. I was going partly by what yuppa said:

Zaphod and me and others do not believe he would be elsewhere contradicting everything he has said here.

So maybe you and yuppa needa cuppa and a talk.

However, you do come across as very supportive of **** and in light of all the RK stuff and the "forevermen" he was mentoring...I find your seemingly enthusiastic support rather hard to understand.

a reply to: thediaryofketharsis

Yeah, I realized after a couple more posts where you were going. Like I said: Glad you're here and I appreciate you bringing research to the table.