Black Triangle UFOs and an Alleged Breakaway Civilization- Discuss

a reply to: framedragged

Well they are both sound waves, are they not? Wouldn't the equipment used to produce the sounds be at least possibly slightly similar?

a reply to: engineercutout

Nope, only ultrasound is a sound wave in this case. Sound is when objects physical hit each other in a line. Like a Newton's Cradle, but with waaaaaaaaaaay more balls and hitting you in the eardrums at the end of it.

Radar waves (and all other electromagnetic waves) are caused by electrons jiggling around. Electrons have a natural electrical field all around them and when they jiggle around it causes 'ripples' in that electric field. Those electric ripples cause magnetic ripples in the same direction*, and then those magnetic ripples cause more electric ripples, and on and on. You can't hear Radar waves, but you can feel infrared electromagnetic waves and you can see visible electromagnetic waves.

I can smack a table and make a noise, but I can't smack an electron and make a radio wave. So to measure sound I need to measure how much smacking occurs at the sensor, but to measure radio waves I have to measure how much those ripples from earlier make my sensor electrons jiggle.

Electromagnetic waves are kind of hard to describe without the calculus :

*Those ripples oscillate perpendicularly to the direction of motion, but they create new oscillations in the forward direction.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
I'd love to get a little more discussion going on Plasmonics.

There you go, getting all dangerous again!

But I think that the suggested speculation topics still sound like fun

As far as hiding the massive industrial footprint, can anyone confirm whether or not the Apollo Program had a lot of $300 toilet seats? Cause I don't think it would be that hard to tell a bunch of people they were working on the Apollo Program in some facet, when in reality...

Even if there aren't some laws of physics which us folks aren't privy too, we certainly know that the military is interested in dominating space. And if there are some techniques to allow un-bio friendly accelerations, it's probably safe to assume that there is some energy density some where in the system which could get mighty destructive mighty quick.

a reply to: framedragged

Okay, okay, my mistake. I just looked it up, too. Sorry Yuppa!(Guess I got sonar jumbled in there, somehow. Oops!) Well then I'm not sure that I have seen this material before. I believe the paper I read was on a radar based propulsion system. It's been several years. I would still stand by my earlier assesment that Ultrasonic propulsion could work, especially with a lighter than air vehicle. The technology isn't even all that new or exotic, really. Exotic compared to a typical aircraft powerplant or typical flight methods, perhaps, but not too far out in terms of technology.

a reply to: framedragged

Hey frammed any thoughts to plasmonics, quantum boundary layer effects, meta-materials and the implications of future tech? I personally think this field of science will usher in a age similar to when humanity first started making plastics, or even something as major as the change from the bronze age to the iron age in human history. 30 years from now people on the street will wonder how we lived without it. Do you think early inroads to the science over the last 20+ years that the military likely made via classified black projects might have something to do with the observed phenomena of glowing ufo's, triangles, and other assorted high strangeness? Do you think the discoveries of said sciences went classified and constitute a major component to the phenomena discussed in this thread? DO you think if any of the above is true that it could lead to a highly secretive and hidden facet of clandestine human activity for whatever purpose?

Finally if any of the above is true and you are inclined to brainstorm then what do you foresee this technology could be used to develop. Exploration? Space travel? A pathway to usher humanity from a class 0 civilization to a class 1 civilization? Super fast computing and electronics? Boundless energy? Clean "green" fuels? The ability to control weather and positively influence crops harvests so that the world population didn't suffer? Colonization of the solar system? New industries from earths orbit or beyond? New forms of media? Basically a new age? I dunno if you could dream for a moment what would you envision as the possibilities? IF you can imagine any of the above then could you see realistically that much of it could be so classified (and probably for good reasons) as to almost seem like a clandestine or almost break away endeavor?

originally posted by: engineercutout
a reply to: framedragged

Okay, okay, my mistake. I just looked it up, too. Sorry Yuppa!(Guess I got sonar jumbled in there, somehow. Oops!) Well then I'm not sure that I have seen this material before. I believe the paper I read was on a radar based propulsion system. It's been several years. I would still stand by my earlier assesment that Ultrasonic propulsion could work, especially with a lighter than air vehicle. The technology isn't even all that new or exotic, really. Exotic compared to a typical aircraft powerplant or typical flight methods, perhaps, but not too far out in terms of technology.

ultrasonic marine propulsion

ultrasonic power transmission

Oh no problem man. The above are interesting to your ultrasonics.

a reply to: engineercutout

Getting Radar and Sonar mixed up is pretty understandable And no doubt, sound can push stuff around with no problem.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

I think that combining nano/micro-scale engineering, a-la classic meta-materials, with specific plasmonic properties can give the creator of said material near complete control over electromagnetic propagation through the material. And with that kind of control I think you can do a lot. Meta-material 'invisibility cloaks' are more than proofs of concept in university labs, they clearly demonstrate principles which can be scaled up outside of the lab. Throw on a few wide band-gap optical layers, with a few layers at specific IR wavelengths, maybe absorb the IR (and some engine/exhaust heat?) back into thermal heat and then pass it through another meta-material to generate some electric current. Sounds complicated and heinous, but not all that unreasonable to me. And that's just two ways, out of endless.

I don't know about seeing such stuff whiteworld in our life times, but with some of the medical research they're doing lately who knows (Who here saw the Stanford research on successfully lengthening DNA telomeres?) People would get angry if they just dropped the dime all at once and I don't know if some of it is really complicated enough to dole out without people just figuring it all out too soon and getting angry again. Maybe some lucky sap will get chosen to be the next Einstein, when he's really just a smart man's Milli Vanilli.

There's definitely something in the skies. Maybe they are just super fragile blimps with near perfect laminar control; as long as they don't accelerate too fast then no one's getting smeared anywhere. Or maybe they're much more exotic. I'm kinda torn on this point, given that I'm working entirely with hearsay and speculation lol.

Given the reports of Ben Rich's UCLA address, (We can go to the stars, and do stars wars level awesomeness) I've always been leaning towards, "But maybe it is true" in regards to the depth of the secret space program. I always considered his supposed testimony to be the most damning piece of evidence in this entire debate. But after his deathbed show and tell I'm torn again.

A) Someone on the inside sent him real pictures of a real alien and we have all seen real pictures of a real alien.

B) Miragemen sent him fake pictures of a fake alien, telling him they were real, fooling him into destroying his credibility and obfuscating his past testimony.

C) He is a mirageman who either
i. Always has been.
or
ii. Regretted his decision to spill the beans in the past and did his best to put a few back in the can by joining them.
In either case, all of his odd physics gaffes in interviews were part of the obfuscation.

D) He really was a crazy loon who just so happened to make it the head of Skunkworks and all of his odd physics gaffes in interviews were real.
E) ?

Frankly I'm inclined to think it was a mix of B and D, but I don't know if that is worth much of anything.

Assuming that it's all B, all the time, and that we do have the technology to travel among the stars, then I weep for any planets rich in natural resources with their own Biospheres, for I'm more than sure that we'll be there soon enough, hands outstretched and grasping at things. I can see asteroid mining and solar system colonization really taking off in a couple of decades or less if we did have something like Ben Rich was talking about and it was released. But the timescale to really get colonizing the stars is dependent on how fast we can build things and breed more than anything, unless we go with the boring and pointless* Neumann Probe system.

I dunno. I really do believe that the future will resemble a lot of what we call sci-fi right now. But if the technology that builds such a civilization has the capability to manipulate a lot of energy, and is simple to build, and doesn't require hard to obtain radioactive materials, then I don't think humanity exists in a world that is ready for any such technological advancement.

I would go so far as to say that if any of he who shall not be named's story is true, in regards to the deeply entrenched Military Industrial Complex, then that is because some physicists in the 40's opened the closest thing to the real Pandora's box that the world has ever seen.

*Oh good, we just received the final report from the final probe visiting the final star, after waiting for the probes to get over there and then waiting for the light to get back. Now that's a long term investment of interest.

edit: Holy crap this a long post

a reply to: framedragged

double negative refraction indexes. Cool. There's gotta be more uses for that than just optical.

BTW. you're right about the ben rich quote, but your confusing the death bed show and tell guy (boyd bushman) as Ben Rich. The bushman thing is kinda sad. Not sure what to make of it. The Ben Rich quote if true is telling.

I agree about the pandora's box. Maybe it wasn't pandoras box but a revelation about how the quantum universe works that made a giant leap in understanding. Just cause the leap is huge doesn't mean it's complicated either in my opinion. It's probably very simple. Too simple even and too dangerous for just that reason. And I also agree that we in general are not ready for things at that power level density. Hell we can't even trust most of the worlds population with chemical energy densities.

If we could find a way to screw with inertia we could find a way to circumvent relativity and go superluminal without a problem. IS there a way to do that without using astronomical energy densities? A way to short the system, so that part of it does not compute and mass goes out the window to some degree, and is it a expensive but simple trick once understood? Then we could cruise the universe at will. Or at least the solar system at first. Communication shouldn't be a problem with QE. Instant communication between two devices anywhere, non interfere-able/interceptable, and not giving out a signal that we are there either.

a reply to: framedragged

you read my links i posted? I think he was thinking of the stuff in the second link.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
BTW. you're right about the ben rich quote, but your confusing the death bed show and tell guy (boyd bushman) as Ben Rich. The bushman thing is kinda sad. Not sure what to make of it. The Ben Rich quote if true is telling.

-.-' I think that my scores in reading comprehension for the standardized testing I took back in elementary school just got retroactively marked down.

There's gotta be more uses for that than just optical.

For sure. Storing electromagnetic energy/waves without converting it into something else is a big one that springs to mind.

I agree about the pandora's box. Maybe it wasn't pandoras box but a revelation about how the quantum universe works that made a giant leap in understanding.

Very true, when we really open Pandora's Box I think the world will take notice.

Just cause the leap is huge doesn't mean it's complicated either in my opinion. It's probably very simple.

Honestly, a lot of quantum mechanics isn't that complicated. If you can wrap your head around the (non)physicality of it, and you know calculus and linear algebra, then it's really just more of a long math problem. And as long as you're not approaching it with von Neumann rigor and going the Dirac way then it's mostly just a lot of tedious linear algebra. Throw in some perturbation theory and the math load gets stupid, but it's just more of the same math.

Hell we can't even trust most of the worlds population with chemical energy densities.

Or even pointy sticks :\

If we could find a way to screw with inertia we could find a way to circumvent relativity and go superluminal without a problem. IS there a way to do that without using astronomical energy densities?

Depends on what Inertia really is I would guess. If it's Quantum-Mechanical in nature then I would bet there is a way with reasonable energy densities. If it's relativistic I would bet that there isn't, but 'astronomical' still probably scales down with your ship's size. And this isn't an Alcubierre drive, so it could maybe require even less energy than that, which was something around the mass of Jupiter c squared last I heard?

Then we could cruise the universe at will.

I still worry about the memory/search-time requirements to store and retrieve a star map for every point you'll encounter out and about, and computing the 3-D distances to each star around you in deep space so that you can compare your 3-D position with some smaller memory of known and stored star maps both seem time prohibitive for doing much more than traveling in the same direction there and back. If you had a really sweet computer with amazing machine accuracy then I suppose you could just compute how far you've gone and where you are, but I don't know how I'd feel about on a long voyage.

Communication shouldn't be a problem with QE. Instant communication between two devices anywhere, non interfere-able/interceptable, and not giving out a signal that we are there either.

Galactic Internet and Galactic Cable are what this galaxy really needs. No better present for humanity to give all the other aliens

a reply to: yuppa

Yeah, that second link was really interesting. Wonder if they could focus other mechanical energy into those Lamb waves and dampen the whole plane while giving some power.

Well we already bombard them with real house wives of Beverly hills. They are probably prepping for war with the humans as we speak right now as a response. I'm sure to them one of those dilettantes sounds just like the mars attacks aliens when they receive their galactic broadcasts. "Akk! Ak! Ak!!!

Or maybe it's more like the galactic empire. "Sir! it seems like the space apes have gone insane again and are broadcasting their demands on the galactic holonet who can we call for help!?!" - Just then a hologram appears before them with some giant guy in a slick suede suit that's black like tar. "It's the V to the A to the D. E. R. VADER reconstructing the Death Star...be F ing up humans no matter where they are!" two months later the galaxy is purged of all earthlings.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
I'd love to get a little more discussion going on Plasmonics. I think that would go a long way in explaining some of the phenomena. I know a few other posters would like to see that topic discussed a bit more. I think it's central to the thread topic in some ways.

Any opinions on how sensitive the human brain is in general to EM fields. Has humanity since day one always had a problem tripping out when exposed to strange EM fields whether from quantum phenomena or just good old fashioned things like lightning storms and heightened E fields in the air. Is it completely natural and were just didn't know about how susceptible were are to having our senses go haywire from time to time. Do we put too much into these hallucinations? Does this knowledge Are new sciences developing that take advantage of this phenomena and what sort of tools for mankind could these new science usher in?

There was some 'talk' here about "plasmonics" in pages 45 thru around page 48 - though it did center mostly on the idea of 'sentient' plasma 'entities'. but...

...somewhere during that time period, member ATODASO made a really great thread which took the subject toward "EM fields" and military involvement in plasma 'stuff'...

On page 1 Bedlam did a lengthy post on his encounter with some sort of plasma or EM related 'thing' when he was in the military (he also has a comment on the experience on page 7)

Jukiodone and THE Gut also participated in the thread, though I can't remember specifics

ATODASO's thread re: Plasma spheres

There's some good stuff there and it only goes for 9 pages total...

Warning: one contributor spends a lot of time trying to convince everyone that 'there's nothing to see here folks, because it's all due to nothing more than temporal lobe effects'...I don't think anyone ever agreed with him...

Happy reading

a reply to: lostgirl

Lostgirl, thank you for the link to that thread. I actually never knew about it or read it. Bedlams story there is very interesting. Wonder what he thinks he saw that day. What his conclusion to it was.

a reply to: fr33coll3ct1v3

As for that bit on the black monolith, it occurs to me that ITSIR (if this story is real) then the previous civ's motif/style was black monoliths and triangles ... so maybe it was another "marker" unrelated to ALICCE but from the same general source.

If even a few of those whistle-blowers from the deep black are legit, then ... well, then the question really comes to the source of the high tech... namely, aliens or us... and "us" could be derived from prehistory as Voldamort suggests.

Sorry, reading back between working to feed myself and revisiting some posts...carry on. eta oh and if Sagan WAS called in then his disdain for alien tabloid memes is understandable ...as in humans are pretty capable despite occasional dark ages! The cancer wave is true enough and the names mentioned keep cropping up in regards to this subject.

ETAx2 And LOSTG.. thanks, missed that thread...and wow. The info GUT brought up about black tech/intel using plasma spheres as, basically, little cameras to spy on stuff is weird, but real.. .according to those few unclassified documents, anyway, as well as Bedlam's sighting. I've seen some sentient seeming plasma myself... looking like it was playing on a mountain with friends during an incredible T-storm, once in a parking lot and once in a haunted house... in the shape of a human...sorta...good stuff.

ahhhh. star wars rap. thy wit doth still amazeth me!

a reply to: yuppa

Yes! I'm glad somebody got the joke!!! I knew you were cool Yuppa!!!!

All of you better join the dark side or we roll up on your planet death star drive by.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

a reply to: yuppa

a reply to: framedragged

Perhaps there's another reason I had radar on the brain. I got to thinking that if you combine Voldemort's tech description I cited earlier with Foreverman's data dump in this thread you explain how a vehicle like this might be able to achieve orbit. Switch on your Em Drive(microwaves in a resonant cavity) once you've floated to the top of the sea of air. Integrate both emitters into a single array mounted on each control pod...

ATS Post

Em Drive-Wikipedia

Voltron, anyone? Purely speculation on my part, to be sure. If Em Drive works and someone stumbled on it decades ago, the technology would have all been there to produce that type of equipment, since the 1940's. Whichbrings us to Foreverman...

I guess were not supposed to discuss members but I think we can still discuss the content they contributed. FM's contributions seem to be mostly confined to this thread. Dumping data on the Em Drive, contributing slightly to the narrative, and rebutting some of the debunking attempts that followed said data dump. Combined with Intro thread and name selection designed to insinuate him/her into the narrative. Co-opt attempt, last minute contributions by Voldemort that had initially been forgotten, or accomplice diving in to corroborate the tale seem the three most likely options. I lean toward the second, based on the overall feel of what I read. Anyhow that member's contributions defenitely led me to believe that whoever he was, the guy wanted us to check out the Em Drive, and in association with this narrative.

I suppose that a number of other, more "conventional" options would have been available to them at the time as well. Solid rocket boosters, ion drive, plasma device perhaps. As other posters have said, if you're already at the top of the atmosphere when you start your drive to orbit, you've already done a good deal of the heavy lifting, especially if you have extreme bouyancy to keep you there. You might even be able to get a running start with your Ultrasound drive and shoot up above the top of the "sea of air", like a fish jumping out of water, before lighting your second stage, whatever that might be.

A while back i downloaded pdfs from stealth there was a pdf regarding a certain groomlake colonel..

"Groom Lake Colonel" Explains the PX and Time-Shift Technology (1995) From: [email protected] (James Stephens ) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: GroomLake`Colonel`Reveals`All Date: 5 Sep 1995 05:57:06 GMT Edited by Rick Andersen, 11/8/97. The following file appeared on the KeelyNet in 1995. It is supposed to have been written by an Air Force Colonel who is telling us about the basic technology used for time-shifting and for the Philadelphia Experiment.

i see some similarities in what is said in that article n what ~str0 said.esp about e.e.g waves n how the govt has crafts that can EXTRACT HIDDEN INFO from said waves.

As someone who has worked on the B2 bomber and its more advanced cousins in the Air Force for 20 years, I can tell you the whole story is unbelievable. 20 hours is too conservative a time estimate for complete explanation. Some crafts that we have do use electromagnetism to nullify gravity and even extract hidden information from EEG waves. But these are not deployed and will not be until they are needed. They pump electricity from inside themselves into a sheet of electricity some distance away -- exactly as the Earth is positive "ground" and the ionosphere a negative sheet. This sheet bends parallel radar waves around the craft like a water droplet in a rainbow or just like the ionosphere bends radio waves, making for long distance communications.

Regarding the A.I Anyone interested can read my post on the thread -Is ALICCE real? ALICCE

Also aside if anyone here knows math really well i cud use some help with an formula that can track the COMPLEX phase of electrons in a fixed volume of S-TIME.And also in a pulsating vol of electrons [ sqr wave].

do let me know-- if the formula has a golden ratio component-phi.

Basically a way to compute the the amount of rotation(angular velocity) to be applied on a pulsating(oscillating) sheet of charge within a static magnetic field in order to transition the electrons in that charge sheet to gamma frequency a.k.a freq>blue photon.

Remember EXCITATION WITHOUT RELAXATION is the trick.Align 4-phase momentum of a highly excited volume of electrons and you have a way to absorb/block gravitational energy.

a reply to: fr33coll3ct1v3

The creation of an artificial Neutral dimension Zone,this stuff is the beginning of the curve,the top of it are the many types of Craft seen Globally.

Think of a bubble of air rising up through the water...what is between the water and the air?

Think of the Shrimp that creates temps equalling the surface of the Sun in the process of creating an air bubble he pushes at his target allowing him to move his appendage faster than normal AND THEN he pushes through the bubbles interior zone increasing his speed and energy exponentially like a mini-nuke,this is another naturally occuring neutral dimension zone application.


Think of the super-cavitating Torpedo,same idea.

The periphery of this stuff is all over the Net,people are now taking massive steps in developing technologys in their own homes and schools.

Change can happen quickly if TPTB choose to make it so.

Even the Disclosue movement which is MASSIVE can be silenced with the quick hitting impacts of the appropriate levels of technological advancement.

Disclosue is over,now acceptance is the goal.

Consider it for a moment,how superstitious is it to disbelieve there is technology which can blink out of sight and travel in space? We have in our recent memories the perfect example of indiginous peoples who carry these superstitions,in all probability they are instinctual and we all carry them.But of all people WE should see the dynamic happening to ourselves and rise above it.

Once people see they can travel globally in minutes,and from here to Mars or the Moon in just hours or less,they will want Global Commercilisation immediatly,humanity would suddenly be tasked with growing pains which would REQUIRE more than 7 billion people to undertake.The commercial opportunitys are historic in nature.

Yes Disclosure is very much over,now the key-word is Acceptance.

a reply to: one4all

Once people see they can travel globally in minutes,and from here to Mars or the Moon in just hours or less,they will want Global Commercilisation immediatly...

That's all really interesting. What's going to man these spacecraft? Robots?

The human body disintegrates when it is away from earth and we haven't come close to solving that problem yet.

originally posted by: fr33coll3ct1v3

Basically a way to compute the the amount of rotation(angular velocity) to be applied on a pulsating(oscillating) sheet of charge within a static magnetic field in order to transition the electrons in that charge sheet to gamma frequency a.k.a freq>blue photon.

Remember EXCITATION WITHOUT RELAXATION is the trick.

What exactly are you trying to do? If you are accelerating electrons quickly then they will emit elecromagnetic radiation and slow down.

A particle accelerator of electrons will be efficient at making x-rays, and these are used for physics & chemistry investigations. www.lightsources.org...

Align 4-phase momentum of a highly excited volume of electrons and you have a way to absorb/block gravitational energy.

Are these free electrons? What do you do about the mutual repulsion?

Explain why would it have any influence on gravitation?