BREAKING: Video Finally Released of Cops Shooting Man with a Toy Gun in Wal-Mart

originally posted by: SheopleNation
Of course he did not deserve to lose his life, he just made a tragic mistake. ~$heopleNation

I think I'd like public review of police procedures as well. Seems as violent crime goes down the police response has been escalating. (not everywhere, not every time, but frequently)

a reply to: MarlinGrace

I was raised around guns and I agree with everything you posted, seems it was the kids who were not educated about firearms that would treat actual guns as toys.

originally posted by: Elton

I think I'd like public review of police procedures as well. Seems as violent crime goes down the police response has been escalating. (not everywhere, not every time, but frequently)

Well I believe that violent crime is escalating due to the high cost of living and lack of jobs, but that is another discussion. I don't see anything unreasonable about the public reviewing Law Enforcement procedures, just as long as some of the more biased publics one sided views do not obstruct reasonable conduct that will end up costing innocent people their lives.

Let me explain, Had these officer's showed more restraint, and had this truly been a violent criminal who was planning a massacre, the same finger pointers would be calling for their heads. They can't win.

Let me tell you something, I have two friends who are in Law Enforcement, and one of them works the streets of Oakland, Ca. People have absolutely no idea about how much pressure and stress that some of these guys are under on a daily basis.

Now, Does that mean that all Cops are good? absolutely not. The fact of the matter is though, there are bad apples in all professions. ~$heopleNation

a reply to: Shredder36

I seen this today and it sickened me! Along with the State Trooper who shot an unarmed man and a police beating a woman in the face.

originally posted by: Answer

I think you all conveniently forget that the cop didn't have all the details at the time of the shooting. He saw a man with a VERY NON-AIRGUN LOOKING rifle whose first response to his shout was to turn his way and raise the rifle.

So...what do you expect to happen if you shout at a guy who's not expecting anything? Your natural reaction is to turn and see what's going on. I guarantee if I come up behind a COP and shout, he'll turn. ANYONE will. If "I shouted at him and he said 'huh?' and turned toward me, so I killed him" is a valid excuse, you guys have another great tool for shooting the civilians at will.

PS, if you flash a light in someone's eyes, they'll blink, too, maybe you could try "Blink and I'll kill you!" and then flash a light at them, another stride for officer safety!

a reply to: SheopleNation

"Let me explain, Had these officer's showed more restraint, and had this truly been a violent criminal who was planning a massacre, the same finger pointers would be calling for their heads. They can't win. "


Spot on.. I think anyone calling for their heads, etc. etc. need to try it once on dangerous call with a armed person, then we can have this discussion again. Walk a mile as they say.

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

Spot on.. I think anyone calling for their heads, etc. etc. need to try it once on dangerous call with a armed person, then we can have this discussion again. Walk a mile as they say.

And if my granny had wheels, she'd be a wagon. If I'd shot people on as little pretext in the Army as cops can get away with here, I'd have had a lot more NJPs than I did.

"what if he might have shot me if I didn't just gun him down first" seems a bit stretchy in terms of an excuse.

originally posted by: SheopleNation
Let me explain, Had these officer's showed more restraint, and had this truly been a violent criminal who was planning a massacre, the same finger pointers would be calling for their heads. They can't win.

Well I suppose I am one of the finger pointers.

I do not recall ever questioning police procedures when confronting an active shooter so maybe people are more varied and complex than that statement alludes to...

That said I agree it is probably quite difficult to be Police in a large city. Unfortunately over the years the trust between LEO and non-LEO seems to have degraded a bit. Many seem to see the police as an oppressive force used by the elite of the state or as a symbol for their own distrust in government.

I think the divide is more a combination of issues rather than something that is simply 2 opposing ideologies.

originally posted by: SheopleNation

Let me explain, Had these officer's showed more restraint, and had this truly been a violent criminal who was planning a massacre, the same finger pointers would be calling for their heads. They can't win.

More restraint? They showed absolutely no restraint. You make it seem as if they gave repeated orders for this man to drop the gun. Though as the video shows the shots were fired almost immediately after they yelled. They never even gave Mr. Crawford the opportunity to tell them he wasn't truly a violent criminal planning a massacre.

Must be pretty stressful to gun people down without giving them a chance and have no repercussions for your actions.

I cannot stand the police, but I'm trying to fight my own personal feelings on the matter, because after seeing the video my sympathy for the man who got shot goes way down.

He was standing there for a long time doing nothing but waving the gun around. It seems he was purposefully trying to get some sort of response. Can anyone provide one single logical explanation for why this man would be standing in a store, with no cart, just standing there for awhile waving a gun around?

It's an air rifle, it's not a toy gun. Toy guns are legally required to be sold with orange markings on the tips, air rifles are not, because they are not toys. A child could not legally purchase this without a parent present.

So you have a guy standing there looking suspicious, waving around what looks to be a real gun. I conceal carry, and if I was in that situation I would draw and fire the second that man pointed the gun at me. I cannot fault the police for acting the same way.

99% of the time I side with the civilian, but I changed my mind on this case after seeing the video. He brought this on himself, white CHILDREN have been shot by police for pointing toy guns at them. I don't want to hear some racial bull. The airsoft (similar to paintball but with 1:1 exact firearm replicas) community tries to police it's own and make sure people don't do stupid stuff like this, because if you point what appears to be a real gun at a cop, they have every right to shoot you.

If we (civilians against police corruption and brutality) want to be taken seriously we can't just attack the police every time simply because they are police. Then we ARE what people claim we are, nothing but mindless cop haters. Sometimes the police are more than justified in shooting someone, and this really appears to be one of those cases.

Why was he waving a gun around? That behavior will get anyone shot regardless of age, gender, or racial make up. I hope we can keep our composure here and not let our emotions make us look like fools.

originally posted by: Bedlam
And if my granny had wheels, she'd be a wagon. If I'd shot people on as little pretext in the Army as cops can get away with here, I'd have had a lot more NJPs than I did.

Maybe you should have? Then maybe some of your innocent brothers would not have been expected to take on ruthless killers with one hand tied behind their backs? ~$heopleNation

originally posted by: Elton
Well I suppose I am one of the finger pointers.

Only you know the answer to your own question.

I think the divide is more a combination of issues rather than something that is simply 2 opposing ideologies.

Without a doubt it is. People on both sides are fed up with certain law enforcement violating citizens constitutional rights. I don't see that here in this case however. ~$heopleNation

originally posted by: FraggleRock
More restraint? They showed absolutely no restraint. You make it seem as if they gave repeated orders for this man to drop the gun.

Oh really? What have I said that made it seem that way guy? How about you quote what MADE YOU assume that Boomer? ~$heopleNation

a reply to: SheopleNation

I did. Your hypothetical suggested that had officers shown more restraint...

Let me explain, Had these officer's showed more restraint, and had this truly been a violent criminal who was planning a massacre, the same finger pointers would be calling for their heads. They can't win.

More, TO ME, usually implies there was some to begin with. So are you saying that police showed enough restraint or are you saying they could have shown more?

Oh and it's Boober Fraggle in my picture not Boomer.

All I got from this thread. Is that some people like having masters and like letting those masters do whatever they want. To themselves and others. The master is never ever in the wrong. It is only the master that is important. Everyone else is a serf. Who is put on this earth to serve the masters.

I will never ever call the police anymore. I have a 50/50 chance of surviving on my own. A 100 percent chance of the police killing me on accident. My heart goes out to the family and friends of the guy murdered.

]SheopleNation
No it's you that does not get it, anyone can walk into anywhere with a gun. That is what you seem to not be able to comprehend. The Police have a duty to respond to a possible threat. ~$heopleNation

Are you sure..... me thinks you speak with a forked tongue! Yeah "POSSIBLE" threat.... stupid cop didn't check for "possible" threat, he got all happy triggered and got away with murder.


I think the grand jury who decided not to indict the officers in this shooting consisted of retired officers.... It just doesn't make sense that these idiot cops face no trial.

And that's all I have to say about that....

originally posted by: imitator

I think the grand jury who decided not to indict the officers in this shooting consisted of retired officers.... It just doesn't make sense that these idiot cops face no trial.

Oh yeah I am sure, Can you prove that the Jury even had one single retired cop on it? If so then prove it. Otherwise you're just passing gas through your mouth.

And that's all I have to say about that....

Probably a good decision my friend, there is always tomorrow to make yourself look like an even bigger fool. ~$heopleNation

originally posted by: SheopleNation

Well is it you that suggest that it would have been better for Law Enforcement to allow a possible lunatic to gun down women and children inside of Walmart?

So, you're for preemptive shooting civilians who might at some point present a problem? Should vastly simplify police work. Kudos!

Hey, that one looks shady! BAM
That guy there, he's looking at ammo, I think he might in future present some issues! BAM
That man doesn't look like a carpenter to me, I'd say that was an assault hammer in the making! BAM

Cutting the "assess" out of the Assess-Act-Evaluate loop sure saves time. Just replace it with "He was coming right for us"

a reply to: Bedlam

Yeah ok blah, blah, blah and more blah. Hey? It sounds really good for you foaming out the mouth cop haters, but at the end of the day the rest of the shoppers inside Walmart that day deserved the benefit of the doubt over your hero idiot who walked around waving a pellet gun that he had no intention of purchasing.

If one carries around a pellet gun, that looks like an assault rifle, while inside a public establishment, the possible innocent victims safety comes before his or her stupidity.

I know it's hard for your mind to grasp, but I am sure if that guy had gunned down someone that you love, you would be singing a very different tune. So you're basically just another pathetic hypocrite.

Nice to know. ~$heopleNation

Terrible. That's beyond trigger happy. Straight murder. Officer should be tried and convicted.

Edit: reading back through the thread it seems he was tried and got off. It's typical. Surprised there hasn't been rioting.