Logical evidence for aliens?

a reply to: magicrat

To the OP: to answer your thread's title "Logical evidence for aliens?", my answer is "No". Not only is there no logical evidence for the reality of alleged extraterrestrial aliens, there is no evidence, period. All that you have to support the reality of aliens is belief and hearsay and you know where that is at.

I don't think that anyone replying to this thread is going to offer any more than an uneducated opinion.

I'm not a fan of the ancient alien theory myself. Some of the old great structures like the Great Wall of China and the Pyramids involve math formulas that aren't as advanced as we have today (Pyramids using 22/7 rather than PI for example). Any alien species would have provided better information.

That doesn't mean they didn't visit, but they didn't give us technology out of it.

a reply to: magicrat

As far as I can tell, just about all religions throughout human history have a common basic story:

Its called "Mythology". The Hero With a Thousand Faces

Campbell explores the theory that important myths from around the world which have survived for thousands of years all share a fundamental structure, which Campbell called the monomyth. In a well-known quote from the introduction to The Hero with a Thousand Faces, Campbell summarized the monomyth:

“ A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder: fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is won: the hero comes back from this mysterious adventure with the power to bestow boons on his fellow man.[3] ”

In laying out the monomyth, Campbell describes a number of stages or steps along this journey. The hero starts in the ordinary world, and receives a call to enter an unusual world of strange powers and events (a call to adventure). If the hero accepts the call to enter this strange world, the hero must face tasks and trials (a road of trials), and may have to face these trials alone, or may have assistance. At its most intense, the hero must survive a severe challenge, often with help earned along the journey. If the hero survives, the hero may achieve a great gift (the goal or "boon"), which often results in the discovery of important self-knowledge. The hero must then decide whether to return with this boon (the return to the ordinary world), often facing challenges on the return journey. If the hero is successful in returning, the boon or gift may be used to improve the world (the application of the boon).

Very few myths contain all of these stages—some myths contain many of the stages, while others contain only a few; some myths may have as a focus only one of the stages, while other myths may deal with the stages in a somewhat different order. These stages may be organized in a number of ways, including division into three sections: Departure (sometimes called Separation), Initiation and Return. "Departure" deals with the hero venturing forth on the quest, "Initiation" deals with the hero's various adventures along the way, and "Return" deals with the hero's return home with knowledge and powers acquired on the journey.

originally posted by: magicrat
As far as I can tell, just about all religions throughout human history have a common basic story: sometime in the past, a Being or Beings created us. We had direct contact and communication with them for a while, they helped us with stuff, and then they left, saying they'd be back someday.

Religion didn't start out with the notion of human-like entities, with human-like motivations creating humans. Religion pretty much started out with people attributing "spirits" to natural phenomena. Sky spirit. Rain spirit. Bear spirit. Etc. They all worked together to inhabit and maintain a reality of balance. There was no good or evil. The universe was balanced and ran in orderly cycles. Sometimes they thought people had always been a part of the grand scheme. Sometimes they thought human beings evolved from other things. The Aztecs thought humanity descended from a world of monkeys.

Then somebody (the Zoroastrians) decided they wanted a little more conflict in their religion, probably as a result of being in conflict with other humans, maybe being forced into slavery. So they made up stories about these "good" and "evil" entities coming from other places, fighting each other, and treating humanity like property. Because that's what they knew.

So, no. Myths of ancient aliens don't offer any "logical" proof of alien existence, any more than the older religions offer a logical proof that a capricious Rain God controls world weather, encouraging life and death where it is needed.

a reply to: Uggielicious

Thanks for your opinion. I think several people have replied with much more than an uneducated opinion, but I won't deny that they're all just opinions since none of us know for sure.

a reply to: RayVon

Thank you!

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

Okay, I see where you're coming from now. Thanks.

I was not thinking of pyramids or any technological advancements when I wrote that. I was thinking specifically about the Judeo-Christian story of Exodus, and more vaguely about other stories of Beings helping humans (Poseidon creating favorable currents, Jesus supplying fish and wine for a wedding, etc). A lot of these kinds of stories can be explained via natural scientific phenomena of course; my point was just that there's a common narrative in religion and mythology that at some point in the past Beings were directly involved in our lives, usually in a helpful way.

a reply to: magicrat

I was thinking specifically about the Judeo-Christian story of Exodus, and more vaguely about other stories of Beings helping humans (Poseidon creating favorable currents, Jesus supplying fish and wine for a wedding, etc).

There are only so many ways to tell a story and Humans are story telling machines. We love to hear the stories too. Look how much TV we watch and not just the fictional dramas, the News is story telling also. Stories need to get a message across, so exaggeration and embellishment are key. For instance, the story of Exodus was told and retold orally before it was written down. There is no actual record of this event occurring besides what is in the Old Testament. From what I understand, nothing in the Egyptian records hints at this event. So it was either insignificant or never took place.

my point was just that there's a common narrative in religion and mythology that at some point in the past Beings were directly involved in our lives, usually in a helpful way.

I think you are implying that because there is a common narrative, that these stories must have been based on actual occurrences. Science fiction stories follow a common narrative as do comic book Super Hero stories. Dreams often follow a narrative too. There is a common thread between all people but I think this is largely due to the way we are wired.

originally posted by: magicrat
a reply to: Uggielicious

Thanks for your opinion. I think several people have replied with much more than an uneducated opinion, but I won't deny that they're all just opinions since none of us know for sure.

I didn't mean to be flip and I'm not able to edit my replies or I would have rephrased it. But like you say only opinions can be advanced.

I love this topic - it is something i have thought long and hard about for ages.

A few things - how can one race have various religions? How can one race have totally different looking ethnicities - i get it's to do with genes and surroundings etc but seriously, asian, caucasian, afro caribbean, nordic - they are all so different - then, look at their IQ and how they learn in comparison to each other.
Why can not one single religion point to one bit of evidence - it's all in the past and based on trust - surely, it can't al be down to trust?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - if an ET entity made contact and we realized we were not alone and if we were told and shown religion was all a scam, how many people would be like - you know what, it kind of makes sense - who were we devoting our live too without any evidence.

Sure, i get it, to have faith in goodness, well that's nice.

I believe the Bible, in mind, tells of 'alien' contact - just not in those specific terms. They were treated as Gods, appeared as Gods. Maybe even requested to be seen as Gods.
I also believe a lot of the Bible can be dismissed, in the sense that it is nothing more than a story.

The universe is too big, for just us.

a reply to: magicrat

The gist of your post is "historical belief in supernatural beings, therefore aliens."

That is reductionist to an extreme. It is based on zero evidence, only faith, as are all of these equally competing beliefs:

* Supernatural beings encountered in the Koran, Torah, Bible, etc. could be genuine angels
* Or they could be records of schizophrenia
* Or they could authentic demons
* Or they could be glitches in the Matrix
* They could be illusions of a pagan trickster god otherwise forgotten

In other words, we don't know what they are and anyone who claims they do know without proof has the credibility of a weird guy in Ohio who keeps 50 lions and tigers in cages. Which is to say, none at all.

a reply to: Nicorette
How do you know how many lions and tigers I have in cages?

Yeah, I know in a way I'm channeling the crazy hair guy a bit here ("I'm not saying it was aliens... but it was aliens!") but that's not really the gist of my thoughts. I only used the word "aliens" in the title to get people to open the thread (click bait, I believe we call it). As I explained my thoughts, thought, I was careful not to use the word "aliens" anywhere because you're exactly right; I don't have any proof and I can't know for sure.

The gist of my thoughts is more that humanity in general has a shared belief in the existence of some kind of non-human "Beings." We may think of those Beings in different ways (God, Gods, Aliens, Demons, Time Travelers ... and I like that you added schizophrenia, pagan trickster, and glitches in the matrix to the list of possibilities), almost every one of us believes that there is someone (or something) out there. And if almost all of us believe that, then isn't it logical to assume that that belief is based on something real?

To be clear -- I'm not saying that that's proof. I'm saying it's interesting to think about, and I'm curious to hear what others think.

Thanks--