Islam : What they don`t want you to know

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Too bad you had such an experience Amsterdam, it`s mostly a friendly city, but you have to keep your eyes out for it. The more you go away from the "big" cities the friendlier it gets in The Netherlands, especially if you go towards what they call the "Provence" (the North, South and East side).

I`m aware of the homeless, I used to be friends with some of them and gave them a roof over their head at my place occasionally in the winter.

for the most part i had a great experience in amsterdam,it was just 1 night after midnight i ran into trouble,i was there for a couple of weeks...there is always 1 bad apple

Another Islamophobia thread eh? I think they call that hook line and sinker if I'm not mistaken.

a reply to: RamsOnTop

Mistakes are easily made if your not reading a thread.

a reply to: RamsOnTop

The problem with us humans is that we have limited lifespans and cognition. We can't grasp reality, hence we make a model of it. And most people neither have the wits nor the time to dig that the model is NOT reality and therefore think that people that use other models to cope with the same reality are fools a best (and discardable enemies at worst). For examplem Koopmans represents a partially fundamentalist movement himself: Science. See, if you would ask Scientists the same question: if they believed what they felt was more important: Scientific law or Dutch law - well, the answer would probably be "Scientific Laws can not be broken so the question is irrelevant (!)".

Maybe we should act more like Charles Fort who wrote: "I conceive of nothing, in religion, science, or philosophy, that is more than the proper thing to wear, for a while."

Of course, that's all nice and academic - but how about the real world? Well, I can't tell you either how we should solve this. There are conflicting models in the world and both sides truly believe their models are correct - up to the point they kill each other. Maybe we should indeed forget about peace and simply shoot down and eliminate what we conceive of as our enemies. But that would not leave many of us, now would it..

Stupid carbon based bipeds. Bah.

I agree with the OP, extremist Islam in Europe is a much bigger problem than many realize. For example, British muslims:

Nearly a third of 16 to 24-year-olds believed that those converting to another religion should be executed, while less than a fifth of those over 55 believed the same.

Source

Or the supposedly moderate people on a muslim conference in Norway agreeing with stoning.

Extremists are not a "tiny minority", but a substantial fraction, in double digit percentages.

a reply to: NthOther

Islam is incompatible with Western priorities.

Yes, I agree.

That in no way makes it inferior,

Didn't say they were inferior....just different......and the two are a combustible mixture.

....nor does it mean that they want to wipe out the West simply because they don't buy into it.

Are you sure?
The teachings of Islam state that Muslims must work towards Islamic control over the whole world - that is undeniable if taking the words of the Koran literally like Muslims are taught to.

And if they don't 'buy into it' why do so many move to 'the West'?

They seek to use our freedoms against us to deny us those self same freedoms as they seek to impose their Law and their religion on us.

Sure, this isn't all Muslims, but the majority are complicit due to their silence and at times compliance.

Why is it incumbent upon them to prove to you that all Muslims aren't terrorists?

Because the only terrorists that are threatening the security of my country at present are Muslims - fact.

It's probably as simple as them not giving a damn what anyone else thinks. Nor should they.

Why should they give a damn about what their foster country thinks?
The nation that has given them haven, fed them, clothed them, given them a life far exceeding that which they left - why should they give a damn what that nation thinks of them?

It is not the "good" Muslim community's responsibility to denounce the "bad" Muslim community so that you can feel better and more convicted about the superiority of Western society.

If thinking that 'Western society', with all of its faults, is superior than that which we would endure under Sharia Law then Yes, I am guilty.
If thinking that 'Western society', with all of its faults, is superior than the places where many of these Muslims have fled then Yes, I am guilty.

'Western society' is far from perfect - but its a damn sight better than some, if not most at present.

Who thinks who is superior to whom, anyway?

I think you've got this arse about tit - its those who seek to impose their will and their Law upon me who think they are superior.
Islam teaches that they are superior to any other religion / society.
Yet you conveniently choose to ignore this basic tenet of Islamic faith.
Islam teaches its followers from birth that THEY are the one's who are superior to kaffirs.

So when you talk about 'superiority' I suggest you try to weigh both sides of the argument up first.

originally posted by: buster2010

There was also Jews and Christians killing people long before there was a US or Israel so what's your point? Israel and America attacking these nations and America putting bases in lands that many Muslims consider holy to them is the main reason for the Muslims hostility towards America and Israel.

Patently untrue. Propaganda disguised as fact. My point was, people use this as an excuse for Muslim atrocities, as if they needed one. As if you were actually looking for a point. Here's one for you, Muslims don't need a reason to kill, they do so because they can.

originally posted by: BlackNWhite

where did i say that Muslims werent killing people ? Knee-jerk reaction much ?
I was just stating the obvious why Muslims dont trust Jews and why they believe the West is trying to destroy Islam.
I mean, the West has been bombing Muslim countries for the last 20 years, Jews have been slaughtering Palestinians for long time now, so what is so strange about Muslims not trusting Jews ? How many Americans trust a Muslim these days ?

No knee-jerk at all. Hostile yourself eh? You and other Muslim apologists seem to have a distinct lack of historical knowledge. Muslims have always killed people, they have always hated Jews, since before there even WAS an Islam, since before there even WAS an israel! And they only hate the West because it embraces Christ. Listen to their leaders, they tell you flat out, there will only be peace when ALL THE WORLD accepts Allah, until then, there will always be wars, and there will always be apologists telling decent people that it's all their fault that whack-jobs from other countries are killing people.

I don't consider having faith in the Koran a fundamentalist viewpoint. Perhaps the professor considers all religion to be bad. a reply to: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: Parthin
I don't consider having faith in the Koran a fundamentalist viewpoint. Perhaps the professor considers all religion to be bad. a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I don`t think so.

He seems to just have researched at what percentage of Muslims and Christians he thinks are having a fundamentalist world view. Nothing seems to indicate he did it from an agenda other than to make it transparent.

I find it however remarkable to see what people actual come up with not wanting to look at it the way it is.

But I`m not surprised, lots of people are creating an artificial womb with their minds in which they reside for protection of themselves against this harsh world.

I think this isn`t something which they want to know as being true, and by so their minds will find ways to justify seeing this as not being reality.

a reply to: ArchPlayer

Persian's weren't Muslim...

en.wikipedia.org...

I think you are confusing The Persian Empire with the Arabs who overthrew it in the 7th or 8th century.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Too bad you had such an experience Amsterdam, it`s mostly a friendly city, but you have to keep your eyes out for it. The more you go away from the "big" cities the friendlier it gets in The Netherlands, especially if you go towards what they call the "Provence" (the North, South and East side).

I`m aware of the homeless, I used to be friends with some of them and gave them a roof over their head at my place occasionally in the winter.

for the most part i had a great experience in amsterdam,it was just 1 night after midnight i ran into trouble,i was there for a couple of weeks...there is always 1 bad apple

We missed out train out of Central Station in Amsterdam back to Frankfurt a few years ago when I was there (the tickets were in German and we got the AM/PM switched). So, without a hotel or hostel room we had to tough it out overnight on the streets with our luggage.

The funny thing about Amsterdam is that nearly *everything* closes down super early. The streets were practically dead as we wandered around looking for a place to get something to eat. The only place that did seem to have anything "open" was the Redlight District.

We weren't harassed or bothered as we got lost down all the alleys and streets. In a way, it was kind of nice. During the day in Amsterdam we constantly were nearly being run over by buses, taxis, trains, or bikes.

I didn't really see any homeless people at all. The next morning we were on the first train out of Central Station to Frankfurt. I was oh so glad when things started to open back up in the morning, as we were starving and cold. You'd think at least one automat would be open 24-7 -- but we couldn't find one!

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Most places need to close at some time by law now more as it used to be (late 80s and 90s). And if it was on a Saturday, till recently Sundays were for God, while actual not many people go to churches anymore, but we had a Christian political party which use to have a great deal of influence.

There a few streets in the inner city where it was bad to go in the 70s,80s,early 90s, but they cleaned it up somewhat. If it was during the winter shelters are open. You guys could have just gone there and would have had it nice and warm.

Excellent discussion. Whilst nothing in this world is pure (and so there are fundamentalists nuts on all sides) there are far more fundamentalist nuts subscribing to Islam, than any other religion I know. It's not just...
1. When was the last time a Christian beheaded a hostage?
2. But when did a Christian last think its ok to rape-molest someone, for being immodestly dressed?
3. When did a Christian last force someone to wear a veil?

Christianity is dying in Europe, church attendance falls, and whilst many people say they are Christian, they can hardly quote the Bible. The same cannot be said of either Islam, or its followers. Islam (being a younger religion) seems to have better perfected the technique of brainwashing is followers, and there is half the problem.

The other half of the problem is that Muslims tend to enter the country poor (and due to their culture) remain poorer longer than any other minority. Poverty has always been a catalyst for religious extremism.

I am ready for to vote for a form of Mccarthyism against suspected extremists. Of course I want fair justice for anyone brought under the law, but fair to me means trial by jury on whether to revoke citizenship. I don't care if they're born here either. Ultimately those who hate European civilization (by their own words and deeds) need to be removed from it, before they perpetuate the problem, they are causing, any further.

Can anyone hazard a guess as to how many personnel IS may have?

originally posted by: Parthin
I don't consider having faith in the Koran a fundamentalist viewpoint. Perhaps the professor considers all religion to be bad. a reply to: BornAgainAlien

All religions ARE bad. They make faith the primary edifice in a house of cards.

While faith can help promote outcomes, negative or positive, in the main they result in over-pursuit of goals. Adherents don't know when to quit. What's better than MORE faith, if faith works?

What we discover is that all religions foster stagnancy. They already KNOW EVERYTHING THAT NEEDS TO BE KNOWN. Makes it difficult to modify/improve/evolve chucklehead believers into being true adults. It helps prolong their adolescent innocence but maturity forever evades them.

Faith can help you get through hard times, but it is not the faith that does it. It's YOU. If you made legos gods, materially what is the difference between that and the supreme being in it's effect upon outcomes?

We need to believe in ourselves, in teamwork and that individuals matter.

I always wondered how it would have worked out if Europeans had built sewerage plants instead of temples, basilicas and cathedrals. "Smells a little funky but the art work is great!"

a reply to: Freeborn

The same MEian attitude pervades the Hebrews. Look up goy.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Radicals can always be deported back to their county of origin.
Why not?
Are Atheists going to other countries and becoming fundamental?
Have you met an atheist who would be ready to kill and murder to protect Atheism?

a reply to: largo

The same MEian attitude pervades the Hebrews. Look up goy.

Yes, but Jews don't seek to convert everyone to their religion - by whatever means necessary - unlike Islam.
It is incredibly hard to get a Formal Conversion to Judaism and the more fundamental Jews expressly forbid it.

Many Jews do have an inherent sense of superiority, but they seem more concerned with maintaining their own purity and self-preservation etc rather than conversion and expansion.

Some may say they use more nefarious means to gain dominance over the world - the Rothschilds, Central Banks and control of commerce etc - but that's a whole different discussion and one for another time and place.

Got to say I've never had much first hand experience of Jews.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Muslims dancing in the street with 9/11

Are you referring to Palestinians Dancing on 9/11?

Faked and Debunked