50 Things About Millennials That Make Corporate America [snip] Its Pants

a reply to: nenothtu

Thank you for that. It's true that we have a historically dark pattern of conflict resolution or consensus cultivation. I've been researching the human problem for a good while and the process reminded me of peeling an onion. Took a while to get to what I think is the core (if I'm even there, or if it even resembles an onion at all) and I believe the core problem to most human issues is fear. We are magnificent beings but somewhere we got real scared and started doing really squirly stuff to each other. We usually get scared when our basics are threatened. I've found there can be abundance in sustainable living systems that were at one time considered "utopian" or "pie in the sky" but with the internet these are shown to not only be possible, but easily attainable with a little sweat and community (both local and internet). This is optimism breathed back into a previously pessimistic gen y line-tower.

originally posted by: Radekus
a reply to: dawnstar
It all started with the boomers pointing fingers at the youth
Expecting them to make it in the worst economical situation
Since the 1930ies. Theres a problem when you cant even find a minimum wage job.

Yup, that's a problem, alright. Not a new one, but a problem, all the same. I found myself in the same boat as a stranger in Cleveland, OH, at the tail end of the 70's, which is why I embarked on my overseas career path. Couldn't find a job to save my ass (literally save it) here in the US, so I went where the work took me.

My dear old dad did the same thing at the tail end of the 50's - couldn't find work at home, so went where the work was, although his migration took him to urban factories.

Good thing I moved to where I can actually survive on my own.
Might even buy a run down house I can fix up because I know how to.
Back in the old city, that was a fantasy. Cheap roach infested appartments were the things one aspired for.

There ya go! That's how it's done!

This time last year, I was flopping in a Kansas City flop-house, and had just found one part time job after an exhaustive job hunt involving hundreds of applications (which is easier to do now than it was 30 years ago, thanks to the internet), and was just ahead of getting a second job to go along with it. One was gotten on-line, and the other on-foot, employing persistence and annoyance to get it. The jobs were there, I just had to dig through mountains of crap to find them, and, in the case of the second one, keep poking it with a stick until it said "awright, dammit!"

The flop-house room was cheap, but didn't have roaches - we had centipedes instead. I reckon they ate all the roaches.

Now, a year later, we've parlayed those three jobs (mine and the missus's) into a different situation, in a different place... without centipedes. It's not yet optimal, of course, but I don't expect it ever will be, until I'm dead. The road never ends until the day you run yourself into it.

Wow. Can Russia or China please invade us now? This attitude...ugh. People in my generation are so entitled to this rainbow utopia where no one has to work and be unhappy. Because happiness is a human right...right? Just wow. Yes, one or two good invasions and maybe just a smidgen of plague. You can argue the moral merits...it would produce a more worldly and less ignorant group of people. The untold masses of people that have been born in, survived in, and died in dirt over the ages are having a hearty laugh on the other side at these naive, squishy, emotional children. Born in 88, right here.

a reply to: AK49erdss

You sound like a very happy person

a reply to: dawnstar

I'm kinda screwed if that's the case, since I won't work for unions any more, after my stint with the SEIU. It's become a matter of principle - theirs aren't mine.

You've hit upon another area, though, where younger people have the advantage in the job market. No one wants to hire an old fart "near retirement age", because they figure he or she is just going to retire shortly, so what's the point? It's not all roses for anyone - younger people are not by their lonesome in having handicaps in the job market, and being old isn't as breezy as the youngsters make it out to be - but one day, God willing, they'll find that out for themselves.

There is for all practical purposes a zero job market for old, used up gunslingers. that calls for further diversification. The field my sister is nudging me towards is tech, specifically IT security, because for some odd reason I have an aptitude in that direction. Don't ask me why - nature can be cruel when it comes to playing jokes. There are hella free education resources in that field, but NO paid internships that we've been able to uncover. There is, of course, a solution to that, but the solution necessarily involves continuing to eat during the learning period... which often means doing crap jobs for low pay, crap jobs that don't require much thought - which, luckily enough, is just about ALL crap jobs.

There's always a way, you just have to point yourself in the direction that way goes, get to moving, and keep on steppin' until you get there - which is where I am.

Again.

a reply to: MarlinGrace

Yessss, my thoughts exactly. How does someone write a list like this up seriously, without reading it back and realizing "Hmmm people might not buy the notion that me and my generation are the best that ever was, just for existing." I just cant read it with a straight face. But yet again, these are the kids that all got trophies no matter how much they sucked at whatever they were doing.

All of you guys are missing something so obvious as a millenial (hate that word) myself we aren't any diffrent from you we were shaped from the culture we grew up about and the reason why we seem more stubbon is because we can talk to you guys on an equal playground through a medium called guess what: the internet

a reply to: TDawgRex

We're about the same age, and that's pretty much all I want, too. Must've been something in the water back in the day.

I'm running into a few of the same ordinances you mentioned, but damn few of them, and for the most part I just ignore them and do what I want anyhow. Way out here, no one ever comes 'round to check, anyhow.

Way back when, I had a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's permit. It was issued by the FCC, for life. They don't do that any more. I was considering getting a job at a radio station with it, then realized that I don't seem to have the physical paper any more - got shuffled in a move somewhere, I reckon. Can't get a new one now, because they don't issue them any more, so here I am.

Acorns are falling so thick around here that it sounds like the inside of a popcorn popper whenever the wind blows. that means plenty of deer to eat this year.

Survival - it's what's for supper. Always has been. The means occasionally change up - you just have to roll with them.

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: nenothtu

No why like what is there to be angry about?

There's always something to be angry about - every generation finds SOMETHING to get pissed off about.

Even Jefferson said that the US should never go 20 years without some kind of revolution, and he's a REALLY old fart!

Great deflection.

You don't want to respond because your going to have to talk about the same exact issues we are talking about in this thread.


YOU made the observation now give me a strait answer.

Well hell! What is it you want me to say? War? Famine? Pestilence? Economic downturns? Which of these are a brand new problem, never seen before on the face of the Earth? Which of them are unique to Millenials, that no one else has ever had to deal with or try to survive?

I'll tell you what - it's your thread, you set the topic, and I'll roll with it. Tell me what the never-before-seen issues are, and we'll have at it with that. Please be specific - I'm old, ya know, and us old guys get impatient with puzzles.

What are these brand-newly-invented, never-before-seen issues that no one but Millenials has yet had an opportunity to get pissed off about?

I made the statement that there is always something to get pissed off about, and you evidently think the standard, age-old reasons are insufficient, that there are brand new reasons to riot - so what are they?

Educate an old man.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: nenothtu

You are a master of deflection and clever quick witted responses with nothing constructive to add.

Always a great tactic to scream "deflection!" when the simple answers are not the ones you want to hear... how many times have you done that now?

Mine too. My dear old dad had a measured IQ of 194, yet quit school in the seventh grade, and always regretted that. So he hammered into me the importance of an education. What he DIDN'T say was "go into hyper debt to get one". Paying back 4X what you borrow qualifies as hyper-debt to me. See, there's a difference between getting an education and getting fleeced (although that can be an education in itself!).

My parents have said the same thing, don't take loans. I've actually stuck to that, despite many years of school and believe me it is not easy the temptation is always there... I have jumped through some real hoops to avoid them such as going homeless to make tuition payments and going to bed hungry every night for a decade because there's no money for food, and I sleep on the floor because there's no money for a bed (but atleast I'm not homeless these days). On top of that I have had to be quite frugal with which schools I attend, cost is the #1 concern. I've done all of these things but it doesn't mean everyone can. Just on the basis of cost it's a solution that by default can only work for a minority of students. When more people flock to a lower priced school the tuition rates go up and it's no longer priced lower due to the higher demand. But the IQ thing... I'm not quite 194 (though measuring criteria have changed over the years) but I'm very high lets just say that the first thing anyone who has a high IQ learns is that IQ is one of the most worthless numbers ever created.

I don't believe those are the only jobs available, at all, but let's run with it as if it were factual. What you've got to do in that case is live for now - take the job, eat, and plot and plan like a schemin' demon to get a better one first chance you get - then make the chance.

The rest, the "percents", is just statisitics. As I said before, don't be a statisitc. Statistics are what people use to justify failure - DO NOT accept failure. That involves not quoting statistics to yourself to make yourself feel better. You're not supposed to feel better, you're supposed to succeed in whatever plans you generate.

Spoken like someone who doesn't understand statistics. Saying 90% of businesses fail means 10% of people aren't going to fall into that number. Everyone is a statistic either for or against any given point. You can try your best to be on one side or the other of any given statistic but everyone is doing the same thing. Some people will fail and by definition most people are average or below average. Life needs to provide for more than just the exceptional people. As far as not accepting failure goes, I push myself quite hard, I've been valedictorian, I've been at the top of my class, I've won multiple awards (and not participation awards either). But you know what? Those don't mean a thing, it's all about what you have the opportunity to do and the opportunity for jobs in this country is quite poor, as I said before we have a 37% real unemployment rate. I don't know the precise value offhand but in my generation it's even higher. Over 50% of us that have graduated college are unemployed... my solution is to finish learning everything I need to know and then start my own company, that can provide jobs for me and a few other people. How many can do that? If you take the idea that only the better performing people can make a company that's 1 in 3, we know 90% of companies fail so that's 1 in 30 that can make a successful business. The average size of a small business is 5 employees so that's 6 people out of every 30 that have jobs. We need more than that.

It appears that "politics" mean different things to the two of us. I spent an inordinate amount of time during my misspent youth fighting folks who insisted on mixing the two, trying to conflate a political system with an economic one. They (apparently) ultimately failed, but sure put a hurt on their own people while they were riding.

At the end of the day politics is all about what you're doing and who will pay for it. Wars primarily erupt over ideology among the masses, but it's economics that incentivize nations to fight.

Agreed - now how does that impact YOU, and your quest for meaningful work?

Don't be average.

If I'm not average, two others are in my place. Those other two people need opportunity as well. Why am I the only one that deserves to have a meaningful life? Isn't that simply saying I'm entitled to more than them because I'm better? That's not a philosophy I or most others in my generation adhere to.

During that time, I managed to find ways to work a variety of jobs, usually either between colleges, or, for some of the lower-paying jobs, concurrently with college. I managed to work full time at a crap job at Lowes, and at the same time go full time to a university, and get my studies done. You ain't going to believe this, which is the only reason I'm telling it, but I also managed to stay alcoholically self-medicated most of that time, AND managed to chase women.

Or perhaps you had easy classes? What was the graduation rate of your school and your program? My current program has a graduation rate of 8%, out of every 100 people 70 flunk out in year 1, 10 in year 2, 8 in year 3, and 4 in year 4.

here's a bit of advice, for free - you'll have more success fixing your community first than you will trying to tackle the whole country right off the bat.

Start small, think big.

See, we're in agreement here if you look at my post college plan. How is that done though? The right legislation (or lack of) needs to be in place in order to create successful companies that can turn things around.

Now about the paid apprenticeships and not being able to find much about them at the DoL - she also told me that paid internships are no more. Said that our Fearless Leader had decided that they take jobs away from someone else, and had them done away with.

Not quite. Paid internships were removed because corporations didn't want to pay to train a workforce anymore. They went to unpaid internships, they aren't everywhere but they're getting more and more common. The next phase has been implemented as well which is internships you pay for. They're generally required by college, cost $X thousand in credit hours but the entire class is you going to work at a company. The company pays the school a small fee to send it an employee, the school then charges the student for that internship. The student works for free. You generally do two semesters of it in any given program where it has been implemented and then when it's done you aren't hired because any wage is more than they would have to give the next person in line.

a reply to: nenothtu

How can you be in and out of retirement and homeless dude?

Your story changes every post.

a reply to: nenothtu

You didn't answer the question.

It was really simple and direct.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: TDawgRex

He won't answer a question about a point that he brought up that's deflection.

The reason he won't answer is because he'll have to agree with on issues when he's here to be clever and win not to find common ground and work to a conclusion.

I gave you the answer - not my problem if you didn't like it.

Personal responsability has nothing to do with me.

Would it be mean if I said I actually believe that?

Here's the deal - I've not said "personal responsibility" to you for several pages now, yet you keep going back to that, like a dog to it's own vomit. How is it you are defining "deflection" so that it doesn't apply to yourself?

I'm here to discuss larger issues affecting the greater community as a whole.

And I'm going to tell you again, for the umpteenth time, that "greater communities" are made up of individuals. Just look around your "greater community" and see if that isn't so. It's STILL not my problem if you don't like the answers I provide. Don't like 'em? Get your own, then.

Being old doesn't automatically qualify you as wise.

No, but being young does. I know that, because i was once young (wasn't BORN old, you know!) and I remember just how blindingly brilliant I was back then. Oddly, I see the same thing now, in others. Damned shame how age makes one stupid, isn't it? Seems it ought to be just the other way around - another of those cruel jokes of nature, I reckon.

There are real issues facing the western world and unless we talk about them and come to conclusions then nothing's going to happen.

My god.

Well, that's where I think you're wrong - something is gonna happen, whether folks talk and conclude or not. It always has, and always will. The world doesn't just stop because a kid is crying.

it's not that you're really afraid that "nothing is going to happen", it's that you're afraid you won't be at the top of the heap of what happens if you don't shape it yourself...

... and that's, generally speaking, absolutely a fact. You won't unless you do.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: TDawgRex

Non of you have a real point of view..
Your point of view is personal responsability that's all.

No.

that's not "all", it's a starting point, though.

Here's the problem - you've got to actually get past the starting point to actually get started.

The common ground is the fact that there's no manufacturing base left,

Restart one.

more people in prison the. Ever,

Either don't do crime, or don't get caught.

higher percentage of college graduate debt, and the many other things that have been brought up that the three or four of you won't admit to actually be happening.

I'm pretty sure I've acknowledged student loans and debt - it's not like unicorns, you kinda have to acknowledge the existence. The cure is not to get into it - prevention. After you're already in it, the cure becomes much more painful.

But those aren't real issues they are made up fallacies people use to accept failure right?

No.

Telling themselves it's OK to fail because, like everyone else is doing it, too, using the numbers to show themselves that, THAT is how they do that.

Rejecting failure is a bit more complex than accepting it. You have to first accept failure, then get up and hit it again. In that way, rejecting failure is sort of simple - you simply don't stop until you either win or drop. Most people stop at saying "it's ok, 'cause everyone else did, too".

originally posted by: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

I know a lot of Millineal people, and I can say, lazy they are not. They are intelligent, aware, and have enough self respect that they aren't going to let a bunch of old people in suits with money dictate their values and lives.

Those "old people in suits with money" were hippies back in the sixties - and they weren't going to let a bunch of old people in suits with money dictate their values and lives, either.

Almost word-for word.

And the beat goes on. (hat tip to Sonny and Cher for that).

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
The list reminds me of the 60's except the new technologies.

My thoughts exactly. Most of this list is nothing new. For any group to think they're special because they break the rules, etc., that's just silly. This list just means you're human.

NO!

Say it ain't so!

We, in agreement on something?

That's dangerous!

The universe could implode!

This is worse than dividing by zero!

As a millennial myself, I have shared the same thought patterns as described in the OP ever since dropping out of high school. I quickly realized how big of a mistake this was if I were to survive (and thrive) in a corporate run world. I've had my share of chosen homelessness, and achieved corporate greatness earning double what anyone else at the time I was 25 was making, and it made me realize a lot.

That realization is to me personally, there's a sacrifice either way you decide to go if you want to be homeless with absolute freedom you still have to face the hardships of earning a meal and a comfortable place to sleep. Otherwise you can adhere to the corporate workforce and enjoy money, and material gain at the expense of feeling stifled, and constantly pressured for time.

You just have to either find something you get paid for that you enjoy doing, or learn how to manage your time effectively to create a healthy balance in your life.

The system isn't going anywhere for awhile, until the millennials grow into managerial positions and run a business however they think it should be ran for their employees.

originally posted by: corvuscorrax

QFT. TDawg nor anyone else will respond to this post because they cant.

Why are you bringing Quantum Field theory into this? Is it not complicated enough already?

Don't look now, but someone did.

a reply to: SlickMcFavorite


That's pretty much the same conclusion I arrived at. Fear makes the world go around, and fear is the number one motivator to get people to do squirrelly stuff to other people. Oh, they deny it, claim they aren't afraid of anything, try to paint it in some other color, ANY other color than fear, but right down at the black core of it, fear is all it is.

Fear is what makes the rich rich - they're afraid of poverty, for all the apparent power they have, fear rules their lives with an iron fist.

Fear is what produces jealousy, greed, envy, pretty much ALL of what the Catholics call the Seven Deadly Sins. At their black core, they are ALL simple fear.

Fear is what causes war - it's not a paradox at all, if you analyze it just a wee bit.

Fear is what causes political division - it's what causes politics, period.

Fear is what brought about economics.

Fear underlies all, and rules all at it's most basic level. If there is anything underlying the fear, I've not found it.

I've never met a truly fearless man, either. I'm pretty sure I don't ever want to.

That would scare me.

I'm not sure about the abundance thing, but it sounds legit on the surface. I don't really want it, though, so someone else can have mine. Abundance isn't my goal. I'm pretty sure that would ruin me altogether.

I don't ever want to become complacent - that's MY fear.