Voting fraud fix

If you vote for somebody in an election or otherwise, you do so because you support them. We should no longer supress who we vote for. If you vote for somebody, everybody should know about it. No more being a pussy and hiding behind a voters box. When you vote, everybody knows who you voted for. This would either bring to light voting fraud or stop it completely.

originally posted by: drz400This would either bring to light voting fraud or stop it completely.

Prove voting fraud is an actual problem first. Oh wait, you can't because it isn't(outside of the right wing echo-chamber).

I would suggest that you have never confronted a situation where the power of intimidation and threat can influence people, but then again your post may well have been just toungue-in-cheek thread.

originally posted by: Manitou

originally posted by: drz400This would either bring to light voting fraud or stop it completely.

Prove voting fraud is an actual problem first. Oh wait, you can't because it isn't(outside of the right wing echo-chamber).

You mean like Bush in 2000? Thought that was proven?
Yeah, it's not limited to Left or Right wing, they all work dirty.

Here's a current thread on the matter www.abovetopsecret.com...

Proving voting fraud went out the door when we moved from small villages to towns, then big villages,..then cities,... oh well too many corruptible people involved,... see ya...

originally posted by: drz400
If you vote for somebody in an election or otherwise, you do so because you support them. We should no longer supress who we vote for. If you vote for somebody, everybody should know about it. No more being a pussy and hiding behind a voters box. When you vote, everybody knows who you voted for. This would either bring to light voting fraud or stop it completely.

If you don't vote for our corporate approved candidate you will lose your job. We have anonymous ballots for a reason.

originally posted by: Manitou

originally posted by: drz400This would either bring to light voting fraud or stop it completely.

Prove voting fraud is an actual problem first. Oh wait, you can't because it isn't(outside of the right wing echo-chamber).

You forget the Black Panthers standing at the polls with billy clubs, they weren't there to welcome Republicans. Even the leader said on video their purpose was to intimated people into voting for Obama.

If you really believe the left doesn't engage in voter fraud you have become a liberal sycophant who can't think for himself.

My fix: international observers at every polling place, no computerized voting, a paper ballot must be inserted into a machine or read by a machine, then both the paper and computerized rechecked by outside international observers or a representative of each party before declaring a winner.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
You forget the Black Panthers standing at the polls with billy clubs, they weren't there to welcome Republicans. Even the leader said on video their purpose was to intimated people into voting for Obama.

Really? How many people were convicted of voter fraud in that case? I don't remember seeing any.

As far as I know, voter fraud makes up 0.02% of all the votes in this country. It's really not enough to change the outcome of any election, furthermore, we have so few people voting in the first place, what kind of indirect democracy are we if we actively prevent people from voting?

Voter fraud is near non-existent and shouldn't even be bothered with when half the country doesn't even vote in the first place.

originally posted by: links234

originally posted by: grandmakdw
You forget the Black Panthers standing at the polls with billy clubs, they weren't there to welcome Republicans. Even the leader said on video their purpose was to intimated people into voting for Obama.

Really? How many people were convicted of voter fraud in that case? I don't remember seeing any.

As far as I know, voter fraud makes up 0.02% of all the votes in this country. It's really not enough to change the outcome of any election, furthermore, we have so few people voting in the first place, what kind of indirect democracy are we if we actively prevent people from voting?

Voter fraud is near non-existent and shouldn't even be bothered with when half the country doesn't even vote in the first place.

No one was convicted because Holder and Obama ordered the matter to be ignored.

Read up on it, there was lots of video evidence, you can see it on you tube, over 90 clips on the outside intimidation and lots of clips of the head of the Black Panthers bragging about it.

we have so few people voting in the first place, what kind of indirect democracy are we if we actively prevent people from voting

So you must think what the Black Panthers did was ok? What if the KKK had done the same thing during the Presidential elections? Would it have been ok then?

We do have rampant voter fraud, not just one party is involved.

We desperately need international observers and not rely solely on computerized voting, but require paper proof (a print out for the person to turn in perhaps of what they voted on) that can be recounted in case of accusations using international observers and/or representatives from both parties.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
We do have rampant voter fraud, not just one party is involved.

We desperately need international observers and not rely solely on computerized voting, but require paper proof (a print out for the person to turn in perhaps of what they voted on) that can be recounted in case of accusations using international observers and/or representatives from both parties.

Show me evidence of 'rampant' voter fraud. Show me any shred of evidence that voter fraud affected the outcome of an election in the last 30 years. It happens on such a small scale in such rare occurrences that it's a joke that we even have to debate it.

I'm not sure about your state or county but a lot of places don't rely entirely on computerized voting. I've actually never voted on a computer, not once. I would like more observers in polling places. Preferably unarmed, I could give a crap about your 'right to carry,' if I'm intimidated by your presence I might not vote. That's unacceptable.

The Black Panther case, is a can of worms, I regret trying to argue with that point because both sides have very valid arguments. At the same time though, that case had absolutely nothing to do with voter fraud. Ultimately, the actions of two people in an urban population would likely have made no difference on the outcome of the presidential election. Remember, the president can win with just 22% of the popular vote.

a reply to: links234

Al Franken. US Senator from Minnesota. 306 vote margin after they found extra ballot boxes in a worker's car. Democrat Secretary of State made several pivotal rulings.

John Kennedy. US President. Won with 1/6 of one percent of the vote. Credited to Chicago and Texas fraud.

On the other hand, some fraud clearly occurred in Cook County. At least three people were sent to jail for election-related crimes, and 677 others were indicted before being acquitted by Judge John M. Karns, a Daley crony. Many of the allegations involved practices that wouldn't be detected by a recount, leading the conservative Chicago Tribune, among others, to conclude that "once an election has been stolen in Cook County, it stays stolen." What's more, according to journalist Seymour Hersh, a former Justice Department prosecutor who heard tapes of FBI wiretaps from the period believed that Illinois was rightfully Nixon's. Hersh also has written that J. Edgar Hoover believed Nixon actually won the presidency but in deciding to follow normal procedures and refer the FBI's findings to the attorney general—as of Jan. 20, 1961, Robert F. Kennedy—he effectively buried the case.

www.slate.com...

a reply to: charles1952

Thanks, I was aware of the Kennedy election, which is why I limited my question to the last 30 years.

The Minnesota election, while close, still, to my knowledge, hasn't put anyone in jail for voter fraud. On top of that just over 1/3 of eligible voters still didn't show up to vote. Why do we have to focus on the few dozen people who may or may not have illegally cast ballots when there's still 10 million who aren't voting at all in Minnesota?

I've said this again and again, voter fraud happens. It happens on such a small scale and so rarely that it's the wrong argument to be having though.

a reply to: links234

Dear links234,

Thanks for your response, but I'm a little confused (which is why they call me Mr. Confusion).

You mention that 10 million didn't vote in Minnesota. My question comes from the fact that the entire population of Minnesota is about 5.5. million. Of the 5.5 million, 3.2 million are registered voters, and in the election which sent (eventually) Al Franken to the Senate, 2.8 million people voted.

So it looks like 400,000 Minnesotans didn't vote.

Now, if there are just 28,000 fraudulent votes, that would have meant a 1% swing in that particular election. Less than 1/20 of one percent would have kept Franken out of office. I don't know what you mean by small scale, it doesn't take much to change an election. And "rarely?" If you mean brought to trial and convicted, that may be true. I think we know that that is a very poor measure of the frequency with which it is committed.

Do we have 11 Million illegal alien deportations each year? We know the problem is vast, but going by convictions, I think we could call that "Small scale and so rarely."

With respect,
Charles 1952

Oh, voting fraud fix? We don't even require voters to have any proof of who they are or where they live. Just have someone (often from party headquarters) vouch for them, plus some photo-shopped utility bills and you have a newly registered voter.

a reply to: charles1952

I believe I've taken your title. I was confused. That 10 million figure was from something else, likely nationwide not voting. I often post with numerous tabs open and misread the number not voting in Minnesota. Now that I've looked some more, Minnesota actually has one of the highest turnout rates in the country, which is great!

Moving on, 28,000 fraudulent votes is huge, I mean...really huge. That would be a serious reason for concern. However, that's not happening. Well, I've seen no evidence of that number. I said somewhere earlier (perhaps here) when voter fraud does occur it's usually found to be less than 0.05%.

As for comparing illegal immigration to voter fraud cases, there's no comparison. We know the numbers that we deport. We know the numbers of returned and removed. We even have a good estimation on how many try to enter on an annual basis. According to one statistic we receive just about 500,000 illegal border crossings per year. The Obama administration has deported about 400,000 per year (more than any other president), so...a really rough estimate would be 80% of illegal immigrants are deported on an annual basis. We're not talking about immigration though.

Yes, I do consider 'evidence' to be cases that are tried and convicted, what other metric should we use? Our gut feeling? Voter fraud cases are prosecuted by county attorneys after being investigated by county sheriff's. It's the job of the Secretary of State to determine who is eligible to vote and who is not. That's why voter registration fraud is so much more prevalent than actual, legitimate voter fraud. It's not some nebulous federal organization taking orders from the White House, but local authorities.

You seem like a pretty reasonable person, I'm sure you can see where I'm coming from.

a reply to: Manitou

Here's a story about my state. www.foxnews.com...

And this is just the ones who were stupid enough to get caught. You wouldn't believe what I saw and heard in that region when I was running for office.

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: Manitou

originally posted by: drz400This would either bring to light voting fraud or stop it completely.

Prove voting fraud is an actual problem first. Oh wait, you can't because it isn't(outside of the right wing echo-chamber).

You forget the Black Panthers standing at the polls with billy clubs, they weren't there to welcome Republicans. Even the leader said on video their purpose was to intimated people into voting for Obama.

I've forgotten nothing. They weren't convicted of anything. They were a pathetic bunch of losers who didn't change anyone's vote. Despite you bringing them up as if they did. Not that it would matter if they had since one person's vote does not a problem make.

originally posted by:grandmakdw If you really believe the left doesn't engage in voter fraud you have become a liberal sycophant who can't think for himself.

Despite conservative panic attacks, voter fraud is not a widespread, or much of any, problem.

No bad idea because it would allow you to sell your vote. In the present system you cannot because the buyer cannot verify that you voted for him.

originally posted by: links234

I'm not sure about your state or county but a lot of places don't rely entirely on computerized voting. I've actually never voted on a computer, not once. I would like more observers in polling places. Preferably unarmed, I could give a crap about your 'right to carry,' if I'm intimidated by your presence I might not vote. That's unacceptable.

The Black Panther case, is a can of worms, I regret trying to argue with that point because both sides have very valid arguments. At the same time though, that case had absolutely nothing to do with voter fraud. .

Two things Where on earth did you come up with right to carry? I never said anything about that, it is your imagination hard at work. Voter intimidation is equal to voter fraud, it is a form of forcibly changing the outcome of an election.

Through the years, and having lived all over the US, I have seen many cases of local voter fraud that got in local news but not the national. It is far more prevalent than you know because most cases are handled at the local level because they are so embarrassing for the government.