How Can Jesus Be God?

a reply to: Logarock

Ooo good one. By the way if you look, there appears to be several entities at the burning bush.

Yes, in the Old Testament we see Jesus as the Angel of the Lord in which God spoke through. Jesus is the Word just like we were told in John 1:14 - "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

Other instances where Jesus, as the Angel of the Lord appeared...

www.lamblion.com...

If I had to wrap this up in one simple verse, I would say...

Mark 12:29

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

This was told to the Israelites on several occasions because they had as much trouble understanding it as some Christians today.

originally posted by: GargIndia
The almighty God has no need to be born as human. Stop believing that God is your Father.

Of COURSE it wasn't for God, it was for us.

Stop believing what religion tells you.

I'll take God's word over religion any day.

God never lies...

Religion on the other hand, [shudder...]

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Logarock

Ooo good one. By the way if you look, there appears to be several entities at the burning bush.

Yes, in the Old Testament we see Jesus as the Angel of the Lord in which God spoke through. Jesus is the Word just like we were told in John 1:14 - "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

Other instances where Jesus, as the Angel of the Lord appeared...

www.lamblion.com...

Well in that case, the bush, it sounds more like Mike to me anyway. Why because he shows up again here and there most notably to Joshua with sword drawn. This is the guy otherwise known as the "terrible and swift sword of the Lord". Although I understand the Jesus as Angel of the Lord theology I have reconsidered it over the years.

yalza me too and here's some pertinent keys for witherto why, ha

Hebrews 1 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Acts 7 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

Galatians 3 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made

Colossians 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels

Hebrews 1 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Daniel 7 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

a reply to: Logarock

Well in that case, the bush, it sounds more like Mike to me anyway. Why because he shows up again here and there most notably to Joshua with sword drawn. This is the guy otherwise known as the "terrible and swift sword of the Lord". Although I understand the Jesus as Angel of the Lord theology I have reconsidered it over the years.

Don't forget that Jesus himself said that he would be returning with a sword in the book of Revelation.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Jesus is God, the Bible said so:

"Hebrews 1:8- But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom."

The Father addresses the Son, as God.

Jesus, the Word, became fully human as well. He was fully divine and fully human. It's what you call a hypostatic union.

Jesus, the man, became a humble servant, making himself lower than the Father. For the Father, while Christ was human, is greater than him. For no servant is greater than his master.

a reply to: GargIndia

Well said. As Master Samael Aun Weor states - we are intellectual animals. In order to become true Human Beings we must do the work on the Path. The hardest but most important relates to alchemy and is the comprehension through meditation and dissolution of the defects (egos). These are the skulls that the god Kali wears around her neck. We need the assistance of the Divine Mother to destroy these defects and become purified. Only then can we become truly Human. This is why Christ said that he was the son of man. So was Buddha, Moses, Krishna, Coetzocoatl, etc.

However, let's not forget that if we can do the Herculean work to become a Human Being then we are closer to the Gods than the animals. And by Gods I mean spiritual Beings not the creative force / energy that pervades the universe (Fohat, Ain Soph, Hyle, Shakti,etc)

a reply to: Titaniumberry

Always check the context of the entire chapter for a clearer understanding
Later in verse 13 it says

But about which of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet”?

That is mentioned back in Psalms 110:1, notice a version of God's name used to distinguish between the two

Yahweh says to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool for your feet."

And again in Matthew 22:44 again a version of God's personal name is used (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)

THE LORD JEHOVAH said to my Lord, 'sit at my right hand until I place your enemies under your feet'?

Going back to that verse in Hebrews (13), he is refereed to as an Angel, which is the only Angel that could ever be equal to this "Lord" ?

The reason for the confusion is this, in Judaism the Hebrew name YHWH (the Tetragrammaton) is usually rendered "the Lord" in English language Old Testament bibles. And Jesus is a Lord but not the "LORD" as the scriptures I have quoted show.

The entire bible needs to be consulted in important matters of doctrine.

originally posted by: Titaniumberry
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Jesus is God, the Bible said so:

"Hebrews 1:8- But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom."

The Father addresses the Son, as God.

Jesus, the Word, became fully human as well. He was fully divine and fully human. It's what you call a hypostatic union.

Jesus, the man, became a humble servant, making himself lower than the Father. For the Father, while Christ was human, is greater than him. For no servant is greater than his master.

As a matter of interest, there is also that verse John 10:35 which says 'If He called them gods, to whom the Word of God came, - and the scripture cannot be broken...' from Psalm 82:6 'I have said, You are gods; and all of you are children of the most High'.

So all of the children of God, including His Son, are gods, in a sense - but not in the same sense as the Father - who said in Isaiah 43:10 ' "You are my witnesses", saith YHWH, "and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me".'

Therefore the Son, as first-born in the creation made by God the Father (Colossians 1:15) , is not and cannot be 'God' in the same sense as the Father is!

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Namaste, friend. Master Jesus is not the "Almighty God" that most people assume. But he is an aspect of God as you and I. You can read a post I made to another thread about this topic here: An Excerpt about God

Master Jesus came here to teach and to help the world evolve into the next level of Spiritual Consciousness. He was a great teacher who ANY of us can become. He showed the way to Christ Consciousness (The ONE Mind of God) so that every walk of life can see that they can also do it. "Christ" is not referring to Jesus The Christ, but a Universal Mind that anybody could access and become ONE with in order to see the Universe as God sees it. Although, anybody can be called "The Christ" once you have reached this Universal Mind.

May God's Peace and Love be with you all.

a reply to: Deetermined

Don't forget that Jesus himself said that he would be returning with a sword in the book of Revelation.

Mmm.
Mmhmm.....

And - "when" exactly? (Oh, wait, I know - "No man knows the date or the hour")
Meanwhile.....the world burns.

WHERE THE HELL IS HE??

a reply to: Maigret

So all of the children of God, including His Son, are gods, in a sense - but not in the same sense as the Father - who said in Isaiah 43:10 ' "You are my witnesses", saith YHWH, "and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me".'

Therefore the Son, as first-born in the creation made by God the Father (Colossians 1:15) , is not and cannot be 'God' in the same sense as the Father is!

You forget that Jesus, the Son, was there in the beginning with God. He was not a creation of God's like we were.

a reply to: ctophil

Master Jesus came here to teach and to help the world evolve into the next level of Spiritual Consciousness. He was a great teacher who ANY of us can become. He showed the way to Christ Consciousness (The ONE Mind of God) so that every walk of life can see that they can also do it. "Christ" is not referring to Jesus The Christ, but a Universal Mind that anybody could access and become ONE with in order to see the Universe as God sees it. Although, anybody can be called "The Christ" once you have reached this Universal Mind.

As humans, we can learn how to be like Jesus the Christ, but we still are not capable of being one mind with God until we are all in God's presence and Jesus has defeated all of God's enemies. When that day comes, then we will have the ability to see things through God's eyes, but it doesn't happen here on earth. We walk with Jesus Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit while we're here on earth, but we won't be of one mind until we all are together away from this imperfect world/earth.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

In the beginning there was the word, and the word was with god and the word was god. This is revering to Jesus. Idk where it is in the bible though

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: ctophil

Master Jesus came here to teach and to help the world evolve into the next level of Spiritual Consciousness. He was a great teacher who ANY of us can become. He showed the way to Christ Consciousness (The ONE Mind of God) so that every walk of life can see that they can also do it. "Christ" is not referring to Jesus The Christ, but a Universal Mind that anybody could access and become ONE with in order to see the Universe as God sees it. Although, anybody can be called "The Christ" once you have reached this Universal Mind.

As humans, we can learn how to be like Jesus the Christ, but we still are not capable of being one mind with God until we are all in God's presence and Jesus has defeated all of God's enemies. When that day comes, then we will have the ability to see things through God's eyes, but it doesn't happen here on earth. We walk with Jesus Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit while we're here on earth, but we won't be of one mind until we all are together away from this imperfect world/earth.

Yes we are capable. Master Jesus was an Avatar. An Avatar is a human being like you and I, but has not lost their memories of where they came from and has all the God abilities intact. He came here to demonstrate that anybody can achieve what he did and much more. Did not the Christian Bible talk about this? Yes indeed.

There are Masters on Earth right now who are very similar to Master Jesus back then. We are not imperfect. It is the Ego or Mind of Man that has put us into that belief system. We are already God's Perfection. Inside of you--there is the Kingdom of Heaven, which has everything you need to raise higher in consciousness, thereby having the side effects of performing miracles and capable of unconditional love, peace, and wisdom at any time. Just remember to not follow the patterns of this world, for this world teaches the Way of Death. Look inside of you for the Way of Life. God is there within us all and can teach us the greatest of things.

So therefore, bring back a remembrance of who you are, since you are not an Avatar so you must remember. Who are you? That is the question. My answer is that you are being capable of God abilities beyond anybody's comprehension. Ye are surely Gods. Namaste, may your day be of great peace and love.

a reply to: ctophil

He came here to demonstrate that anybody can achieve what he did and much more. Did not the Christian Bible talk about this? Yes indeed.

There are Masters on Earth right now who are very similar to Master Jesus back then. We are not imperfect.

I'm SO GLAD you posted this.

I agree. We CAN, and Jesus said so. I get so weary of the defeatists who think we need "The Apocalypse" before we can attain the peace of mind and attitude that he had.

a reply to: ctophil

Both of your posts are spot on. HPB in the Secret Doctrine discusses the Masters, Spiritual Hierarchies, Watchers, Sons of Fire, Sons of Will and Yoga, etc. and gives hints on how to follow in their footsteps. The Masters of the White Lodge forbade her to give out practical exercises of the Initiate. However Master Samael Aun Veor revealed these steps over 60 years later in over 60 books that he wrote.

In synthesis we are all "Fallen" angels who are working our way up through dense matter in order to achieve awakened Consciousness of our own Divinity. Not all of the sparks (the spiritual essence within each of us) from the divine rays will achieve this. Most of us have betrayed our inner Divine Mother and trapped this essence within a legion of egos. To incarnate the Christic Energy we must purify ourselves. This entails meditating on these animal desires, egos, defects, etc.; comprehending them; and then destroying them on all 49 levels of existence. This is the Negredo stage that Alchemists speak about.

Why is it that no "mortal" has pulled aside the Veil of ISIS? Because only a purified Being can lift the Veil of the Divine Mother. We are not worthy to look upon her. We have betrayed her by trapping our consciousness in this material world and egos that we created over many lifetimes.

As you so eloquently stated: "Look inside of you for the Way of Life"

One last point, we were Angels and will be higher than Angels in the future if we follow the Path and do the work. But we are not "Fallen". We all chose this path of involution and evolution into and through matter. This planet is an incubator or better said an arena of ordeals. The work is not found meditating and starving in a cave in the Himalayas. The work / ordeals are given to us in each waking moment here on battlefield Earth. However none of us is given more than we can handle and if we look within we will get the guidance and knowledge that we need.

At the end of every paragraph of the bible there is a reference to the author. John, Matthew, Bush, ect ect.
Not a single line of the bible was written by God or Yeshua. - Boom - Bible is not the word of god. None of the writers of the bible ever witnessed any godly event themselves. So believing anything from the book is 100% historical account is as stupid as believing in Santa Clause. (tons of people write books about him)

Had god actually wanted to say something, he would have made Yeshua pen it down on some unbreakable, iridium covered obsidian protected by a force field. One way to make sure everyone knew its not a fake, create a material that cant be anywhere else in nature. He wouldn't pick a bloke like Moses who chisels it in a stone slab, destroys it right after writing it.

Fun idea, going to go off on a tangent, because i am bored.

I am going to forget my previous words for the moment and assume the opposite. Hypothetical situation, we got "Jesus" as you call him, son of god, with cool super powers, be nailed to a cross and hang up by it. This guy with powers that potentially let him escape this predicament, was just hanging there for days. Now if he was actually nailed to the cross the pain he experienced must be over 8000. Under incredible pain, i would choose involuntary to use my superpowers (if i had any) to get off the dumb cross. But no, this guy stayed on the cross.
He did not get off either because he didn't want to or couldn't do it.
Option 1 suggests he might now have been nailed to the cross or there was a foot support so his pain was not as bad as hanging by nailed limbs.
Option 2 suggests he had no god powers and could not do anything.

Let us use option 2 as a base for a hypothesis. Yeshua was 100% human. Any indication of him using his powers was simply asking God to do it for him. (Daddy, gib us food. Daddy, heal this dude). Part of the bible is him crying to his father saying something like "why did you abandon me". If god was not there to let junior use magic then it would explain Heyzouse not jumping off the cross and running to Mexico.

As a foot note for Christians. Worshiping a cross....really? Superstition aside. Crucifixion is a horrible torture and murder process invented by Roman's or even someone before them. When going to church, the symbol people pray to is a dead man on a cross, covered in blood. Dead after suffering off and on the cross. You wear suffering around your neck. If you want to worship some guy whose proper name is barely mentioned use just a picture or statue of him. "Died for our sins?" Why? (well if he did then i am sinless and can go murder and pillage nonstop till i die and go to heaven, even under Catholic faith. There is NO way i can go to hell if some other guy took the fall = excuse for all evil in the world right now.) Bible still talks of hell, but if no one goes there then why even mention it. If i can go to hell then i have sinned, but J-buddy already died for that sin, so i am clean!... Contradiction? in the Bible? I interpreted it differently? There are different interpretations? Bible is not written as plainly as 10 commandments? 10 commandments should have had a footnote, saying "Or Else" so people would have known reason and consequences. But if the bible would be as plain as 10 commandments, it would not have any mentions of building Churches and confessing sins, eating crackers and letting underage kids drink wine. (they never offer cheese) Moving on to churches. Why do we need a pope? Why does a pope need his balls felt up to make sure he can be pope? If Pope spoke to god, maybe the big guy would have veto-ed joining Hitler? Italy is part of axis, C church is part of Italy. Catholic church was related to attempted genocide. Why do we need Vatican? It serves no purpose other than being Popes personal Hostel. America as a country abuses god more than Romans abused Jesus. Just look up how many politicians say "god bless america" on daily basis, and how many times god is mentioned anywhere in U.S. (on any dollar bill, it says in god we trust. Jesus is never mentioned). So people in religion and government cannot even decide whose name to use or who to pray to?

This is why i am not religious. Bible does have a message of being nice, doing good. I don't need a "or else" clause like hell in the bible to do good stuff when i can. I do good just because i want to. I also am not against religion in general but i am 100% against zealots who go "hurr durr" can we talk to you about jesus christ or spend every sunday in a church, praying and feeling sorry because we did not wear promise rings and have a personally intimate relationship with some guy named Jesus. Against every asshole who claims god is on his side, regardless whether his balls are outside or inside.

...i'm not sure what topic i am in anymore.