Hamas admits to kidnapping three Israeli teens

a reply to: Not Authorized

These things do not help him entertain the true reality. He is of the type that think it would be better if all Arabs should be removed or annihilated for their defensive reactions.

He thinks that if you're stronger and you can enforce your will on someone else for a better life, you should. His mentality was similar to early Americans that wanted native land for free. The type who thought if you can have a slave, you should.

I accept he may have risen above these thought processes, but the fact that he indemnifies israel for brutality indicates it's of the same origin.

AAC.

a reply to: AnAbsoluteCreation

Those that don't know, are not to blame. I thought the same way at one point. It's OK.

My focus, is the root cause. The 5% of the spiritual parasites. The ones who know what they are doing, yet, do it anyway. They forgot the master, may come back at any time.

originally posted by: AnAbsoluteCreation
a reply to: CommandoJoe

No. Already denied by both sides. This video means nothing but more weak justifications for the slow slaughter of the people of Palestine. No matter how hard you try, you will not convince educated people that Israel is not the evil aggressor.

Stick to the simple church goers who support a Israel blindly because they think they're in the wrong only religiously.

AAC

Then how about this one?

In Yahoo News interview, Meshaal condemns murder of journalists, admits Hamas killed Israeli teens

Meshaal acknowledged for the first time that Hamas members — but not the group's political leadership — were behind the slaying of three Israeli settlers on the West Bank in June. But he defended the murders as a legitimate action against Israeli "illegal" occupation.

I've never said Hamas being responsible for the murders is the reason for hitting Gaza - the thousands of rockets fired at Israel is justification enough for that.

a reply to: CommandoJoe

Do you know what Coram Nobis means? It means your paperwork is out of order. I see the first offense.

Ignoring that Israel is a recognized military occupation, including using Hamas as a scapegoat to justify your sins, will not win my heart and mind. Here, let me Google this for you too. Still thinking of you too.

Would you like a mass purge of names from that "book" next? My Sparpie is willing.

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: CommandoJoe

Do you know what Coram Nobis means? It means your paperwork is out of order. I see the first offense.

Ignoring that Israel is a recognized military occupation, will not win my heart and mind. Here, let me Google this for you too. Still thinking of you too.

Would you like a mass purge of names from that "book" next? My Sparpie is willing.

So you think those killings by Hamas are justified and they are not terrorists?

a reply to: CommandoJoe

I'm saying you are a military dictatorship, bound by laws of war. An occupation. International laws and treaties are being violated left and right.

They are your scapegoat when more land is needed. The methodology and goal is clear.

False flag is the best terminology used to describe your example.

Tell us, when can the Palestinian people return to the homes that were stolen from them? How about war crimes, crimes against humanity, and other related trials focused on the ethnic cleansing IE, genocide documented and carried out as well?

Carried out willingly and without care, just 3 "that"? Right. Whats that smell?

I'm "observing" more holes than Swiss cheese in all of your stories now. Please note, some historical variables have changed because of you, and your own lack of brotherhood against your fellow human beings. Yeah, blame for that has been shifted to another group. Can you figure out which one? Congratulations.

Coexist.

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: CommandoJoe

I'm saying you are a military dictatorship, bound by laws of war. An occupation. International laws are being violated left and right.

I am no such thing - I'm simply a person, and not even an Israeli at that... But go ahead and keep avoiding the question - Do you support the murder of the 3 Israeli teens? Are you saying that because of Israels actions, the murder of innocent teens is ok? That's what this thread is about after all, not the entirety of the conflict.

They are your scapegoat when more land is needed. Eradication of Palestine as the goal is clear.

False flag is the termonoligy best used to describe your example.

Why do you think Israel needs more land? Have you ever been here? Take a look at Israel on Google Earth, or the satellite view on Google Maps. There is tons of open space here - the population centers are fairly concentrated and they don't have sprawling suburbs all over like in the US.

As to the false flag allegation, you really think Israel concocted the murder of their own citizens as an excuse to harass some people in the West Bank? To what end? What do they gain? And then they convince Hamas to take credit?

Tell us, when can the Palestinian people return to the homes that were stolen from them? How about the ethnic cleansing IE, genocide documented and carried out as well? Carried out willingly and without care, just 3 "that"? Right.

Again with the genocide claim - If Israel wanted to commit genocide there would be millions of Palestinians dead instantly. And why not start with the Palestinians living within Israel (that are Israeli citizens)? If Israel has it in for all the Palestinians why not first eject them from Israel or just kill them all?

I'm "observing" more holes than Swiss cheese in all of your stories now. Please note, some historical variables have changed because of you, and your own lack of brotherhood. Congratulations.

So we're talking about a terrorist act by Hamas and you bring up quantum mechanics? What world do you live in?

Learn co existence.

I have no problem co-existing. I do take exception to terrorists trying to kill me, especially when I have done nothing to harm Palestinians or anyone else...

a reply to: CommandoJoe

What gain? Start here.

Why steal land? Start here.

Incremental genocide often goes undetected. That is why it is not "instant". Same thing, different terminology. Start here.

As for supporting then garbage? Nope. Hamas is the scapegoat. They get marching orders from someone. Two wrongs, do not make a right. I've stressed this is a travesty for both cultures. Note, not race.

I'm glad you want to coexist too.

Love your question about which world. I think about that, a lot.

Prove your sincerity. Address every point in this video.

originally posted by: CommandoJoe
Do you support the murder of the 3 Israeli teens?

Nope but I also don't blame enemies for the actions of another. First off Israel said Hamas did it. Then they siad they didn't do it. Now they are saying that yes they did. It's a farce and anyone with a lick of logic can see it.

Are you saying that because of Israels actions, the murder of innocent teens is ok?

I think you've got that backwards.

That's what this thread is about after all, not the entirety of the conflict.

No this is about propaganda being spewed forth to justify the murder of WAY more than 3 teens.

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: CommandoJoe

What gain? Start here.

Why steal land? Start here.

So you think Israel wants to recreate the biblical boundaries of Israel?
From your link:

What are the precise borders of the land promised to Abram’s descendants? The Lord makes them perfectly clear. Like any modern-day land purchase, the deed indicates the boundaries of the land given: from the Nile river (which is mainly modern Egypt and Sudan) to the Euphrates (modern-day Iraq).

To ensure that there is no doubt about the land’s boundaries, Scripture also indicates the different groups of people that occupy it: "...the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, Amorites, Canaanites, Girga#es and Jebusites.” We know that these peoples lived in what is today Egypt, Sudan, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, part of Asian Turkey, and of course all of Israel, including Gaza and the West Bank.

I don't see Israel being able to take over all the modern day countries above, and I see no indication that is their desire. It certainly isn't the desire of any Israeli's I've spoken with - They simply want to live in peace. Especially since they gave the Sinai back to Egypt to make peace... Why give all that land (which is rich with oil) up if your ultimate goal is to have it anyway? Israel has a strong military, but they don't have the #'s to take all that land, and they would have to kill millions to even attempt to keep all that land. The modern world would never allow that to happen.

They forcibly removed all Israeli settlers from Gaza in 2005 - If they wanted that land, then why not keep those people there and then have an excuse to maintain a military presence there to protect them and even bring in more settlers? It's simply not feasible for Israel to make that kind of expansion. As to the West Bank, I don't think Israel should be building any new settlements there, as I said, there is plenty of land within Israel. I think the largest Israeli cities in the West Bank should be included within Israel's borders and the smallest settlements dismantled.

Incremental genocide often goes undetected. That is why it is not "instant". Same thing, different terminology. Start here.

I don't think you could even call it incremental genocide since the Palestinian population is actually growing, and at a faster rate than the Jewish population of Israel...

As for supporting then garbage? Nope.

Thank you, was that really so hard to say?

Hamas is the scapegoat. They get marching orders from someone.

From who exactly? (Not being provocative here, just curious who you think is pulling the strings)

Two wrongs, do not make a right. I've stressed this is a travesty for both cultures. Note, not race.

Agreed. I've said many times I don't agree with everything Israel does, and I truly feel bad for the situation the Palestinians are in. I think the rest of the Arab world uses them as a tool against Israel and does nothing to help them (Other than arming Hamas which brings more suffering).
I have a Palestinian friend/co-worker and he's one of the nicest people I know, I've been to his home and spent time with his family, attended his church where we were very welcomed by everyone there, and his Pastor Baptized my wife and I in the Jordan River. He even offered several times for my wife and I to come stay at his home in the north of Israel when the rocket attacks on the south were happening.
I have nothing against Palestinians - The only people I have a problem with are those that would like to see me and other innocents in the area dead...

I'm glad you want to coexist too.

You really think I'm a troll? Or even a paid troll? Hardly, I just don't like Hamas, or any terrorists that try to kill me.
I wish someone would pay me for the posts I make here... Where do I sign up?

Prove your sincerity. Address every point in this video.

Sorry, but I don't have time (And likely the attention span at the moment) to watch a 1 hour+ video... If you can't tell my sincerity from all my postings by now, I doubt you will be convinced by anything else I could post...

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: CommandoJoe
Do you support the murder of the 3 Israeli teens?

Nope but I also don't blame enemies for the actions of another. First off Israel said Hamas did it. Then they siad they didn't do it. Now they are saying that yes they did. It's a farce and anyone with a lick of logic can see it.

This isn't Israel saying Hamas did it - this is Hamas saying they did it...

Are you saying that because of Israels actions, the murder of innocent teens is ok?

I think you've got that backwards.

Israel is hitting Gaza because of the THOUSANDS of rockets fired into Israel, not because of the 3 teens killed.

That's what this thread is about after all, not the entirety of the conflict.

No this is about propaganda being spewed forth to justify the murder of WAY more than 3 teens.

Again, how is this Israeli propaganda when the leadership of Hamas is on video claiming responsibility and praising the killings?

Here it is again in case you missed it... (Not the one I posted in the OP, but further up on this page)

a reply to: CommandoJoe

I read your OP and the sources. Now you go back and read the replies on the first page. Like I said previously, just because someone says something doesn't make it true.

a reply to: CommandoJoe

You are buying into propaganda joe. Quo Bono? To whose benefit? The mic for starters. Profit margins and all.

Watch the video. This is the second time you avoided it. Take the hour. Otherwise, you cause festering of your own ignorance.

Research fog of war, and how it is used.

If you were sincere, you would understand what we are saying. You need both sides of the story for the full picture. You are missing one side.

Ps, law enforcement is 9x more likely to kill you, than ghosts.

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: CommandoJoe

I read your OP and the sources. Now you go back and read the replies on the first page. Like I said previously, just because someone says something doesn't make it true.

All of the replies on the first page deal with the first video from the OP, which admittedly could have been better. Now we have one of the top leaders if not THE top leader of Hamas in a video taped interview, given in English, saying they did it - in the link I posted later... If it's not true why would Khaled Meshaal say it? I'd say his words carry quite a bit more weight than some sheikh most of us have never heard of...

a reply to: CommandoJoe
Where did Hamas get their information about other members of Hamas doing the kidnapping and killing? From Israel this was in your link.

When asked directly whether Hamas members carried out the abduction of the Israeli teens, Meshaal said: "We learned about these confessions from the Israeli investigation … Hamas political leadership was not aware of all these details. We learned about it later on …

So all they know is what Israel told them and seeing how Israel lies through their teeth to get what they want the information could hardly be called credible. When Hamas starts spouting Israeli propaganda they start to show who they really work for.

a reply to: CommandoJoe

I'm at a loss here. When Hamas said they didn't do it Israel didn't believe them. Now this Sheik says they did and NOW you believe them. That's mighty convenient wouldn't you think. Especially after Israel finally admitted that Hamas didn't do it.

And your "THOUSANDS of rockets...." I looked into that:

en.wikipedia.org...

Those "thousands didn't start happening until Israel bombarded Gaza:

en.wikipedia.org...

Cause effect. But Israel is the victim here.

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: CommandoJoe
Watch the video. This is the second time you avoided it. Take the hour. Otherwise, you cause festering of your own ignorance.

I'm really not avoiding it, I'm just not able to give it the attention to make a fair/objective viewing now, as I'm at work.

Ps, law enforcement is 9x more likely to kill you, than ghosts.

Perhaps in the US those odds are true (and I'm not surprised), but it's not for lack of trying on the part of Hamas - And law enforcement has never TRIED to kill me yet, while Hamas has tried several thousand times... The odds have more to do with Israel's warning system, building of shelters, and Iron Dome than any lack of action by Hamas.

The Israeli police are quite laid back and not on a power trip like US cops - yet another reason I like living here. And I think being an American has given me a pass several times - when I start speaking English and no Hebrew they are very polite, give me a warning or just wave me on. Maybe they don't want to deal with the paperwork. One time I saw a guy arguing with a cop here, nose to nose, yelling at each other in a parking lot, and the guy actually put his hands on the cop and pushed him a bit. He didn't get shot, no taser, no beat down... I was very surprised.

PS, I don't really like or trust law enforcement (in the US) very much either...

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: CommandoJoe

I'm at a loss here. When Hamas said they didn't do it Israel didn't believe them. Now this Sheik says they did and NOW you believe them. That's mighty convenient wouldn't you think. Especially after Israel finally admitted that Hamas didn't do it.

We're past the sheikh - Now I'm talking about the second video with Khaled Mashal
Link again

And your "THOUSANDS of rockets...." I looked into that:

en.wikipedia.org...

So you're quibling about how many = thousands? 3 thousand is too low to be considered thousands? How many rocket attacks would you accept before you expect your government to do something to defend you?

Those "thousands didn't start happening until Israel bombarded Gaza:

en.wikipedia.org...

Cause effect. But Israel is the victim here.

And Israel started bombing Gaza in response to increased rocket fire by Hamas.

From your sources:

In July, the number of rocket attacks launched toward Israel from Gaza increased dramatically. Eighty rockets were fired by Hamas and its allies on 7 July.[4] On the following day, Israel retaliated with the launch of Operation Protective Edge.

On 8 July 2014, an escalation of the Gaza–Israel conflict began when Israel launched Operation Protective Edge (Hebrew: מִבְצַע צוּק אֵיתָן, Mivtza' Tzuk Eitan, lit. "Operation Strong Cliff"),[note 1] in the Hamas-governed[34] Gaza Strip.[35] The stated aim of the operation was to stop rocket attacks from the Gaza Strip, which several non-Hamas groups had begun launching in June and which Hamas claimed responsibility for on 7 July following an Israeli crackdown on Hamas members in the West Bank

So I guess no, there were not thousands fired BEFORE Israel took action, but the total is in the thousands NOW, and that is why Israel continues to hit Gaza. And clearly Hamas escalated things before Israel did.
Or do you think Hamas should have been allowed to fire 3000 rockets before Israel was justified to take any action? How many countries would do that? What is the number of attacks you would be ok with receiving before firing back?

originally posted by: CommandoJoe
So I guess no, there were not thousands fired BEFORE Israel took action, but the total is in the thousands NOW...

Which is exactly my point. Cause/effect. Read those link I provided(and the timeline) and you'll see an aggressor, it isn't the supposed victim here.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: CommandoJoe
So I guess no, there were not thousands fired BEFORE Israel took action, but the total is in the thousands NOW...

Which is exactly my point. Cause/effect. Read those link I provided(and the timeline) and you'll see an aggressor, it isn't the supposed victim here.

I did, and they show that Hamas escalated first... Which I quoted above.