Jim Foley beheading a Fake?

IT IS very possible that with all of the millions of $$$ that they have been ransoming and stealing from banks n such. it doesn't seem weird that their movies started looking better and people started editing it for them, maybe with all the foreigners that are coming to support their cause are coming because of the money, people with video editing skills ect. i still think its real and it wont be the first of its kind.

a reply to: Agit8dChop

Good God, and you wonder why I said I was done talking to you, Lets take this take this one step at a time and then I am done dealing with you.

Funny you dont answer them yourself but point to another thread but ok

Ok here was my answer on page one of this thread that said exactly the same as the previous link I gave you except the link I gave you before was more in depth. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Ok, If you watch their first video, you see quite clearly ISIS shooting kids in the head. Brains, Blood, Skull fragments.
You see ISIS putting a bullet into any persons head then throwing them off a cliff. Why then, after all that blood and gore would they decide to ''cut'' an American being cut up? Have they suddenly become squirmish? This point doesnt hold water. Especially given the fact that they ''apparently'' show a headless corpse complete with ''apparent'' blood and a chopped off head. Its contradicting itself. - we cut because we dont want to show gore, then we show a photo of a decapated American.

My personal opinion on why it was faded out was for two possible reasons;

1) James Foley realised that this was not another Mock execution and as such probably started fighting for his life in the best way he could under the circumstances.
or
2) The Barbarian that decapitated him was such an ass and could not finish the job without some help. It has been reported it took some 7 minutes for the decapitation to finish and as such probably not the best ISIS video to release showing how incompetent these barbarians actually are.

Yes, fair point. He might not have known his head was going to be cut off. However, he was driven into the middle of a desert. The man with the knife had his faced covered. T

And he had probably been driven to the desert many times before to carry out the exact same mock execution. It has already been clarified by his fellow French hostages that were released last year that the captors regularly carried out mock executions and once a mock crucifixion on James Foley saw from his laptop that his brother John was in the US air force and as such James was singled out for beatings and torture more than the other captives. I have already supplied a link to this story, please review previous posts.

I dont see how this is valid to be honest, I never raised a point about a knife. You could cut someones head off with a spoon if you did it right. The knife doesn't matter.

No but other members have said the knife was fake and the response you just read was to the OP's questions.

Again this doesn't matter. There are many British, Australian and probably some American nut cases in Iraq fighting for ISIS. Mute point. I never raised it.

No, but again other members have.

Now I have raised this before. Taking too long isnt logical. Their last movie was over 30minutes long. So why would a 7 minute execution be considered '' too long ''?
Too Messy - they are cutting a mans head off. How messy did they expect it to be?

I believe I have answered this in my first point.

1. Why is there no blood when the knife starts cutting?

No idea, probably as the barbarian did not have a clue what he as doing.

2. Why is the dirt not disturbed around his feet. If you had watched other beheading videos you'd see how much someone struggles when their head is being cut off

I have not watched other videos of decapitations, so I have no idea. If you are referencing to the final image when his head is on his back, then how do you know if they had not moved the body from its original position?

3. Why is there little to no blood on the ground, clothes, feet of the victim in the still photo? do you know how much blood spurts and sprays when a head is cut off?

Again, perhaps the body was moved but from the still picture from the aftermath, there's plenty of blood on James, so I am not sure what you are meaning.

Why cant we accept the fact that ISIS has over a billion dollars in funding? These guys aren't just dirt farmers like the media portrays them. The ones we fought in Iraq weren't stupid either, can you rig artillery shells in a timed daisy chain with a homemade pressure detonator or thermal detonator? they are intelligent human beings just like you and me.

You don't think they could spare the $500 for a camera and editing software? get with the times people.

originally posted by: Agit8dChop

originally posted by: flammadraco
Take a look at the following link that a poster made on the first page of this thread and it will answer some of your questions; www.abovetopsecret.com...

Sigh, how disappointing.

You accuse people of being ignorant and stupid and wasting time because they have a valid opinion about this beheading. To backup how correct you are, you insist we read the information you believe answers all our questions.

So we do, then reply why your stated answers are in fact not valid.

Then you log off and run away.

Disappointing.

Perhaps you need to look at ones avatar and it would have said I was still online. stop being an eager beaver, I was in the process of responding to you.

a reply to: flammadraco

Awesome.
Now, I shall read your replies and rebuttal again.

See isn't this better than name calling and brushing people off? Please give me 5 minutes.

we might end up agreeing!

a reply to: Remedylane

What I was referring to with the gore seekers on ATS was the number of apparent experts we have who admittedly have said they have watched many of these videos. And to add when I realised that the video would not show the actual decapitation then I was aware that I would be able to hear the accent without seeing the poor man's final breath.

a reply to: flammadraco

Fair enough.

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: Agit8dChop
Good God, and you wonder why I said I was done talking to you

I know, I know, I know. You want people to just accept your right and not question things. Sorry, That's not me.

My personal opinion

Wait, people were stupid and ignorant because they had opinions, now your saying your opinion. Hypocritical or just mistaken?
ok, I'll reply regardless because this is a debate.

1) James Foley realized that this was not another Mock execution and as such probably started fighting for his life in the best way he could under the circumstances.

Why would ISIS hide this? Surely an American fighting for his life screaming in agony in a futile attempt would be prime time viewing for ISIS, would it not? again - there's no reason ISIS would hide this. Why would it matter if he struggled or not?

2) The Barbarian that decapitated him was such an ass and could not finish the job without some help. It has been reported it took some 7 minutes for the decapitation to finish and as such probably not the best ISIS video to release showing how incompetent these barbarians actually are.

7 minutes? so, the previous movie was 30minutes. 7 minutes of an American fighting for his life would go a long way for the ISIS mentality. Incompetent? they've taken over Iraq and have shown many movies where they are brutal murderers. If a man is handcuffed with 3 men standing on his back and legs there's not much ''incompetence'' needed.

And he had probably been driven to the desert many times before to carry out the exact same mock execution. It has already been clarified by his fellow French hostages that were released last year that the captors regularly carroed out mock executions and once a mock crucifixion as James Foley saw from his laptop that his brother John was in the US air force and as such James was singled out for beatings and torture more than the other captives. I have already supplied a link to this story, please review previous posts.

Yes, how convenient. Critics of the movie raise the point that this was a fake then days later the US decides to tell the world its probably a mock execution. Very interesting.
But again, the movie mentions this is the result of US bombing ISIS.
The US hadn't bombed ISIS in the past. It was a new thing only a week or so old. The man was kidnapped 2yrs ago or something? The idea that he didn't know he was about to be executed doesn't hold water.

My question:

1. Why is there no blood when the knife starts cutting?

Your response

No idea, probably as the barbarian did not have a clue what he as doing.

Sorry, that doesn't make any sense. You think he was cutting air? The man in the movie put the knife to his throat and sawed back and forth several times. The hostage even started moaning and groaning. The fact that there is no blood is pretty important, your reply that '' I have no idea '' is a very poor effort and answering that point. but I wont beat on it, next:

I have not watched other videos of decapitations, so I have no idea. If you are referencing to the final image when his head is on his back, then how do you know if they had not moved the body from its original position?

Then you are not fit to comment.
In other beheading video's (if you would educate yourself on be-headings) you'd see that the man being beheaded thrashes about quite violently in the initial stages of having his head cut off. You need several people to hold them down. The fact the dirt around his legs isn't disturbed very much is a pretty significant point.

How do I know the body wasn't moved? Because there is ''apparent'' blood under his stomach on the ground.
The blood on the ground and on the clothing and around the neck is not consistent with a beheading.

Again, if you bothered to watch other be-headings you would see the amount of blood that spurts and splashes all over the place is incredible. Something like 6litres? Look at the photo, there's barely a drop of blood on the mans clothing, feet, floor. it doesn't add up!

thank-you for replying and not just accusing me of being ignorant. As you can see I have replied respectfully to your points. This is where we always seem to get to, I beg of you please point out where I am incorrect.

wierd ATS issue.

a reply to: Agit8dChop

Have another go at editing your response as I am confused by the layout. At the moment it looks as your last post was written by me in response to you.

a reply to: Agit8dChop

I only have one comment to make about your response

Then you are not fit to comment.
In other beheading video's (if you would educate yourself on be-headings) you'd see that the man being beheaded thrashes about quite violently in the initial stages of having his head cut off.

So what you are saying is anyone responding to your opinion is not fit to do so as we don't like watching "Snuff Movies"?

OK I get it and I'm out of here.

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: Agit8dChop

I only have one comment to make about your response

Then you are not fit to comment.
In other beheading video's (if you would educate yourself on be-headings) you'd see that the man being beheaded thrashes about quite violently in the initial stages of having his head cut off.

So what you are saying is anyone responding to your opinion is not fit to do so as we don't like watching "Snuff Movies"?

OK I get it and I'm out of here.

Sigh another immature reply.
After all the effort i put into replying to your points, you run and hide again. We get to the same logical place then you just pack and leave the debate.
Disappointing, I really thought we were getting somewhere.

And yes, you ridiculing people for not automatically believing this is real is a little offset by the fact that you haven't seen another beheading video, yet you tell people they are ignorant and wrong when they point our obvious irregularities in this video to other beheading video's.

So yes, if this is the only beheading video you've ever seen then you cannot tell people they are wrong when they quite clearly and logically point out why this video does not match up with other beheading video's.

Its called knowledge - look it up!

I see crying, yet no tears news.msn.com...

originally posted by: Vaedur
I see crying, yet no tears news.msn.com...

Don't know if you're being sarcastic but just wanted to say I just read your post "things I've learned on ATS" and it was spot on!

a reply to: AnAbsoluteCreation

Lol the knife he had, seems like it could behead someone, might take some time but defianlty possible if sharp, which i'm assuming it is.. The Video could be fake and it might not be, he was captured for 2 years, he could of been tortured in that time, we don't know. Right before he is about to get beheading, he does show fear in his eyes. But in that situation, I wouldn't want to look like a "puss" either..but i'd probably try and run, rather get shot then beheaded!

Hi Flammadraco, apologies but we started a debate after you accused people of being ignorant idiots.

I have respectfully answered all your questions and replied with some of my own.
You appear to have retreated from that debate,

I respectfully ask you respond to my valid points in thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Its the mature and respectable thing to do. After all, you've lambasted people for having a different opinion to you yet, you refuse to engage in discussion about it.

It's disrespectful, of low character and pretty poor to start a debate then run away when someone challenges you,
Your typical response when people challenge you is to link to other threads and replies.

So from now on, when your ridiculing people for not agreeing with you, they will be within their right to link to the debate and ask you respond to the valid points raised - this is after-all what you did multiple times in multiple threads.

I await your reply with baited breathe.

regards, Agit8dchop

So... now experts gonna figure out what the "commando" knife was...
Took me about 5 minutes (Aitor jungle king II)

a reply to: Agit8dChop

Reversed Psychology and emotional blackmail is not going to make me want to converse with you. In fact your post proves that I am not dealing with someone that I really want to debate with any longer. Your response "Sigh another immature reply" leads me to believe I am wasting my time with you and as such, lets just agree to disagree as I will no longer "troglodytae iam non enutriet" as per my signature.

originally posted by: Iamthatbish
Its possible this man knew these were his lasts moments and didn't want to be remembered as a snivelling weasel.

This, he was a very brave man.

But watching the video I also get the feeling that the whole thing has been heavily rehearsed, I bet that poor guy had been through that exact same shot 10's maybe hundreds of times over and over - it's only when they got the take they wanted the thugs went for the kill.

originally posted by: live2beknown
a reply to: AnAbsoluteCreation

Lol the knife he had, seems like it could behead someone

You don't have to behead someone with a small knife, just kill them. Could have had bigger knives behind camera, or he may have used the same knife and took a very long time about it.