'Enter Pyongyang': Time-lapse film gives rare look inside North Korean capital. (acutally amazing)

a reply to: anon72

Ok, so they have a nice looking city and the people look like they are happy or whatever, unless they get caught with a bible, then it's death or prison. Yeah, great country.

a reply to: peck420

Well, actually, I do take those satellite images quite seriously. They are simply one part of a larger body of information I've spent time looking at to form my opinions of that land which time would appear to have forgotten. I've even been known to write a note or two on the topic of the DPRK, in fact.

Korea I, Korea II, Korea III

We all have our own outlooks on things though.

a reply to: anon72

People are alike everywhere and unfortunatately so are goverments.

I believe it was one of the original members here that said something along the lines that People don't cause wars goverment causes war.


The interesting thing about the film was that I didn't see one adult laughing , smiling, expressing themselves freely or not in order.

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
Well, actually, I do take those satellite images quite seriously. They are simply one part of a larger body of information I've spent time looking at to form my opinions of that land which time would appear to have forgotten. I've even been known to write a note or two on the topic of the DPRK, in fact.
We all have our own outlooks on things though.

I'm not quite sure how I should respond to this...

Are you saying that my eyes lied to me? That I couldn't clearly see the trail of lights from the Chinese border to the city we stayed at, and well off into the distance?

There is a trail of light from Sinuiju all the way to Pyongyang. It's no east coast USA, but it is there. Yet, it seems to have been edited out of all the satellite images. Why?

We are told that there is no real flow of people or goods from North Korea to anywhere...yet, when we were in Dadong, there was line ups of trucks (goods) and buses(people)...in both directions. Why the discrepancy?

The first thing I have learned, in my travels, is that what we are told is never what we get. It's just what our side wants us to think we will get.

a reply to: peck420

I don't know who ever said the border cities of the DPRK aren't busy with people. That nation does have a large population, however it tallies in the end. They have to eat something, somehow. If one simply looks at the pure geography of the nation, it isn't entirely by what they grow themselves, and I don't see livestock on any scale that would supply them. South Korea doesn't do what anyone would call a robust trading business and UN/US food aid only goes so far.

So, the fact there is robust traffic from the Chinese border to Pyongyang and likely 2-3 other points means they aren't entirely starving their population. Imagine the sheer quantity the stated population requires in a nation largely lacking arable land? (a closer look at the NASA satellite imagery of the Korean peninsula at night shows more than one point of light, BTW. There are 2 distinct ones and I believe, 3-4 other faint ones in a darkness not really seen outside remote Africa or the ocean)

I'm saying I believe my eyes to what Vice has shown in their documentaries, what I have read with my own eyes in North Korean defector reports that have worked their way into the public record and the statements from a variety of those same folks when they've made it to media broadcast and are able to relate what living in the place you visited is actually like.

As I said tho...We each have our own outlook, and every right to it.

originally posted by: Char-Lee
a reply to: James1982

your hatred of the US?

You sure do take liberties and huge leaps don't you!

we have a country that allows no access for spying and no information comes to us but gossip and you want us all to decide they are all living in horror...only thing that would make you happy is if everyone makes your huge leaps from nothing!

The image posted below your post shows NK dark, how's that for a country where people are doing good? Even most places considered horribly are at least lit up at night. Just because we can't get spies in doesn't mean it's impossible to deduce any information about their situations.

Two FACTS that are not in dispute, AFAIK:

NK is dark at night. From that I deduce they are a nation that A: is so close to collapse they literally can't even afford to keep the lights on, or B: they care so little for their people that they COULD turn the lights on, but they don't to provide power for other things. Can you posit a reasonable deduction of why NK is dark at night? Do you think it's for environmental reasons? Can't be that, we already know their pollution is rampant. They like playing massive scale hide-and-seek games? (that one might be true, in a sense)

The people of NK are not allowed to simply leave their country and re-locate. Maybe you'll argue NK is so awesome that nobody ever tried to leave so they simply have no need for a procedure that allows their citizens to move, personally I find that a laughable idea and find it far more likely that policy is in place because things are so bad there if they let people leave they wouldn't have a population.

How does American propaganda play into those two things, tell me? What am I so wrong about? Does NK actually shine like a thousand sun in satellite pics and we just see photoshopped ones? Are North Koreans free to leave and happily traveling all over the globe telling tales of their wonderful life but as a stupid American I just have never talked to them or heard about them?

I'm seriously asking, and yet nobody can/wants to tell me. What specifically am I wrong about, these TWO examples are enough to give you a great glimpse into NK and they don't require you to believe America. I'm willing to change my opinion if you show me something I haven't seen before, or explained your views in a different way. So far the only thing I've seen from you guys is "Everything about NK is lies, US sucks, etc etc" which really isn't anything of substance.

Some things you don't need to lie about to paint as bad, and NK is one of them. Not saying they are a threat to me, or really any nation outside their immediate area, but their people need to be given freedom. As long as you admit they aren't allowed to leave then you admit they have had their freedom stolen from them by their government, yet still you defend it. Mind boggling....

If things in NK are NOT all that bad where are the multitudes of North Korean expats all over the planet speaking of it's wonders? They speak of it's ills.

It is very important to realize that any footage coming out of North Korea IS propaganda footage from the North Korean government. Any foreigner who travels to North Korea is shadowed constantly, and is only allowed to film at certain locations. The entire trip to North Korea is planned in advance, and is a setup of sorts. And another thing to realize is that Pyongyang is the ONLY city in North Korea like this. It is probably the only city with power at all. And the people living in the city are not "regular" people, or the average North Korean citizen. Only families connected with the government and military, and other people of this nature, are allowed to even live in the city.

Anyway my point is that this video is most likely staged. Nobody gets unprecedented access to North Korea. Go watch the Vice documentary where the two guys go into Pyongyang for an idea of what goes on. They present only their best side, and it would be even more so in a video. I am not saying the North Korean people are all "bad," but you cannot even remotely get an accurate picture of what life in North Korea is like, or what the people are like, from something like this. All the people appear brainwashed, and many likely are, but some might just be playing along...but considering that this is all they've ever known, they likely hate the West more than anyone. I mean if you grew up and were constantly told something, even into your adult life, fed propaganda on a regular basis, why wouldn't you believe it? Especially when there is absolutely zero information that conflicts with what you are being told.

There is the fact that people escape from North Korea. I am interested to know if they escape because they have discovered the lies, or more likely, they escape because they are oppressed and starving. But how do they know if things are better anywhere else, and not worse? Why would any North Korean flee to South Korea with all the propaganda that has been fed to them? I never really asked myself that question before but it is interesting. Perhaps they feel that they couldn't do any worse. If they stay where they are they know what will happen. Attempting escape, even if you don't know what lies ahead, offers at least a possibility of something better.

The NK administration might be corrupt, and malignant, but the people...

The people are probably just normal people trying to go about their daily lives, the same as anywhere else. I have to comment, that was one very well made video.

NAZI Berlin was a lovely place to live in 1939 if you were a Ayran .

Doesn't mean NAZI Germany is a ideal to aspire too.

a reply to: BMorris

I'd go one step further by my research and learning about the North Koreans. When Kim is finally removed by force or internal coup..whatever it takes to remove Dear Leader...there will be millions of people suddenly open to a world they've been denied the right to fully know the existence of.

I think they are likely to be the most friendly, shy and warm people the world has seen in a very long time. The fact they are Korean isn't the trick to that. It's the fact they really have been forcefully removed and cut off from the rat race and world of ads, sex, violence for entertainment and general 'rush rush rush...5 minutes AGO!!' that the modern world consists of. That small aspect? In a tiny way? I ALMOST pity them for...but the benefits of joining the modern world with the 7 billion other humans makes it an 'almost'.

video removed
although I realize what it means to have been made by the north Korea tourism department, I still wanted to give it a look.

a reply to: 3n19m470

It's just been removed from youtube, probably a take-down request by the copyright holders. You can still see it on the page linked to in the OP, which is here: 'Enter Pyongyang': Time-lapse film gives rare look inside North Korean capital

a reply to: James1982

Since you misconstrued every single word I say and you get a rack of stars for doing so what is the point in any response!

a reply to: James1982

double post