The UN is a sad joke

Unfortunately it's not funny. The Gazans may deserve justice while the world deserves an unassailable trial which gives the world back dignity and the truth, and the Israelis deserve a fair trial.

So the U.N. has decided there should be an investigation into the Israeli-Palestinian War. That is fantastic news and seems to be what many on ATS have been clamoring for. The investigation will be headed by the Human Rights Council. That name sounds really good too and everyone is all for justice and human rights.
en.wikipedia.org...

What I do not understand is this:

The lead is a fellow by the name of William Schabas. In the past he has said the Netanyahu should be "in the dock of an international court." and he has said "Why are we going after the president of Sudan for Darfur and not the president of Israel for Gaza?”"
ca.news.yahoo.com...
canadafreepress.com...

Another of the three judges named Amal Alamuddin said "I am horrified by the situation in the occupied Gaza Strip, particularly the civilian casualties," Alamuddin said in a statement, "and strongly believe that there should be an independent investigation and accountability for crimes that have been committed.". So this judge 1.already believes the Israelis are occupiers, 2. is only concerned with civilian deaths and 3. she knows crimes have been committed (likely in relation to these civilian deaths).
www.theguardian.com...

Is this how international investigations and trials work, i.e., two thirds of the court has already made up its mind? If this were your trial, would you be ok with this?

The title of this thread nails it on the head.

I don't think that the UN is looking out for the good of any people, any where.

a reply to: hoth12
Yep, the look of One World Government.

Who cares about Gaza anymore, babies are getting buried alive and kids decapitated heads are bleeding on poles while thousands of adolescent girls are sodomy slaves to jihadists. They don't even bother to shoot the masses anymore they just bury them alive in the sand, 500 at a time.

Gaza shmaza.

Israel should just ally with the King of Jordan and go do what the rest of the world is trying to ignore, wipe out ISIS. The UN can disband any day now since they are impotent and inept to even rescue people off of a mountain.

a reply to: TinfoilTP
You are trying to wipe Israel's ass of the whole affair, shame on you.

The UN is only as powerful as the will and power of its member states. All 5 members of the Security Council which are 5 of the most powerful nations on Earth US/UK/France/China/Russia all have vested interests in Israel. None of the have any wish to see anything beyond harsh words happen to Israel. Then you have the Arab States who pay lip service to the Palestinians but, never do anything for them because the count on Israel as a counter to Iran. The same with the rest of Europe. How many nations have done any real beyond words to aid Palestine or hurt Israel? None. The UN can only act upon the will of its members. Clearly the world really does not care.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
Who cares about Gaza anymore, babies are getting buried alive and kids decapitated heads are bleeding on poles while thousands of adolescent girls are sodomy slaves to jihadists. They don't even bother to shoot the masses anymore they just bury them alive in the sand, 500 at a time.

Gaza shmaza.

Israel should just ally with the King of Jordan and go do what the rest of the world is trying to ignore, wipe out ISIS. The UN can disband any day now since they are impotent and inept to even rescue people off of a mountain.

Wipe out the group that your government happily funded, I guess that's a logical solution to your governments logic.

originally posted by: MrSpad
The UN is only as powerful as the will and power of its member states. All 5 members of the Security Council which are 5 of the most powerful nations on Earth US/UK/France/China/Russia all have vested interests in Israel. None of the have any wish to see anything beyond harsh words happen to Israel. Then you have the Arab States who pay lip service to the Palestinians but, never do anything for them because the count on Israel as a counter to Iran. The same with the rest of Europe. How many nations have done any real beyond words to aid Palestine or hurt Israel? None. The UN can only act upon the will of its members. Clearly the world really does not care.

If you didn't want to see anything happen to Israel, why would you choose such biased judges?

i disagree. jokes are funny.

originally posted by: hoth12

originally posted by: MrSpad
The UN is only as powerful as the will and power of its member states. All 5 members of the Security Council which are 5 of the most powerful nations on Earth US/UK/France/China/Russia all have vested interests in Israel. None of the have any wish to see anything beyond harsh words happen to Israel. Then you have the Arab States who pay lip service to the Palestinians but, never do anything for them because the count on Israel as a counter to Iran. The same with the rest of Europe. How many nations have done any real beyond words to aid Palestine or hurt Israel? None. The UN can only act upon the will of its members. Clearly the world really does not care.

If you didn't want to see anything happen to Israel, why would you choose such biased judges?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

a reply to: hoth12
One of the leading causes of war besides ideological change, is the right to self determination.
Self determination was a leading cause of world war one, and was also used in the Wilson doctrine, a fourteen point charter devised to promote world peace after the war.

However and subsequently, later in 1945, when the U.N. was created, self determination became part of the United Nations charter for human rights.

Many wars have been started on this claim alone, and we have seen quite a bit of it in the past few years up to the present, leaving behind in it's wake destruction and chaos.

The United Nations it self promotes war, and in my opinion is a tool for imperialists to divide and conquer whatever they choose.

originally posted by: Daedal
The United Nations it self promotes war, and in my opinion is a tool for imperialists to divide and conquer whatever they chooses,

That would be true except for that very UN charter you mentioned led to the collapse of the large Empires which dominated the globe at the time, which curiously enough opened up the world to US Corporations which up until the post-war period had a hard time getting into those markets.

So, my point being, if the UN was a "tool for imperialists to divide and conquer whatever they chooses", then why force it's founding members to pull out of their Colonial Empires?

As for the OP:

1) The Israeli's are occupiers - they only withdrew their military and settlers from Gaza in 2005 (after the peace accord in 1994!) and still maintain a large settler presence in the West bank, despite the world considering them illegal, not to mention the huge wall and military presence this requires. That's before we even get on to the blockade or the fact they have spent the last 60 years shrinking the Palestinian land down to bugger all from what they started off with in 1948.

2) Crimes have been committed - it is why there will be an investigation. You don't start an investigation unless you believe offences have been committed.

a reply to: stumason
Let me rephrase that if l may. The UN IMO has become a tool used by imperialists to divide and conquer, as we see in the middle east. Creating revolutions inside countries that promote self determination and using it as a pretext to install
a puppet regime sympathetic to it's cause, and in some cases a power vacuum of extremists.

Upon its inception, as you stated, it was useful in decolonizing and opening up markets to US interests. Now IMO it has morphed into something else, a tool. Perhaps decolonizing US interests in ME to emerging markets in Asia, hence the pivot.

a reply to: hoth12

Israel[edit]
See also: Israel, Palestine, and the United Nations
Overview[edit]
As of 2014, Israel had been condemned in 50 resolutions by the Council since its creation in 2006—the Council had resolved almost more resolutions condemning Israel than on the rest of the world combined. The 50 resolutions comprised almost half (45.9%) of all country-specific resolutions passed by the Council, not counting those under Agenda Item 10 (countries requiring technical assistance).[50] By April 2007, the Council had passed eleven resolutions condemning Israel, the only country which it had specifically condemned.[51] Toward Sudan, a country with human rights abuses as documented by the Council's working groups, it has expressed "deep concern".[51]

The council voted on 30 June 2006 to make a review of alleged human rights abuses by Israel a permanent feature of every council session. The Council's special rapporteur on the Israeli–Palestinian conflict is its only expert mandate with no year of expiry. The resolution, which was sponsored by Organisation of the Islamic Conference, passed by a vote of 29 to 12 with five abstentions. Human Rights Watch urged it to look at international human rights and humanitarian law violations committed by Palestinian armed groups as well. Human Rights Watch called on the Council to avoid the selectivity that discredited its predecessor and urged it to hold special sessions on other urgent situations, such as that in Darfur.[52]

en.wikipedia.org...

lol, "deep concern" only, for Sudan.

the UN is FUBAR.

originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: Daedal
The United Nations it self promotes war, and in my opinion is a tool for imperialists to divide and conquer whatever they chooses,

That would be true except for that very UN charter you mentioned led to the collapse of the large Empires which dominated the globe at the time, which curiously enough opened up the world to US Corporations which up until the post-war period had a hard time getting into those markets.

So, my point being, if the UN was a "tool for imperialists to divide and conquer whatever they chooses", then why force it's founding members to pull out of their Colonial Empires?

As for the OP:

1) The Israeli's are occupiers - they only withdrew their military and settlers from Gaza in 2005 (after the peace accord in 1994!) and still maintain a large settler presence in the West bank, despite the world considering them illegal, not to mention the huge wall and military presence this requires. That's before we even get on to the blockade or the fact they have spent the last 60 years shrinking the Palestinian land down to bugger all from what they started off with in 1948.

2) Crimes have been committed - it is why there will be an investigation. You don't start an investigation unless you believe offences have been committed.

You have made two conclusory statements neither of which are facts as most reasonable people would define that word. The point of a trial is to prove that a crime was committed and then who committed the crime. You may start a trial suspecting that a crime was committed which is the whole impetus for trial, but you do not start with a fact of a crime. You must not be a barrister or solicitor. I hope the UN is better with law than you are, but they have shown unfortunately that they are not.