Viral ‘Mary Poppins’ Minimum Wage Video Receives Epic Rebuttal

originally posted by: Klassified
They also tend to have a higher cost of living. Which goes up each time the minimum wage increases.

That's the problem right there.

Some shadowy puppet master pulling the strings, "oh can't have poor ppl have a decent life. Let's magically and for no reason raise the cost of living so they stay in that hole."

Why should the cost of living magically rise the moment minimum wage rises. It's complete #.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Really it is not that important. The large spending amount that goes to the military and the billions spent on the NSA every year, oh and lets not forget the amounts that go directly to Israel........

This whole argument basically boils down to a couple of guys screaming "I am a richer slave than you!"

originally posted by: igor_ats

originally posted by: Klassified
They also tend to have a higher cost of living. Which goes up each time the minimum wage increases.

That's the problem right there.

Some shadowy puppet master pulling the strings, "oh can't have poor ppl have a decent life. Let's magically and for no reason raise the cost of living so they stay in that hole."

Why should the cost of living magically rise the moment minimum wage rises. It's complete #.

You have a store where you make a product and sell it. Your expenses are $900 and you sell the product for $1000.

Workers get a wage hike and now your expenses are $975. Are you still selling the item for $1000? If so you just lost 75% of your profits.

So what you do is sell the item for $1075. When everyone gets a wage increase, all goods have to increase. This means cost of living increases. It's a fairly simple concept to understand.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
You have a store where you make a product and sell it. Your expenses are $900 and you sell the product for $1000.

Workers get a wage hike and now your expenses are $975. Are you still selling the item for $1000? If so you just lost 75% of your profits.

So what you do is sell the item for $1075. When everyone gets a wage increase, all goods have to increase. This means cost of living increases. It's a fairly simple concept to understand.

Cost of living. . . rent, utilities, car payment, fuel, insurance, food and so on. Unless they are all employing minimum wage burger flippers and toilet cleaners level workers in every department in every position I don't see the correlation with the minimum wage increase.

a reply to: igor_ats

If I remember correctly it's about 5% of jobs are minimum wage jobs. We know they exist, I really do not know what your exact argument is. Minimum wage does not only alter the salary of minimum wage jobs.

Let's say Min wage is $8 and I am making $9 an hour. If Min. wage goes up to $9 my job now also increases in wage. Otherwise why would I take a job with more responsibility for the exact same wage. The whole reason I took it was because it paid more. Altering wage affects all wages above it, so altering the wage of those at the very bottom also increase the wages of every other pay scale.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Altering wage affects all wages above it, so altering the wage of those at the very bottom also increase the wages of every other pay scale.

I don't believe that for a second. Sauce?

originally posted by: igor_ats

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Altering wage affects all wages above it, so altering the wage of those at the very bottom also increase the wages of every other pay scale.

I don't believe that for a second. Sauce?

You really need a source? You can't figure that out? As I just showed you, if $8 is min. wage, and I get offered a job with extra responsibility for $9 an hour, who would ever take that job once min. wage is increased to $9. Or do we keep increasing minimum wage salaries so that burger flippers are making the same amount as managers?

The other logical conclusion that should not need a source is the fact that most of these people who would benefit are not even poor people.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
As I proved in the other thread, the States with high minimum wages are slow to recover economically, and have much higher unemployment.

I did not see your other thread, did you somehow refute the current articles that show different?

philly.com US states with higher minimum wages gain more jobs

The 13 U.S. states that raised their minimum wages at the beginning of this year are adding jobs at a faster pace than those that did not, providing some counter-intuitive fuel to the debate over what impact a higher minimum has on hiring trends.

Many business groups argue that raising the minimum wage discourages job growth by increasing the cost of hiring. A Congressional Budget Office report earlier this year lent some support for that view. It found that a minimum wage of $10.10 an hour, as President Obama supports, could cost 500,000 jobs nationwide.

I thought it would hurt the states, but so far those that raised min. wage are doing well.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: igor_ats

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Altering wage affects all wages above it, so altering the wage of those at the very bottom also increase the wages of every other pay scale.

I don't believe that for a second. Sauce?

You really need a source? You can't figure that out? As I just showed you, if $8 is min. wage, and I get offered a job with extra responsibility for $9 an hour, who would ever take that job once min. wage is increased to $9. Or do we keep increasing minimum wage salaries so that burger flippers are making the same amount as managers?

The other logical conclusion that should not need a source is the fact that most of these people who would benefit are not even poor people.

Yes I do need a source and don't dodge your original statement about all pay scales also having to increase.

I don't believe the manager will be sweating because the burger flipper got an extra dollar because the law increased the minimum wage and they didn't. Nor would I see it as "necessary" for the company to do so. The person earning 2 dollars over the minimum wage either gets screwed or gets an increase.

The much higher earners probably don't even care and I don't think the company would be required or think it necessary to increase their wages. So yes, I am fully prepared to be wrong, so a source would be nice.

originally posted by: Elton

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
As I proved in the other thread, the States with high minimum wages are slow to recover economically, and have much higher unemployment.

I did not see your other thread, did you somehow refute the current articles that show different?

philly.com US states with higher minimum wages gain more jobs

The 13 U.S. states that raised their minimum wages at the beginning of this year are adding jobs at a faster pace than those that did not, providing some counter-intuitive fuel to the debate over what impact a higher minimum has on hiring trends.

Many business groups argue that raising the minimum wage discourages job growth by increasing the cost of hiring. A Congressional Budget Office report earlier this year lent some support for that view. It found that a minimum wage of $10.10 an hour, as President Obama supports, could cost 500,000 jobs nationwide.

I thought it would hurt the states, but so far those that raised min. wage are doing well.

I did not refute it .. I destroyed it and showed it to be erroneous propaganda with no basis in reality. Here is a brief synopsis.

The "better off" high min. wage states.

June 2013 Unemployment --- June 2014 Unemployment --- CHANGE (A * indicates they are WORSE than the national average)
USA Avg.
7.5 --- 6.1 --- 1.4
Washington
7.0 --- 5.8 --- 1.2*
Oregon
7.8* --- 6.8* --- 1*
California
9* --- 7.4* --- 1.6
Vermont
4.4 --- 3.5 --- .9
Connecticut
7.9* --- 6.7* --- 1.2*
New Jersey
8.4* --- 6.6* --- 1.8
Illinois
9.2* --- 7.1* --- 2.1
Nevada
10* --- 7.7* --- 2.3
Massachusetts
7.1 --- 5.5 --- 1.6
Colorado
6.9 --- 5.5 --- 1.4

10 lowest min wage states.

2014 Unemployment Rates
Georgia
7.4*
Wyoming
4.0
Minnesota
5.0
Arkansas
6.2
West Virginia
(not on the list??)
Virginia
5.3
Utah
3.5
Texas
5.1
South Dakota
3.8

Hilarious how much better they are doing.

Average unemployment for top 10 high min. wage states.
6.78
Average unemployment for bottom 10 min. wage states.
4.47


These are the U-6 numbers which is true unemployment..

An * denotes a state BELOW national average.
USA Avg.
13.4
High Min. Wage with 6 states higher than the national average.

Washington
13.3
Oregon
15.8*
California
16.7*
Vermont
9.1
Connecticut
13.6*
New Jersey
14.2*
Illinois
15.6*
Nevada
17.4*
Massachusetts
12.9
Colorado
12.1

LOW Min. Wage with ONE state above national average.

Georgia
14.0*
Wyoming
8
Minnesota
10.3
Arkansas
12.8
West Virginia
12.4
Virginia
11.3
Utah
9.2
Texas
11.2
South Dakota
6.9


This is job growth right after the recession which shows high min. wage states did not tend to recover quickly.

2010 Job growth. 2 of the top 5 states are low min wage states. ZERO are high min wage states.

For all of 2010, the states with the best net reading of job hiring minus job firing reports were:

North Dakota (+ 29)
D.C. (+25)
South Dakota (+21)
Alaska (+19)
Arkansas (+17)

www.cbsnews.com...

2011 Job growth. 3 of the top 5 states are low min wage states. ZERO are high min wage states.
www.jsonline.com...
media.jsonline.com...

2012 Job growth. 1 of the top 5 states are low min wage states. 2 are high min wage states.
www.cnbc.com...

2013 Job growth. 2 of the top 5 states are low min wage states. 2 are high min wage states.
www.kiplinger.com...

Here is a list from Recession to Present day. Three of them are low min. wage states, one is high min wage states. (lowest min wage of the top 10)

North Dakota367,000465,000+26.6 percent $7.25
Texas10.28 million11.55 million+12.3 percent $7.25
Utah1.19 million1.33 million+12.3 percent $7.25
Colorado2.24 million2.45 million+9.2 percent $8.00
Florida7.22 million7.80 million+8.0 percent $7.93
www.washingtonpost.com...


Right to Work states also did great.
www.nilrr.org...

originally posted by: igor_ats

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: igor_ats

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Altering wage affects all wages above it, so altering the wage of those at the very bottom also increase the wages of every other pay scale.

I don't believe that for a second. Sauce?

You really need a source? You can't figure that out? As I just showed you, if $8 is min. wage, and I get offered a job with extra responsibility for $9 an hour, who would ever take that job once min. wage is increased to $9. Or do we keep increasing minimum wage salaries so that burger flippers are making the same amount as managers?

The other logical conclusion that should not need a source is the fact that most of these people who would benefit are not even poor people.

Yes I do need a source and don't dodge your original statement about all pay scales also having to increase.

I don't believe the manager will be sweating because the burger flipper got an extra dollar because the law increased the minimum wage and they didn't. Nor would I see it as "necessary" for the company to do so. The person earning 2 dollars over the minimum wage either gets screwed or gets an increase.

The much higher earners probably don't even care and I don't think the company would be required or think it necessary to increase their wages. So yes, I am fully prepared to be wrong, so a source would be nice.

Seriously if you need a source for what is basic logic then there is no point in discussing this with you further. If people were willing to do those jobs for min. wage they would not be $2 over min. wage. When a burger flipper with zero job responsibility makes the same as I do, I will quit and become a burger flipper. When my boss says I would like to give you a promotion and make you a team leader in charge of other sales associates ... but you don't get a raise, I will laugh and say no thanks. There is a reason jobs make more than min. wage, it's a hierarchy. Any time you raise the bottom it will have a ripple effect through the rest. If you think no one will get a pay increase except min wage workers you are mistaken.

Then we can add in the fact that most min wage workers are not even in the poor demographic.

originally posted by: Elton
I thought it would hurt the states, but so far those that raised min. wage are doing well.

Just to add, most of the states that raised min. wage did not vote to increase it, it was a mandatory inflation adjustment. It's also important to note that the state that did the "worst" in this group with "flat" job growth did so because it has very low unemployment (like the min wage states), and while being made to look like it is the worst off state in this group, it's actually arguably the best off. It's Vermont.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Seriously if you need a source for what is basic logic then there is no point in discussing this with you further.

So you have no sources that the managerial levels also get a wage increase if the minimum wage rises.

If people were willing to do those jobs for min. wage they would not be $2 over min. wage.

Strawman. That was not my argument.

My argument wasn't about "ppl willing to do those jobs for min wage." I don't even know how you reached that conclusion.

When a burger flipper with zero job responsibility makes the same as I do, I will quit and become a burger flipper.

Good for you. How does that prove all payscales increase too with a minimum wage increase, right up the CEO and managers?

There is a reason jobs make more than min. wage, it's a hierarchy. Any time you raise the bottom it will have a ripple effect through the rest. If you think no one will get a pay increase except min wage workers you are mistaken.

Provide a source that all pay scales increase when min wage increases, instead if "logic" and "it's obvious".

Because it isn't. Also don't backtrack and say "I only meant a few positions just above minimum wage in the company, not managerial levels and other higher level earners."

a reply to: igor_ats

Well, less than FOUR PERCENT of all full-time US workers are paid the minimum wage.

Source: Bureau of Labor and Statistics

So, if a minimum wage increase doesn't affect anyone in the tiers above the bottom 4%, then it's pretty irrelevant as an economic policy, isn't it? The Democrats call for a minimum wage increase for these 4% precisely because they claim it will cause pay to increase further up the food chain.

If not, then minimum wage increase is irrelevant, and we can dispense with it for that reason.

originally posted by: tovenar
a reply to: igor_ats

Well, less than FOUR PERCENT of all full-time US workers are paid the minimum wage.

Source: Bureau of Labor and Statistics

So, if a minimum wage increase doesn't affect anyone in the tiers above the bottom 4%, then it's pretty irrelevant as an economic policy, isn't it? The Democrats call for a minimum wage increase for these 4% precisely because they claim it will cause pay to increase further up the food chain.

If not, then minimum wage increase is irrelevant, and we can dispense with it for that reason.

His argument it's every pay-scale from bottom to top. Which I don't believe.

Also where have the dem's said this specifically regarding the much higher earners?

originally posted by: igor_ats

originally posted by: tovenar
a reply to: igor_ats

His argument it's every pay-scale from bottom to top. Which I don't believe.

Also where have the dem's said this specifically regarding the much higher earners?

Barak Obama's Facebook Page

Most recent post, as of July 25:

See how raising the minimum wage will help American workers from all types of households.

All means all.

originally posted by: tovenar

See how raising the minimum wage will help American workers from all types of households.

All means all.

So that means the managerial levels in a company will also get a raise?

Because the image he shows regarding that statement doesn't mean what you claim it means.

www.whitehouse.gov...

Nice try though.

a reply to: igor_ats

I just quoted from BO's facebook page. IF it doesn't match the whitehouse copy, I don't know what to tell you. I just check again, and his facebook page still says,

"See how the minimum wage will help American workers from all types of households."

It may be that they are distinguishing (salaried) management from (hourly) workers, and don't consider management to be American workers. Or it may be that "help" will not necessarily be in the form of more money coming in; perhaps its just the 'help' of living in a more egalitarian society.

They could be playing all kinds of word-games. But his website says the quote above.