Please Explain Israel vs Palestine

How did I know the thread would go this way?? Anyway, from Frontline's "House of Saud"

Roosevelt said to the Saudi King, "Your Majesty, you know, I'd like to get your opinion on a problem that I'm facing back home." He said, "You know, a lot of my constituents are pressuring me to recognize a Jewish homeland in Palestine." And he said, "I'd like to get your thoughts on this." And King Abdul Aziz said, "Mr. President, what Hitler did to the Jews was a terrible thing. It really was the worst thing that man can do to man." But he said, "I don't understand why you're talking about taking land away from us, the Arabs, and giving it to the Jews. We didn't do anything to the Jews. If you want to do something for the Jews, why don't you give them the best part of Germany?"

The British screwed the Arabs. The Americans have screwed the Arabs. There is a reason they are pissed. But on goes emperor Constatine's Bible telling people the Jews are the chosen people. I guess everybody else sucks, including Americans. Funny thing supporting and exalting the chosen people when you aren't invited to the party.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: amazing

Pretty much since the 'philistines' invaded and took that land from someone who was already living there.

I can guarantee, that you nor anyone else in Israel have actually any idea WHO they are, or where they come from.

They ALL claim that they do, but we can see that they do NOT.

Bloodlines, and Soullines, they are hidden well on this planet, and I can see that the cannon fodders are all in the open, whilst the ones with actual more purer traceable bloodlines really are playing the game from behind the scenes.

A game they actually do not seem to know what it is about EITHER.

It needs to be known, that the time for all this hi-jinx is UP, and all of the garbage going on in this world is not at ALL, what all the subconsciously controlled religious people in this world, I.E. EVERYONE think it is, because they are NOT ALLOWED TO KNOW THE TRUTH.

Not ONE OUNCE of truth on ANYTHING has been told in hundreds of thousands of years.

Only when the questions are POWERFULLY asked, WHAT IS ALL OF THIS NONSENSE, will we get to the bottom of any of it.

Oh, WAIT, they ARE suddenly BEING ASKED, AS OF NOW, gird yourselves with the armor, the armor that protects you from TRUTH!!!

originally posted by: combatmaster
It doesnt make it their land.... If they failed to create an internationally recognized sovereign arab palestinian state, how is it their land? They had a lease on it.... so what, the lease is now over!

If they failed, it certainly wasn't for lack of effort. In fact the history makes it very clear that it was not a failure so much as an intentional blocking. From 1919 onward, there was an operational Palestinian Arab congress with national aspirations that kept trying to work with the British to establish Palestine as a sovereign state. The British responded by arresting members of the organization and deporting them out of the territory, mostly into Egypt. When the british weren't arresting its members, it was ignoring the congress. when the congress fell apart it was replaced by ht Arab higher Comittee, which had much the same goals - and which was immediately outlawed by the British, with more deportations and arrests.

All the while the British were giving well-oiled handjobs to the Zionist congress; the first Comissioner of Palestine, Herbert Samuel - the fellow who began the British tradition of arresting and deporting Arab nationalists from Palestine, was himself an ardent Zionist Jew.

Well okay, but what about after the british mandate ended, couldn't the arab have just declared themselves a state then and there?

Well, no, because of that sovereignty issue - a state cannot declare itself over territory where it is not sovereign; where it does not exercise control. And prior to the end of the British mandate, there was the Palestinian Civil War, fought between Jewish militia and villagers armed with muskets and slingshots. The militia were armed and supplied by British forces, even to the point of violating a UN embargo on arms shipments to the territory - and pointedly the British did not try to intervene in the fighting even though it was their obligation as occupying power to do so.

So really, it's not that "the Arabs failed to establish a state," so much as "a world power worked very hard to prevent such an establishment, to the point of aiding and abetting ethnic cleansing happening right under its nose."

Jews on the other hand were not given a small portion.... they were expelled from their homeland and survived 2000 years in foreign lands living as refugees! Now they are back...

Can you point me towards a Jew who's been alive for 2,000 years?

So these new refugees that you call the Palestinians, can go back to their ancestors' real homeland - Jordan, Oman, Syria, Egypt etc.... just like the Jews went back to their ancestors' real homeland- Israel!

By this logic, seven billion people need to pack their butts into Kenya and let the rest of the world go back to being a Pleistocene theme park.

a reply to: amazing

You nailed it. Also it is really absurd with whole ancestral home garbage. Maybe your their family DID live on that land when King David allegedly existed, but i know for certain there are some Palestinians that.hold the land titles for some nice chunks of Israeli highway.

I guess being able to say your ancestors were there 40 or more generations ago trumpstrumps someone who can point out.where their childhood home used to be.

a reply to: combatmaster
They had tried to create a state but were blocked by the Brits. Also.. 2000 years ago the world wasnt nearly as defined. They tried many times at the turn of the century then a push.when they were being.over run by Israel who was attacking Egypt and kicking Palestinians off their land.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: buster2010

This is untrue...

Im not gonna argue with you buster since you are not going to accept anything other than what you want.

You are not a genetics expert. I personally can trace my bloodline back 23 generations of rabbis, back to Babylon and to Israel.

You have in all likelyhood never left your country, and im pretty positive you have never visited israel or gaza.

How can i take a person who quotes hitler in his signature seriously!?

Sorry but 23 generations isn't enough to go all the way back to when there was an Israel. The average generation is 25 years that is the amount of time from the birth of a parent to the birth of their first child. So 23 generations by 25 years is 575 years so you are short by around 1500 years.

I've went around the world a couple of times when I was in the military. Who my quote is by isn't as important as what it means because he was right fear of sudden death makes it easy to control people.

Wow, you can count... but honestly, do you really believe that you are going to teach me about my own family tree?
You buster are a special case indeed... i really wish you get a taste of what ive been living in my entire life. i hope you one day have to deal personally with Hamas terrorirsts! only then will you know what you are!

a reply to: amazing

Boy scouts??? in america its boy scouts..... over here mate its not boy scouts.... what is your problem..... they teach kids to hate and kill, how are you even defending this????

Hoenstly.... u think israel policy is the problem? Is that also the problem of all other arab countries? are you gonna blame the arab spring on ISrael too....

why have nobody until today helped the palestinians..... no arab country!

You will always find a way to push this back on israel! well.... you can all waste your time typing here on ATS because israel aint going nowhere and its people like you who make it worse for gaza!

a reply to: TheTengriist

*Snip* just trying to be funny?

How people do you know who have donethis?

have you ever met anyone for real or did you just read your entire life!

You are really gonna use the 2000 year old person argument!? how old are you?

All you anti-semitic ATS'ers i really hope you can one day come to israel and we will go visit Gaza together! I know gaza really well and her people even better.... dont be scared come with me!

Cos it seems like nothing but the truth will set you free.... so come and witness it like i did... no out of a book or screen but your own 2 eyes!

ofcourse you will never leave your armchair, would you!?

this is Israel vs Palestine explained:







you cannot argue the truth; Israelis are killing off Palestinians, from time to time though.

originally posted by: combatmaster

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: buster2010

This is untrue...

Im not gonna argue with you buster since you are not going to accept anything other than what you want.

You are not a genetics expert. I personally can trace my bloodline back 23 generations of rabbis, back to Babylon and to Israel.

You have in all likelyhood never left your country, and im pretty positive you have never visited israel or gaza.

How can i take a person who quotes hitler in his signature seriously!?

Sorry but 23 generations isn't enough to go all the way back to when there was an Israel. The average generation is 25 years that is the amount of time from the birth of a parent to the birth of their first child. So 23 generations by 25 years is 575 years so you are short by around 1500 years.

I've went around the world a couple of times when I was in the military. Who my quote is by isn't as important as what it means because he was right fear of sudden death makes it easy to control people.

Wow, you can count... but honestly, do you really believe that you are going to teach me about my own family tree?
You buster are a special case indeed... i really wish you get a taste of what ive been living in my entire life. i hope you one day have to deal personally with Hamas terrorirsts! only then will you know what you are!

No I'm not teaching you about your family tree just don't try to pull the generations bull to justify your theft of land that doesn't belong to you.

Well seeing how they have no Air Force or Navy the chance of Hamas attacking America is next to none and besides my nation although it is supporting Israel isn't trying to wipe Palestine off the map like Israel. Also when you live in a terrorist nation like Israel you really have no right crying about other people and calling them terrorist when they are defending themselves from people who think just because other people shared the same faith as them thousands of years ago gives them the right to land that others have been living on for well over a thousand years.

If we applied that logic to everyone then no one would have a place to live. If some Sumerians were to show up at your doorstep would you pack up and leave seeing how the land belong to them before it belonged to the Jews?

a reply to: combatmaster

in america its boy scouts..... over here mate its not boy scouts.... what is your problem..... they teach kids to hate and kill, how are you even defending this????

Israel does the same thing. They teach their kids to hate as much as the Palestinians.

Hoenstly.... u think israel policy is the problem?

Yes it is the problem and has been ever since 1948. But what else can you expect from a nation that votes terrorist in to run it.

why have nobody until today helped the palestinians..... no arab country!

Other nations do help the Palestinians or is Israel lying about all the arms that other Arab nations gives Hamas.

You will always find a way to push this back on israel!

With Israel's kill then steal policy it's not that hard.

you can all waste your time typing here on ATS because israel aint going nowhere and its people like you who make it worse for gaza!

No it's the people in Israel that targets civilians and places like schools and hospitals and keeps firing on them that makes it worse for Gaza.

a reply to: buster2010

Stop it..... it was never their land. They were simply living on it... theres a big difference! Palestinian arab muslims, palestinian Jews, palestinian christians etc etc! I come from a family of arab jews and palestinian jews.

Israel isnt saying that Palestinians cant exist there. But the palestinians dont want israel to exist at all!

Israel does the same thing. They teach their kids to hate as much as the Palestinians.

You make stuff up about israel teaching its kids to hate.... this is a LIE! You have never even been to israel, so how can you say this? Israel doesnt do this.... teach their kids to become martyrs..... are you even listening to urself!>?

This is pointless buster..... you make assumptions that could only be valid when backed by your experiences of being there! you are nothing but an armchair warrior in regards to the israel/gaza conflict, so i cannot really learn anything from you that couldnt be got online!

Adios

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

1.bp.blogspot.com...
This picture tells a thousand words.

*Pardon me, similar picture was posted recently. Did not see.

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: TheTengriist

*Snip* just trying to be funny?

No, I'm educating you about the history of the Palestinian push for statehood, and pointing out the absurdity of your other two non-arguments.

How people do you know who have donethis?

I can't even imagine what you're trying to say here. How do?

have you ever met anyone for real or did you just read your entire life!

if this is some sort of attempt at an insult, I don't think it worked.

You are really gonna use the 2000 year old person argument!? how old are you?

Quite significantly younger than 2,000, just like everyone else currently drawing breath on the planet. "people of the same religion and possibly similar genetics were living there two millennia ago!" is simply a ridiculous argument for why anyone would be entitled to something today.

Unless you want to argue that gingers have more right to that territory than either Arabs or Jews?

All you anti-semitic ATS'ers i really hope you can one day come to israel and we will go visit Gaza together! I know gaza really well and her people even better.... dont be scared come with me!

Not well enough to even understand basic history around the subject, obviously. And you know that the more you water down the word "antisemitism" the more power you give to actual antisemites, right?

Cos it seems like nothing but the truth will set you free.... so come and witness it like i did... no out of a book or screen but your own 2 eyes!

ofcourse you will never leave your armchair, would you!?

edit on 19/7/14 by JAK because: Personal comments removed. Please see Terms and Conditions of Use section 16) Behaviour and remember to go after the ball, not the player. Thank you

well, I'm not going to spend money i can't afford, to go hang out with a guy whose typed English is barely comprehensible. Especially not in some barbarous country where they think pickles and ketchup on falafel is acceptable.

a reply to: TheTengriist

I'm not going to spend money i can't afford

So you dont put your money where your mouth is.....

I put my life where my mouth is, sorry for not being able to master english the way you did... it doesnt negate the fact that im more experienced than you will ever be about this conflict.... history or no history. despite the fact that religion DOES play pretty much the biggest role of nearly every nation on earth and the way they were formed. you cant change that with your smart talk about genetics, because even though ridiculous it is.... this is the way of the world. so yes, it currently is like you said, all about genetics, unfortunate but true!

But back to the point, palestinians have been abused by pretty much everyone, but as im sure u can agree, change begins from within whether you trying to lose weight , or something bigger like a political movement.

Is it too much to ask for a non extremist government to be put in charge of gaza instead of hamas! sure israel may not be buddhists but they sure aint nazis, and if you think they are then im not wasting my time anymore!

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: TheTengriist

I'm not going to spend money i can't afford

So you dont put your money where your mouth is.....

I put my life where my mouth is, sorry for not being able to master english the way you did... it doesnt negate the fact that im more experienced than you will ever be about this conflict.... history or no history. despite the fact that religion DOES play pretty much the biggest role of nearly every nation on earth and the way they were formed. you cant change that with your smart talk about genetics, because even though ridiculous it is.... this is the way of the world. so yes, it currently is like you said, all about genetics, unfortunate but true!

But back to the point, palestinians have been abused by pretty much everyone, but as im sure u can agree, change begins from within whether you trying to lose weight

, or something bigger like a political movement.

Is it too much to ask for a non extremist government to be put in charge of gaza instead of hamas! sure israel may not be buddhists but they sure aint nazis, and if you think they are then im not wasting my time anymore!

I gotta agree with you. I think Israel should vote out it's neo cons and palistine vote out Hamas. Maybe then they can talk.

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: TheTengriist

I'm not going to spend money i can't afford

So you dont put your money where your mouth is.....

Well, I don't have the money. Unfortunately not all of us live a jet-setting life of luxury and can afford to fly to the other half of the planet just to make a non-point on the internet. Tell you what. You book my flight and sure, let's go visit Khan Younis.

While we're there you can explain to me why you spent three grand to bring me out there. What point are you planning on proving? What argument are you trying to make?

I put my life where my mouth is, sorry for not being able to master english the way you did... it doesnt negate the fact that im more experienced than you will ever be about this conflict.... history or no history. despite the fact that religion DOES play pretty much the biggest role of nearly every nation on earth and the way they were formed. you cant change that with your smart talk about genetics, because even though ridiculous it is.... this is the way of the world. so yes, it currently is like you said, all about genetics, unfortunate but true!

Judging from the content and quality of your posts thus far, I have to conclude that your "experience" has left you painfully ignorant. I'm sorry but simply being in the area doesn't actually make you more credible or informed than people who have put the time and effort into learning the subject - including the history you so blithely dismiss.

But back to the point, palestinians have been abused by pretty much everyone, but as im sure u can agree, change begins from within whether you trying to lose weight

, or something bigger like a political movement.

Is it too much to ask for a non extremist government to be put in charge of gaza instead of hamas! sure israel may not be buddhists but they sure aint nazis, and if you think they are then im not wasting my time anymore!

I don't think I said anything equating Israel to Nazis. Maybe you should stick to arguing against what people actually say rather than what you wish they had said.

a reply to: TheTengriist

I didnt mean to put words in your mouth, dont get it wrong... i just assumed you were one of those ATSers that claim Israel is gassing palestinians in their homes etc etc..... and therefore equate them to nazis! sorry! no harm meant! obviously you aren't!

But it hurts to know how ignorant the world is when they can make judgements about a place they have never visited!

I know the history, i cant write it down. My family and friends lived it! It might feel nice online on ATS to write what you think based on books and history, but the real world is different.

BTW... may i ask... has there ever been a palestinian arab sovereign nation? you seem to know 'history', so please enlighten me.... how many sovereign nation-states have existed in the land now known by the Greco-Roman geographical designation of "Palestine"?

please...

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: TheTengriist

I didnt mean to put words in your mouth, dont get it wrong... i just assumed you were one of those ATSers that claim Israel is gassing palestinians in their homes etc etc..... and therefore equate them to nazis! sorry! no harm meant! obviously you aren't!

No, that is clearly exactly what you intended. Don't worry though, I've dealt with worse, and have ceased to care when someone pulls this on me. It just makes them look bad, not me.

But it hurts to know how ignorant the world is when they can make judgements about a place they have never visited!

I know the history, i cant write it down. My family and friends lived it! It might feel nice online on ATS to write what you think based on books and history, but the real world is different.

The real world is also different from how you "remember" it. memory is full of biases, misjudgements, idealizations, exaggerations, etc. Your brain stores your weighted interpretation of what is presented to you at a given moment. This is a very different thing from "What really happened."

The advantage of study is that it is possible through the collective memories of hundreds, even thousands of people, paired with primary concurrent sources and rigorous application of logic, to filter the events down, to refine and restructure something much closer to objective truth than an individual memory can come up with.

BTW... may I ask... has there ever been a palestinian arab sovereign nation? you seem to know 'history', so please enlighten me.... how many sovereign nation-states have existed in the land now known by the Greco-Roman geographical designation of "Palestine"?

please...

See my prior post upthread.

a reply to: TheTengriist

That post doesnt answer my original quesiton.... it just agrees that there never was a palestinian nation and gives excuses as to why not. can you answer my quesiton?

furthermore, you really try to impress with your english language skills.... i understand what you are saying. but its fancy talk to someone who has been in the war we are debating! sorry but the real world is not 'different' form how i remember it.
you are over analyzing something very simple - that witness and experience dictate the story not the other way round. I acted and you read the story!

but we can agree to disagree.... since you obviously cannot ansewr my quesiton!